In also.  Seven posts is my guess.

Make it three! [bounce]

Not my forum. [bounce]

lock in 8

unless the word ASSCLOWN is used.

King's X!

Four!!

Wait lemme post some porn links before this gets locked.

me to, but untill then go jrzy go. I havent seen a ripping like this in a long time.

I don't think "put up or shut up" constitutes a flame, does it?

Personally, I hope there's no lock--I can't wait to see the response.

Nine and counting.....guess I was wrong.  drat.

The way I read it Jrzy is right, unless the person gives false information.  But, then, how do you know it is false unless you have a way to verify it (i.e. ID)?  

Oh, who cares?  Can't we all just get along??

Lockity, lockity, lock, lock.

It won't matter soon anyways, after we all get the new national ID chip.  They'll just scan you as they stop your car, and get your ID info that way.  

Simply speeding is considered a criminal offense? I thought it was somewhat less than something that an LEO would need a witness for. Sounds to me like jrzy is still winning this one.

I say locked in 20.

Dang!  go to the pawn shop (picking up new toys) for a couple of hours and look who starts up.
Somebody's winning?  I wasn't aware this was a race.  

Nice job of selective editing there. I really hope you're not doing this from work.

Jrzy,  one last time.  I'll give you a scenario and we'll see if it gets through.

I come around a street corner.  In front of me is one guy face up on the sidewalk with a knife in his neck.

Standing there also are 4 guys. They may be murderers, they may be witnesses. They may be just some Joe that came along after the crime.

None of them will produce ID when asked.


What now happens?

1.  Golly Gee,  won't solve this one.  You all might as well go home.  Guess I'd better head back to the substation early to turn in the bike.  Jrzy saws I can't do what I've been doing since 1983.

2.  Everybody but the guy on the pavement goes downtown for Failure to ID. Any charges related to the murder come later after questioning. Guy on the pavement becomes the property of the medical examiner.

Now, question. Think really hard. Of the five guys,  who had their rights violated?

Jrzy,  I've had it with you. I will however, clear up the question from Gus.

I'm not sure about all states,  but in Texas,  there are two sets of laws, or "codes" concerned here.

Texas Penal Code,  (TPC)  this covers things like murder, robbery, etc. Things listed in the TPC are criminal offenses. This can be either a misdemeanor or a felony, fine or jail or both.

It also carries most of what you need for probable cause, warrant requirements and such in attachments.

Texas Traffic Code,  (TTC) covers things like speeding or running a stop sign.  Most of these offenses except for a few dealing with destruction of property,  are civil offenses. Fine only.  

Cities do have a limited authority to modify some of these traffic laws to an extent to suit their particular needs. Designate rules for one way streets, set fines, that sort of thing.

Now.  Just to let you all know before Jrzy goes off accusing me of cowardice and other things,  I'm going fishing in Port Aransas for my days off. I'm leaving early in the AM.
I'll be back Sunday afternoon.

Now for the important stuff!  

I scored two rifles.  A sporterized 30/40 Krag in a Monte carlo stock, (G-VG) and a 1903A3 Springfield. (VG with a 1944 barrel date) the only problem is the 03A3 is missing the front sight.

Cost altogether was 322$. This is the same place I picked up a Custom Swedish Mauser last month for 180$.  Man do I love pawn shops!!

Johninaustin,(john is also my name by the way)
the orginal thread that this was from was this,
"Here's the question
You are passenger in a car that has been stopped for a moving violation.
You have done nothing wrong and you are wearing your seatbelt.
The officer looks at you in the back seat and asked you for your ID.
First,what do you do?
Second what do you think your rights are if you refuse to give him your ID.
(and forget the answer ,cooperate so friend does not get the ticket,pretend you don't like the guy driving)"

Of course you have the right to get someones ID if you are looking into a crime and a whole host of other situations,but we were talking about a traffic stop,nothing more and nothing less than Iding a passenger on a traffic stiop.
You have a very tough job to do and i (beileve it or not I am on your side.
I have come to the aid of an officer in trouble several times in my life and i saved an officers life once,(from being struck from behind with a 2x4.)
I helped subdue a guy that was trying to get a state troopers gun out of his holster once also.
You see it's not you or your job that i have a problem with,it's the eroding of our rights that has me worried.
Ok i hope that you understand that i am not anti LEO and that i try and help as much as can when i can.
And just for the record i would give the cop my ID now ,unless he is being a scumbag.

Too late - they've already resolved everything so there's no need for a lock anymore!!!!



Johninaustin - thanks for the clarification. I had only seen the part about the traffic stop. In the other scenario, OF COURSE you are right to demand identities, meaning identification or at least confirmable verbal information.

Glad this is all cleared up!

Selective editing? John, why dont you show us what jrzy "edited out" that allows you to demand ID from a passenger on a whim, or do you just make up laws as you go?

Just a thought to ponder, and then I really have to get things ready for tomorrow AM.  It's a 4 hour drive from here and I want to be on the boat ramp by 7am.

No one knows what a "simple traffic stop" is until it's done.

Both individuals involved,  (stopper and stoppee). Bring information to the scene unknown by the other. This dictates how people respond.

You may consider it a simple traffic stop for running a light.

The officer considers it a stop of a vehicle that matches the description given of a guy seen trying to force kids into his car, that just ran a red light.

Now, imagine what happens when the guy won't identify or becomes verbally evasive.

Police carry what are called BOLO sheets.  (Be On The Lookout For)  These are apart from the stolen (hot) sheet.

Last night my BOLO list had 43 vehicles and about as many known individuals on it.

 Everything from driveby's and kidnappings to some guys stealing real estate signs.

 I made  7 stops for traffic last night, two arrests. ( Hot check warrants and a parole violation)  All but one vehicle was a match for a BOLO.  

Can I just walk up to someone and ask them who they are?

Sure.  

Can they refuse me?

Sure.

But here's the rub.  

I don't do that, and don't know anyone who does.

If I ask you to identify, we're at a crossroads.  Something has alerted me to the possibility you may be more than just some average dude.  I need your help in determining whether I'm correct or not.

This exact scenario is how McVeigh, Kenneth McDuff, and others were caught. Somebody asked them to identify themselves, and the situation didn't add up.

I don't think i edited out anything ,thats why i posted the link ,so that you guys could read the law for yourselves.

Just an observation, 6 out of 7 seems to have a possible criminal element. As a juror, I'm not buying it as probable cause. I'm viewing it as an excuse. 1 out of seven and it would be the other way around. I am not saying that you didn't have probable cause, but on this info alone you have not proven that you did.