A week and a half ago I was injured in Jiu Jitsu class.  I was working with a guy who I probably should have avoided rolling with.... he'd already wrenched my neck going too hard with a guillotine choke the week before... and, once again, the f&ck#r wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing.  He had two options that he was supposed to be drilling on and I was aiding him by being the "dummy" in his open guard.  He couldn't get the arm bar or the triangle so what does he do?  Flips me over his head and then tries to go for the mount.  Well, my hand was still holding onto his gi pants (because it was unexpected and I was trying to be compliant... you're not supposed to defend if you're trying to aid someone in an excercise) and his knee put me into an inadvertent wrist lock and his weight came down on it... SNAP!!!... wrist is all messed up now.  [:(]  

Went to the doc the next day and they x-rayed it.  Then sent the film to a radiologist.  I've been in a temp splint for a week and a half now but they say it's not fractured.  (Although with all the cracking noises it was making when I was moving it, my mom who's an RN thinks they missed something on the film and that it is broken.)  

Long story short... it's just going to take time but I still don't know exactly what's wrong with it.  I have a lot of tingling and numbness when I move it... taking ibuprofen for that.  It burns when I type too much which is not good since I work on a computer.  Oh... and my workout schedule has gone to crap.  Can't do any upper body strength work because it won't bear any weight and any impact (running) jars it even when I have it in the splint.  

Martial arts class is out of the question but I have a couple questions that I'd like to hear y'all's opinions on.  

One, I pay $80 a month for Muay Thai classes and I can't go now because I was injured in class.  I kind of feel like I shouldn't have to be financially punished for that... I know that injuries occur but this guy has already established a history of going too hard and causing injury before.  My co-worker who is also an instructor and black belt in Tae Kwondo about lost it when he heard what had happened.  He was angry that the guy wasn't AT LEAST asked to sit out the class.  

Two, I think I need to talk to my instructor about two specific individuals who have been too rough in class and hurt me a couple times.  One is, of course, the Jiu Jitsu jerk.  

The other is a guy in my Muay Thai class that, on one occasion when I was holding Thai pads for him, kicked WAY too high, went over the top of the pads and kicked me in the head.  Then two weeks ago we were knife sparring and he stabbed me right below the eye (scared the sh*t out of me) with his wooden training knife.  I had faked high and then went low and to the right and he said told our instructor that I "just ran into it."  Tell me this... if you stand directly in front of someone and they lean down and to your left and you stab them in the face, what was your original target??  My body was never over there.... hmmm...

Like I said, I'm just frustrated.  I don't deal with down time due to injury well.  Thanks for letting me vent and for what I'm sure will be sage advice. [;)]  

chinese herbalist for the wrist. voodoo for the classmates.

Just shoot the two a-holes.  You'll feel better.[:)]

Short of that, refuse to work with them in the future - period, end of story.  

If you practice martial arts, you're going to suffer some injuries.  However, from your description these two are idiots and dangerous.  Avoid them.  

And get a second opinion on your wrist.  X-rays aren't the best for detecting soft-tissue damage.

How bout talking with your instructor and seeing if he could do something about it. Not really being a tatell tale, but rather voicing your concern. You are there to learn and paying his salary.

When I taught Kempo, and saw one student going a bit hard, specially if he is in the higher belts and doing it to lower belt, I would set up a private lesson for him. Give him a taste of his own medicine so to speak. If that did not work, I would sit him down a have a talk with him and keep a watch during class time. Most of the time, one private lesson is enough. [;)] I had one guy that was very competitive and hated to lose, so he would always take it up a notch so that he would not lose. Well I had a private lesson with him and took my game to the top notch. Half way thru the lesson, he did not want to spar any more and just wanted to work on forms. Later we went out for some snacks and I told him that he was getting a lil out of hand in class. Too competitive and that it should be a learning experience for everyone not just him. After that he became a model student and became my asst. instructor for the kids class.

DEFINATELY talk to the instructor about these guys!  If they want to throw in some "street fighting", then they're in the wrong type class.

Hope this isn't a long term injury for you.
Keep pressing the docs for answers if symptoms continue.

Find a new Hobbie.Even with "protective gear" on I was tired of taking shots in the nads.To bad I did'nt figure out earlier my interest in this was all ego driven.I even rid myself of the Nanchuks after a sweaty work out that left me knocked out and bleeding because of sweaty hands........

Give up ju-jitsu and try tai chi

mug

I'm not giving it up.... LOL  Injuries happen, I just have to be smarter about it in the future.

Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions, though.  

If you are frustrated, maybe I can help.  Let me know.

Have you approached them about not paying until you are healed?

I haven't talked to my instructor since it happened.  I'm really a bit frustrated about a lot of things (and, no, hielo.. not like that! LOL).

If a student was injured when I was leading a class, I'd check on them... especially if they hadn't showed up for class since it happened and almost two weeks had passed.  

He already knows that I am looking to move to KY and, even though it's a year long contract, he's intimated that he might let me out of it.  It makes me wonder if, because he's trying to build his school and he knows I'm leaving that's why he's not coming down on these guys for what's happening.  I don't know.  He's a nice guy and a great instructor... just that this other stuff bothers me.  I'm not joking when I say that guy came centimeters from popping my eyeball.  

And, lest anyone think I'm being a weinie, I never took any time off when I broke my toe... waited just long enough for my nose to stop bleeding when it got busted before I went back to rolling... kept knife sparring after I made sure I wasn't seriously hurt... even tried to finish my endurance round during testing when my contact popped out by putting it in my mouth and continuing.... but when I HEARD my wrist snap, I stopped.  My instructor looked at it and told me to just roll with another guy.  The general opinion, which is wrong, is that if it doesn't swell and bruise immediately, it isn't broken.  I couldn't even grip the other guy's gi.  I sat out the rest of class and took notes on what they were practicing.  

When I listen to myself repeat what happened, I know what I would tell someone else....that what happened was negligence on the part of the instructor.  But it's hard when he's a decent person, ya know?

My oh my!  What can happen when things get taken out of context!  [8D]  Hope you heal fast and return to the mat, soon.

MM,

you need to seriously evaluate how 'hard' you are working out in your sessions.

then you need to discuss this with your instructor ASAFP.

after years of Muay Thai, Kali, Wing Chun, Judo, & Tae Kwon Do, i never picked up any serious injuries beyond bloody noses, racked balls, and the occasional lights getting knocked out when i wasn't doing what i was supposed to be doing.  heh.

When I was training in Martial Arts we were given a time credit for any injuries that kept us out for any length of time.
As for injuries, last year I had a x-ray and MRI done that didn't reveal anything but a bone scan showed where my toe bone had broken and separated, causing the swelling in my foot. Get a second opinion.
You're always going to run into the overly aggresive person in class. Differrent schools have different ways to deal with it. Definitely speak to your instructor.
Good luck. Train hard.

Please elaborate... I'm going as hard as is dictated by the instructor.  In fact, I'm very defensive when I roll in Jiu Jitsu... I'm not aggressive at all until I see something that I definately know I can do.    

I feel like it's the people I'm sparring/rolling with (these two guys) who are going WAY too hard.  Right after it happened I was saying out loud how I'm just tired of getting hurt and one of the blue belts in class said (in front of the guy) "It's because [he] has no control."  

I'd already spoken with another instructor, who is now gone, about the Muay Thai guy.  In fact, that guy's friend even told me not to take what he does personally because that guy has a skewed view of women.

My husband and I studied hard-style martial arts when we were in our teens through 30s.
2 decades down the road, we are still having problems with old injuries from our classes.

To be effective, students sparring with other students becomes somewhat unpredictable; injuries are quite common even among the higher ranks. Unintentional full contact happens. Certain techniques actually are destructive, also. Hard locked kicks ruin knee joints. Some arts gradually destroy your joints and ligaments, like classical ballet and hard style martial arts.
Getting hurt becomes a known risk factor.

Save your body. Someday you will need it.
Look at the joint and ligament damage on the teachers. Notice how they all have "old injuries"? Knees, shoulders and hands, usually. No fun, even if you *can* predict the weather.

"If I had known I was gonna live this long, I would have taken better care of myself". [:D]

Unarmed defense is a wonderful skill to know, but I have found it much easier to just keep a nice handgun around.

I don't do martial arts as they just don't interest me, but my twin has for about 15 years.  He started in jiu jitsu but after two separated shoulders due to psycho classmates he gave up and went wing chun.  His biggest complaints are the psychos in the classes always trying to injure someone.  He tells me he sees the girls targeted quite often.  

He's actually given some of them payback, as back when he was a student someone pulled a cheap shot and the instructor said, "He just asked you a question, how are you going to answer it?"  My brother put the guy down HARD.  The instructor turned to the guy and asked him if he had anymore questions to ask. [:)]

I hate punk asses who have something to "prove".

Isn't that a perfect reason to take something personal?  

ROTFLMAO.... If I took it personal everytime a man had a skewed view of women I wouldn't even be on this site.... [:D]

Miss_Magnum You did not mention any bruising or swelling, was there any?

THISISME

Have you ever thought about doing Judo rather than Jiu Jitsu?  It's much easier on the joints, face, etc.  Judo, the gentle way.

You have a couple options:

You can do nothing, which solves nothing.

You can quit the class, asking your instructor to be let out of your contract and recoop whatever your fee you can get back.  He's indicated that he may be willing to do this, so this is a way out of it.  You're busy with moving, etc. and you're hurt and not training as it is.  As you pointed out, there's no sense in paying for what you aren't getting.

You can talk to your instructor about what's been happening.  If you're always getting hurt, and others aren't, you're either doing something wrong, or someone else is.  Let the instructor know and let him figure it out.  

I'd talk to the instructor first.  Just put it in a way that is more of a concern for getting hurt rather than being out to get anyone.  You can always quit the class later if it doesn't look like it's going to solve anything.  I would not continue anything that gets you hurt without trying to do something at least.  Not saying you can't take a shot or are a wuss, but like Hannah-Reitsch said, that wrist's gonna visit you again when you're older.  

Ross

A little bruising and swelling but not an obscene amount.  Mostly it was this really sickening CRACK!! when I rotate my wrist.  It's not as bad anymore but it still feels "crunchy" inside when I do some stuff.

I chose Jiu Jitsu because I find it's a useful, practical art.  In Judo, you can have someone in a submission hold that is worth points in competition but will get your a$$ whooped on the street. [:D]

I've already talked to another person (actually a student instructor there) and him and I are both going to vocalize our concerns.  Apparently I'm not the only one who's been expressing thoughts that a couple people are going too hard.

OK as a Sensei, I would be watching for situations as you describe. I have known male students and instructors that do not believe women can do martial arts. My Sensei was one of them. No women were allowed inthe dojo.

I also saw when a guy was weak, some senior studets would go hard on them to get them to quit.

My wife who is also a Sensei, went through it with her first Sensei. I know of him , he is awacko, she was one of two females to survive him and his students. They would do everything to break someone and if that person was not as tough as them, harass them to quit. Like the Cobra Dojo on the Karate Kid.

I have taught for over 20 years, I was one of the first to open my doors and drag women in... proving to them that they could do it.
As for any male student that was brutal or less respectful to a woman or any student, it would have been hit the pike. But I guess my students reflected my attitudes as they werer all friends in the art.

The Sensei is responsible for your injuries as he appears to not have his class under control. Talk to ETH about that. As for you, your health is more important, take the time to heal, then work out slow. If he does not bother to conact you, look for another dojo.

Martial arts are more than hurting people, they are about learning about yourself and about others. The tough guys don't last long.

If you have any questions or want to talk, email me.

Accidents happen, but in every sport, football, soccer, wrestling, whatever, there are always guys who like to hurt people or show off. When we were in high school, we had our own "attitude adjustment" team to take care of those types. But if the head honcho isn't doing his job, he doesn't deserve your money. Remember, when it's all said and done, you're still the customer and it's your money that funds his porn collection.

Miss_Magnum It sounds like you may have damaged one or more of the many connecting soft tissues in your wrist. If this is so it is very hard to find in an xray or MRI for that matter and even if it could be found it most likely could not be fixed.

I have was similarly injured 19 years ago and it still pops/cracks and grinds today with repeated flexing or bending of the wrist the pain still comes right back though not as severe.

These guys are dangerous A-holes and you have every right to be angry with them. Regardless of how things work out with the instructor do not train with these guys again.

I had a lot of swelling and bruising so your wrist will likely heal better than mine did. But it still sounds like it’s going to be a nagging permanent injury inflicted by the worst kind of jerk.


Never wrestle with Pigs. You will just get dirty and besides, the Pigs like it.

All the best to you.

THISISME  

Damn.
I guess when you asked Waverunner "Ya wanna roll", you really [b]DID[/b] mean [i]"roll"[/i], and not [i]"roll"[/i]...

Anyway...
Boo-Hoo.
You wanna play with the boys, expect to get hurt like boys do.
All that "KEY-YAH" bullshit is entertaining until it gets real for a half a second.
Keep this in mind too. Most men would assume die than lose at anything to a woman.
So, should you ever find yourself at any sort of advantage while "sparring", that that is the point where you are in the most danger of getting your nose "accidently" broken, or a few ribs "accidently" cracked.
Speaking for myself, if I were physically sparring with a woman, I would MUCH rather send her home crying with a black eye than lose to her in front of people for the sake of "sport"...

I think the only guys who are afraid to lose to a woman are the kind with 1 inch dicks and the mindframe that goes along with it.

Let her kick your ass, then while she is giving you a sponge bath to get over the brutal beating she just laid on you, make your move.

The worst that can happen is a pity fuck, which in the schemke of things, is pretty damn good.

Ouch!

I'm sorry that had to happen, Miss_Magnum.  I was out of Aikido for several months because the same thing happened, except with my knee.  Someone lost the technique and started panicking.  Then my knee went "POP".

I have found that this stuff never happens with instructors or more experienced students.  It's always the inexperienced, frustrated students who try to force a technique.  Hell, I've been the frustrated student enough times to know.  I still don't know what the best way to avoid a certain training partner is; it's so dependent on the dojo you're in.

The best thing I've found so far when training with one 13 year old kid in my Budo Taijutsu class is to keep trying to get him to slow down.  Otherwise, he's really jerky and panics; sometimes he comes close to really doing damage because I've opened myself up to let him get the feel for the technique.  Whenever that stuff starts, I always ask him to go very slowly through the movement until he feels comfortable with it.  Then the chances of him doing something stupid and painful are greatly reduced.

That "ohmygodihavetohurtthisperson" reaction is great in a real confrontation, but you have to find ways around it in class or you run out of training partners.

Nah. I'd better not.

Deleted.

She went to train with men and found that they were only little boys in men’s clothing desperately looking for affirmation of others and willing to do anything to get it.

After reaching a certain place of maturity most people could care less what people other than family and a few close friends think and could care less about someone else’s macho expectations are of them.

THISISME

Someone, quick, McUzi is off of his medication again!

Nurse, 20c.c. of thorazine, quickly!

Edited: McUzi, you should be faster next time, I saw it.  

I saw it to!

THISISME

Well said.  

Get a second opinion on the wrist.  Talk to an orthopedist not a GP.  A sports medicine specialist would be even better.

Talk to the instructor.  If the instructor doesn't seem to take your complaint seriously, require a refund on the remainder of the contract and get out.

If your hand is seriously injured and you can develop intelligence that the individual in question has a reputation for going too hard in training or going especially hard on women (i.e. may have been trying to hurt you)  Get a lawyer and sue the buggers ass off.  The trick is that you must prove a pattern of excessive force and intentional injuries.

Good luck.

I have a wrist that makes crunchy sounds when I rotate it.  Doesn't hurt much though.


Talk to an ortho or a sport's medicine ortho to get a really well informed opinion.

Hopefully you can find a school in Kentucky that has less testosterone nut jobs walking around.  

Your're a big girl MM and some jackass guys may be intimidated by it.  I'm not gettin' into why.

My ankle was screwed up while riding a snowmobile when I was youger.  It folded while sparring a couple years a go reinjuring it.  I can feel it as I type this.  It will never be the same. Just a thing to consider.

I don't think the guy in Jiu Jitsu class was exacted intimidated by me. ::wry grin::

I'm not joking when I say that not two minutes before the injury occurred he was telling me how "hot" I looked when I had come into class (I came from work... changed into my gi there.)  

Dumbass has a funny way of trying to impress a woman.  [rolleyes]

you owe me a new keyboard it had a iced tea bath..

*cleans out the keyboard*

Two in the chest, one in the head.

_____________________________________________
Of all the gin joints in all the towns in
all of the world...she has to walk into mine.

-Humphrey Bogart

i'm sitting here with a broken foot, on crutches...and i'm supposed to feel sorry for YOU?!?!?! heheheh!

i hope your wrist heals up quickly. in the mean time, go kick mr. studly in the groin.

Gunner1x,

Um... little drama queen in you or what?  [:p]

Campy,

What the crap did you do?!?  

Miss_Magnum go see a specialist, you don't want a fracture or break to heal wrong, once healed it's hard to correct.

"Campy,

What the crap did you do?!?"

18 year old brain meets 49 year old body. guess which won?

shoot me an email and i'll tell you all the hysterical details...ross will get a good laugh out of it!

Sounds like a median nerve problem (especially if the symptoms are in the first 3 digits and half of the fourth).  Your typing probably predisposed you to it, and the injury probably pushed you over the threshold.  Anyway, I'd worry about it if the symptoms become constant rather than intermittent.  I'd get a wrist splint (any surgical store would carry it) and wear it for a while.

Disclaimer:  Just a friendly advice, not a medical one.

PbRx

the "hardness" of your session is dictated by you and your partner/opponent.

when i spar with new people, there is always a light, feeling-out period so both people know where the limits are.

when in class, this is all your instructor's responsibility, along with the more experienced students.

if there are students who cannot go that hard, your instructor should know it.  he should adjust accordingly.

some who have posted above have said the same thing.  you just have to figure out if the instructor is good enough at keeping you safe, or is willing to try harder than this.

AFAIK, you're pretty new to the game, but an avid student.  you've got many years to enjoy the training if you do it right.

you should try to assess whether "Teacha Mah-k" is up to your standards as a pupil.

be well.  heal fast.  

scott

Submission hold for points?  How about pinning someone down for 30 seconds.  Harder than it sounds.  Or till their arm breaks, or they black out.  I was showing a Tai Qwan Do (sic) friend of mine a blood choke in college...he was to tap my arm when I should release....7 seconds later I released and he went to the floor.  Some people just have to try to be macho.