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Posted: 7/19/2002 11:30:19 AM EDT
[#1]
News reports today said that the gun show vendors were NOT allowed to carry guns. I cannot remember a gun show where vendors were allowed to carry any kind of locaded weapon. If the vendor had a loaded gun, he was violating the gun show's rules.
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Posted: 7/19/2002 11:50:49 AM EDT
[#2]
The father has enough to deal with the death of his son and if the vendor was the shooter the guy should fess up.
For the life of me I still don't understand why the vendor had his gun out of the holster anyway. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 11:54:51 AM EDT
[#3]
So do you think it was the vendor or father? are they both saying they didnt do it? I dont understand why this is not clear.
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:00:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: News reports today said that the gun show vendors were NOT allowed to carry guns. I cannot remember a gun show where vendors were allowed to carry any kind of locaded weapon. If the vendor had a loaded gun, he was violating the gun show's rules. This confuses me too. Eastmans web site states that no one is allowed to carry a loaded firearm, but the last I read was that he was legally allowed to carry a loaded weapon. And even though it's stated on Eastman's website that they aren't I know that every Eastman show I've been to, the vendors have had loaded firearms. The question is, why was the vendor unholstering a loaded firearm, or why did the father have a loaded firearm. I'm not sure, but I'm betting it was the vendors firearm and the question the police have is who had it in their hands when the trigger was pulled. From what I understand, the vendor may have handed the loaded firearm to the father at one point or another. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:04:34 PM EDT
[#5]
If we are passing along scuttlebutt, I heard from another FFL attending the show that after the shot went off and the kid began screaming, a male voice was heard saying "Oh my God, I shot that kid."
Apparently, everyone that was close by heard it, but was trying to help and/or diverting more attention to the kid and couldn't verify who said it, and everyone farther away who heard wasn't close enough to actually see who said it, hence the back-and-forth testimony the police were collecting. Take from that what you will. the_reject |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:28:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Today's fish wrapper reports the cops are saying they may never know who shot the kid. The dealer and the father are telling conflicting stories, there were no other eye-witnesses, bystander testimony is conflicting, and evidence was destroyed (the holster).
The father had powder burns on his shoulder where a holster might be located. I think the father shot the kid with the dealer's gun negligently, not checking the dealer's gun first. That's my theory, FWIW. What a crock of shit. [pissed] |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:31:18 PM EDT
[#7]
According to today’s Atlanta Constitution article it was the vendors gun that killed the boy.
Either it hasn't been determined who was in control of the .38 when it discharged or the PD hasn't released that info yet. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:34:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: What a crock of shit. [pissed] That's for sure. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:36:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Well, I guess it's time to break out the rubber hoses. One of these guys is gonna break, so they need to [i]sweat[/i].
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:36:24 PM EDT
[#10]
I posted this in the other thread, but IMO the dealer is guilty of negligent manslaughter for handing a loaded weapon to a customer. Dad may have negligently discharged the weapon, and if he did he shares some responsibilty for not clearing the weapon himself, but the numbnuts who was handling the loaded weapon in the first place is absolutely at fault for not clearing it before it left his hands.
He would not want me on his jury. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 12:47:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: "Oh my God, I shot that kid." the_reject |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 1:24:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: "Oh my God, I shot that kid." the_reject That's what I thought, too. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 1:50:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: . . but the numbnuts who was handling the loaded weapon in the first place is absolutely at fault for not clearing it before it left his hands. The vendor should have checked to be sure the gun wasn't loaded, this blatant oversight caused someone to die and he will have to live with it for the rest of his life. I teach my children, if anyone hands you a gun with the action closed, and myself included; YOU must open the action and check for yourself, and unload if necesary before handling it. For myself the rule is, I always open the action and unload if necessary and hand a gun to someone else with the action open. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 1:56:45 PM EDT
[#14]
"Compounding the contradicting stories, Kissel said, is the fact that some evidence was lost or destroyed at the crime scene, including the holster Grant was preparing to buy."
Did the father get rid of the holster because he fired the shot and it would implicate him or did the vendor get rid of the holster because it would implicate him? I might be wrong but I think it was the vendor if what has been disclosed so far is accurate. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 2:06:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Warlord: That's the way I was taught when I was a kid and I taught my kids and others the same way. Open the action, clear the chamber(s) and or magazine and visually inspect depending on the type of firearm. In low light you can use your pinky to feel for a round in the chamber and magazine.
This crap makes us all look bad. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 6:45:31 PM EDT
[#16]
I find it hard to believe a father would shoot his kid and then try claim someone else did it.
I also find it hard to believe the father would take the time, or have the presence of mind, to hide or destroy the holster as his son lies dying on the floor. Plus, obviously, the father can’t sue himself - so he wouldn’t be trying to protect himself from that. It all points to the vendor. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 7:24:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I find it hard to believe a father would shoot his kid and then try claim someone else did it. I also find it hard to believe the father would take the time, or have the presence of mind, to hide or destroy the holster as his son lies dying on the floor. Plus, obviously, the father can’t sue himself - so he wouldn’t be trying to protect himself from that. It all points to the vendor. pretty much my thoughts too, if you just shot your son you wouldn't be thinking about any of that except maybe offing yourself for being such an ass, the vender on the other hand has an interest to destroy evidence and lie like hell. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 7:37:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Warlord: That's the way I was taught when I was a kid and I taught my kids and others the same way. Open the action, clear the chamber(s) and or magazine and visually inspect depending on the type of firearm. In low light you can use your pinky to feel for a round in the chamber and magazine. This crap makes us all look bad. I totally agree. I was taught to first clear and check the weapon yourself before handing it to someone else with the action open, and then INSIST that they check the weapon themselves before handling it further. I will likewise ask a person showing me a gun to clear and check the weapon and I will again verify upon taking possession. It is always a good idea to ask the owner to clear the weapon in case you are not familiar with it's design, and showing someone how to check that the weapon is not loaded will allow them to verify. Safety will not be compromised. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 7:38:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I find it hard to believe a father would shoot his kid and then try claim someone else did it. I also find it hard to believe the father would take the time, or have the presence of mind, to hide or destroy the holster as his son lies dying on the floor. Plus, obviously, the father can’t sue himself - so he wouldn’t be trying to protect himself from that. It all points to the vendor. I was thinking the same thing, except my lawyerly sick mind came up with that there was a POTENTIAL for him abusing the crime scene so he could eventually sue the dealer. Now in my normal thinking mind, I can't imagine a father shooting his son and having the presence of mind to do anything but hold his son while help came. My bet is on the dealer, especially after all of the hear say you guys posted here! Now they have to get the witnesses to ID the voice that said "I shot that kid." I'm betting all I've got that it wasn't dad, atleast I'm hoping it wasn't. |
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Posted: 7/19/2002 7:48:33 PM EDT
[#20]
i dont think there would have been time for anyone to screw with the evidence. i went to that show(i wasnt there when it happened) 3 cops at the front door and i saw a couple more walking around. one was a GA state trooper who had gotten off shift at 8am, still in uniform looking at AR parts. police response to the scene HAD to be less than one minute.
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Posted: 7/19/2002 11:01:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: … if you just shot your son you wouldn't be thinking about any of that except maybe offing yourself for being such an ass… Sadly, that reminds me of an incident quite a few years ago where a guy took his son hunting. The guy took a shot at what he thought was a deer (probably movement in the bushes) and killed his son – the next round he fired was into his own head. (Always felt real sorry for the mother in that one!) Quoted: ... I was thinking the same thing, except my lawyerly sick mind came up with that there was a POTENTIAL for him abusing the crime scene so he could eventually sue the dealer. ... Anything’s possible, I guess. In theory, he might have even taken his kid to the show with the intent of rigging a shooting and suing the vendor (however, that scenario would be a little more credible if the victim was his wife, mother-in-law, etc.). About the best we can do here is look at likely explanations – though granted any good LEO will always consider the more remote explanations, too. Quoted: i dont think there would have been time for anyone to screw with the evidence. … But by the above accounts, it appears the holster was lost or destroyed in this brief time. Someone worked very quickly and coolly. Again, it points to the vendor. |
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Posted: 7/24/2002 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Any update on this? I couldn't find anything online about it.
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Posted: 7/24/2002 5:51:07 PM EDT
[#23]
^
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Posted: 7/24/2002 6:09:16 PM EDT
[#24]
I saw an article today, but damned if I can find it. I think it said the gun belonged to the guy who was selling stuff and he was doing something with a holster. Apparently each guy claims the other had the gun when it discharged.
here it is-old article tho 7/19 [url=]http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/0702/18gunshow.html[/url] |
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Posted: 7/24/2002 6:20:18 PM EDT
[#25]
What a screwed up situation. This is just a guess but if the father had shot his kid he'd have felt so bad and admitted it up front. What worse thing could happen to a father? The dealer is the one who stands to gain by lying! The father wouldn't say "I just shot THAT kid". I agree with Balzac and 199, to think otherwise just doesn't add up.
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Posted: 7/25/2002 5:41:43 AM EDT
[#26]
You would think that if the vendor killed the kid then the father would be screaming bloody murder.
Why would he protect the vendor even though the shooting appears unintentional? I think they both somehow had their hands in this act. |
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Posted: 7/25/2002 6:00:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I posted this in the other thread, but IMO the dealer is guilty of negligent manslaughter for handing a loaded weapon to a customer. He would not want me on his jury. Neither would I.... |
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Posted: 7/25/2002 6:16:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Hey Sweep, any update to this incident?
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Posted: 7/25/2002 6:18:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Some stupid bitch wrote the Atlanta Urinal Constipation that this proves that guns kill. She said that since they don't know who pulled the trigger, it MUST have gone off by itself. Are the anti-gunners this ignorant? Never mind, that answer is obvious.
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Posted: 7/25/2002 6:33:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Yes every time I open my safe my guns are so happy to see me they start firing in every direction. I'm lucky to be alive!
I thought NY had the market cornered on stupid bitches. One must have escaped! [:D] |
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