saw this on assault web:

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Have Anti-Father Family Court Policies Led to a Men's Marriage Strike?
By Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson


Kathleen is attractive, successful, witty, and educated. She also can't find a husband. Why? Because most of the men this thirty-something software analyst dates do not want to get married. These men have Peter Pan Syndrome--they refuse to commit, refuse to settle down, and refuse to "grow up."

However, given the family court policies and divorce trends of today, Peter Pan is no naive boy, but instead a wise man.

"Why should I get married and have kids when I could lose those kids and most of what I've worked for at a moment's notice?" asks Dan, a 31 year-old power plant technician who says he will never marry. "I've seen it happen to many of my friends. I know guys who came home one day to an empty house or apartment--wife gone, kids gone. They never saw it coming. Some of them were never able to see their kids regularly again."

The US marriage rate has dipped 40% over the past four decades, to its lowest point ever. There are many plausible explanations for this trend, but one of the least mentioned is that American men, in the face of a family court system which is hopelessly stacked against them, have subconsciously launched a "marriage strike."

It is not difficult to see why. Let's say that Dan defies Peter Pan, marries Kathleen, and has two children. There is a 50% likelihood that this marriage will end in divorce within eight years, and if it does the odds are two to one that it will be Kathleen, not Dan, who initiates the divorce. It may not matter that Dan was a decent husband--studies show that few divorces are initiated over abuse or because the man has already abandoned the family. Nor is adultery cited as a factor by divorcing women appreciably more than by divorcing men.

While the courts may grant Dan and Kathleen joint legal custody, the odds are overwhelming that it is Kathleen, not Dan, who will win physical custody. Over night Dan, accustomed to seeing his kids every day and being an integral part of their lives, will become a "14 percent dad"--a father who is allowed to spend only one out of every 7 days with his own children.

[red]continued[/red]

Once divorced, odds are at least even that Dan's ex-wife will interfere with his visitation rights. Three-quarters of divorced men surveyed say their ex-wives have interfered with their visitation, and 40% of mothers studied admitted that they had done so, and that they had generally acted out of spite or in order to punish their exes.

Kathleen will keep the house and most of the couple's assets. Dan will need to set up a new residence and pay at least a third of his take home pay to Kathleen in child support.

As bad as all of this is, it would still make Dan one of the lucky ones. After all, he could be one of those fathers who cannot see his children at all because his ex has made a false accusation of domestic violence, child abuse, or child molestation. Or a father who can only see his own children under supervised visitation or in nightmarish visitation centers where dads are treated like criminals.

He could be one of those fathers whose ex has moved their children hundreds or thousands of miles away, in violation of court orders which courts often do not enforce. He could be one of those fathers who tears up his life and career again and again in order to follow his children, only to have his ex-wife continually move them.

He could be one of the fathers who has lost his job, seen his income drop, or suffered a disabling injury, only to have child support arrearages and interest pile up to create a mountain of debt which he could never hope to pay off. Or a father who is forced to pay 70% or 80% of his income in child support because the court has imputed an unrealistic income to him. Or a dad who suffers from one of the child support enforcement system's endless and difficult to correct errors, or who is jailed because he cannot keep up with his payments. Or a dad who reaches old age impoverished because he lost everything he had in a divorce when he was middle-aged and did not have the time and the opportunity to earn it back.

"It's a shame," Dan says. "I always wanted to be a father and have a family. But unless the laws change and give fathers the same right to be a part of their children's lives as mothers have, it just isn't worth the risk."

A best friend of mine got married two years before he got out of the Navy. Went out on WEST
PAC, and came back to find his new wife with a new boyfriend. Slut couldn't keep her legs closed for 6 months. Thank god they didn't have kids.

As soon as I find a woman I can trust I will gladly marry her.

Marriage, I'm sure, is a wonderful thing when it lasts. But there are so many reasons not to get married, that it's truly not even funny.

I told a heart-warming story about this sort of scenario [url=www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=130517&page=1]here[/url].

Men don't marry because women put out way to easily now a days.  Why buy the cow when the milk is free?

Sgtar15

PS 17 years and going strong.

I shared that with my buddy, he got a kick out of it. His didn't go so well. He got fucked over royally as far as his possesitions went.

[:I] You're my new hero! (Okay, you and your two friends.)

I don't even want to get serious with a woman these days.  You piss her off, she claims abuse and gets a restraining order, whether any abuse actually happened or not, and away go your guns.

I would love to be serious with a woman but the truth is I can't risk it. I just haven't found one who's trustworthy and it's a shame.

After going through 2 engagements, I've decided that I can't trust anyone enough to get married.

Um, LarryG, is your sig line picking on my sig line?

The problem is that women simply can not be truster in today's social norms. I was married for 14 years , then got screwed over. Almost got married twice since '85 but have given up . Perhaps I'll find myself a nice widow... someone who stuck by someone thru thick & thin. Not someone who goes the direction of the wind.

That is a beautiful story.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your kind words regarding my exploits in that unfortunate event.

I'm a single dad. My ex has full custody. But asked me to take him. I did and have had him with me since kindergarten. He visits his mom in the summers out of state. I moved out of state after divorce. And the deal included her not paying me any support. So I've raised my son all by myself. He'll be a junior in high school next year. I'm now 39 and still haven't remarried. I have met many women since my divorce. Been divorced for twelve years now. All the women I've dated. Start talking marriage and having kids within two months. So six years ago I've decided. The hell with women. I haven't been on a date in six years. And it dosen't bother me. I just enjoy my life with my son, guns and reloading. And none of them lie to me nor give me any shit. The problem with most marriages. Is one of the partners wants to change the other. Marriage is about letting the other be themselves. So since most women think they have to train there man. That's what took me out of dating. Marriage is only a way for a bitch to have the last laugh.

You people just don't know how to treat a womenz correctly. You don't listen to what they have to say. You don't pay enough attention to them. You don't bother to spend quality time with them.

That is why they leave you.

I'd get married but Tonya Harding has not answered any of my proposals, yet.

And don't forget the flowers. [>(]

Women leave you fellas cause you don't eat it right or don't eat at all.[}:D]

Two words:  Women's Lib.  

That is the root of the problem my friends.  And no, I don't advocate disrespect of women.  But too many have been fooled by liberal society into thinking they can be something they aren't, and taking the focus away from being good women to their men, to their kids, and to society.

Just one more thing to lay at the Liberal's doorstep on the day of reckoning.

good answer...
thats what i think it is too.
my wife left because i couldn't provide for her and because I "subjected" her to the trauma of a car accident.  she doesn't mind that she vowed that we would never even consider divorce, becasue she NOW says that she never knew THIS was going to happen. Well no shit!  Anyways, what does she care, once she is ready to settle down the disgusting mating ritual will commence, another schmuck will fall for the "till death do us part" drop four grand on a ring and countless thousands on the wedding and within five years be asking HIMself "what did I do wrong?"

I support wholeheartedly the rights of women and equal opportunity for women.  Women however do not deserve the power we have given them, as men and as a society.  In Dallas, where I live, I am "expected" to buy a diamond engagement ring.  I bought mine for my wife WHILE I was working through college, because I love her and wanted her to be proud to be my wife.  NOW she says she is going to turn it into a coctail ring like her mother did with hers after her divorce.  IT MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT!

If I ever remarry, my wife will not get an engagement ring until our 25th or 50th anniversary, and thats only if she's deserved the damn thing!

I let my ex keep the engagement ring. I considered it a small price to pay to get her out of my life. I learned that I am too nice. I am now a firm believer in the Tom Leykis method.

After seeing what too many guys go through, you couldn't drag me to the marriage altar if you tied me to the ass-end of an ICBM headed that way.

If this has already been said, please forgive.

Too many men ascribe to the theory "Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free?"

And too many stupid women oblige them.

 yeah...what he said....you got to completely forget your own intrests and serve,$support$,listen to,tell them lies like they dont look fat,and treat a womenz like a god.[:D]

So, I see.....

[img]http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/Imagezz/peter_dancewear3.jpg[/img]

Well, if it's any consolation, a lot of us women are confused about what y'all want anyway.  The sad part is you start getting jaded and then you start messing up on who should be a throw away and who should be a keeper.  

Let me explain... a "throw away" is usually the one who you meet in a bar and get all friendly with the first night (does NOT necessarily mean a one night stand).  A keeper is the one who you go out with and try to get to know before you move to anything else... you're trying to develop a relationship.  

The problem occurs when you mix the two up.  You treat a throw away like a keeper and a keeper like a throw away.  The one you really should have taken your time with has probably written you off just as quickly as you've written them off after your mutual behaviour.  

Some guys will even write you off if they consider you too flirtatious.... and I've always been a flirt (but never a cheater).

Oh.. and before you "free milk" folks start rattling the cage, I don't sleep around. [:p]  

I do, however, go out and play pool at the bars quite a bit and haven't taken anyone I've met there terribly serious.  I figure they're just another guy in a bar.  

Then I consider that they are looking at me like I'm "just another woman at a bar."  Hmmm...    

   

Sounds like most of you got the shaft - sorry to hear it.  However, given the tone of most of the posts, it occurred to me that an alternative opinion is in order.

However bad each of you had it (and it sounds like some was pretty bad), there are a lot of people (including me) who are happily married.

In my view, marriage is having someone to do stuff with.

unfortunately, until most of us got blindsided by the truck that is "fvcked over" we all were in the same boat of marital bliss. at least thats what im guessing.

 When I was a teen I swore I would never get married.  Just be single and live on my own.  Then I fell for a guy.  So we got married and have 3 kids.  

 Would I ever do this again?  No.  For plenty of reasons. The first being that if dh dies or if we divorce I feel I could not date a man, maybe eventually marry him, and tell my kids this is your stepdad.  It seems too unfair to tell them I know you miss your dad but here is a new one.    Another reason would be I would be independent after the kids moved out.  No coffee or cigarettes to buy for someone else. I do not have those habits.  Also no more I am sorry my shopping took too long.  I would have no one to be accountable to.  The last reason is no one would be telling me "It is wrong for you to feel that way."  How I feel is how I feel!! Dammit!! But I try to act on how is the best way to handle this situation, instead of how I feel.  

I had to start dating much older woman to find one mature enough to handle it... She is 11 years older than I am... Been the best relationship I have ever had... I don't know that we will marry or not, but She is good and her kids are wonderful, so even if we don't marry it will be a good life with her...

[flame]Do you really "TRY" to act on how best* to handle the situation instead of how you FEEL*?You shouldnt have to try,its only prudent.Sounds like your headed for the big 'D' sooner or later if'n he's a dh,as you say.[rolleyes]Womminz

Oh man,

Where to start. I've been stabbed in the back by a good number of women. My ex-wife was a prize, I chalked it up to getting married too young. Then dated a couple of non-keepers. Met a beautiful woman, smart, fun, and nuts.  I told myself I should stick by and and try to help her straighten her life out. Ha! You can guess how that turned out. I thought she was evening out, was going to get married, and she stepped off the deep end. So I used the engagement ring as a downpayment for my BMW. Then I said, screw'em, as many as possible. I was so distrusting that about the time one would say that she liked me, I was already gone. A couple of them were nice girls that prob did not deserve to blown off like that. Now I've met a girl I am so in love with, but guess what, she has had her share of crap and doesn't think she wants to get married. By the time we get into our thirties, most of us have so much baggage it is a wonder if any of us make it out of here alive.

Moral of the story, life sucks, buy more guns.

My first girlfriend started talking about marrige after we'd been dating for three months. I told her to slow the heck down. Two weeks later I caught her putting a hole in a rubber, and kicked her to the curb (figuratively speaking). A week after that she was sleeping with the guy in the dorm room next to mine. Thank god I got away from that crazy bitch in time.

I'm a hermit now.

Exactly. I find prenup agreements tacky and would never do one, but this is a legitimate fear among men. I'm 24 in October and have dated the same girl for over 2 years, so I have obviously thought about this stuff.

Problem is, even if you don't get legally married, if you buy a house together and everything else it will be partitioned if you split up. Nevermind who paid for it. And if you have kids, same deal...no different than if you're married. Courts will treat it the same way...guess who gets the kids and guess who gets stuck with the bill.

If I ever become a judge this shit would never fly in my courtroom. He abused you? Let me see your evidence, 911 calls, and disinterested witnesses. He's not a fit father? Maybe that's because he was working 12 hours a day to feed the kids and your good-for-nothing ass.

This sounds insane, but I do admire Judge Judy sometimes. Some woman was falsely claiming that her boyfriend/husband abused her and Judge Judy completely called her out on it. It was beautiful.

My business professor once said when introducing the different types of business...

Now lets talk about the worst type of business, "a partnership"...where each partner has unlimited liability for the other partner and the business.  This obviously has the highest level of individual risk.  Can anyone think of an example of a partnership?...yes, Marriage.

Well...,

This is all very intersting, especially in light of the fact that I'm getting married about 2 months from now. I've known her for 7 years - she was my boss, he he - & have pretty much had a lot of time to evaluate her (& she me) pretty thoroughly. Seh even offereds to sign a pre-nup, even though I never asked. But the real kicker is the fact that [i]she[/i] brings home the bread & [i]I[/i] go to college (again). We both own property, though she's got the bigger stake. Overall, she's a really level-headed person, not too proud to admit to her own foibles, & very responsible (this is an oft-underrated quality). Also not a bad looker, either. Yeah, I think I scored pretty well. Also doesn't hurt that we're both 35.

*****

As far as the courts go, the dominant point of view is aggregiously lopsided in favor of women. That marriage is faltering is no surprise at all. Women are treated very timidly by the courts - family, criminal, or other - & savvy manipulators know this & use it to their advantage. There need to be a major overturning of current legal thought in this regard, but don't hold your breath.

Just for a little perspective: in a recent child-suuport case here in WA State, a lesbian couple was splitting & the one keeping the kids was seeking child support from the other. The kids were born from one of them via artificial insemenation. The ruling judge (a woman) said that [b]child support payments are the responsibility of the biological father (sperm donor)[/b].

A word to the wise, gentlemen - don't even go there.



What he sad.

is part of the problem that "modern" women are backlashing against men (man-whores)that want to f**k as many girls as possible (girls you dont take home to mom), and then settle down with a GOOD girl and get married?
it seems to me that women have traditionaly never had this double standard, but are they now adopting this ?

i think a lot of men want "traditional" women, who take care of the family first, and then career, which American women generally dont do anymore, so men turn to "mail order brides" from other countries to get those values that they want in wife.

i agree that toooooo many people have a lot of baggage, and "modern American" women seem to gain a lot of baggage and problems earlier in life that they need to.

also part of the problem is the new Fad for women "Bi-Curious", today im lesbo, tomorrow im not. of course this peeks the fantasies of every hetero man in the world, but with so many turning lesbo (believing a women can give them things a man cant) this seems to increase the shortage of available women.

a Pre-Nup may be tacky but it will SAVE YOUR ASS, dont get hitched without one.

one of the things i heard on the radio a while ago was that in WA state the divorce laws heavily side in favor of the woman.

the Rumor is in WA state -- if you marry a women who has kids by another man, and then divorce her YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT FOR ANOTHER MANS KIDS -- and people say kalif is f**ked.

"I TRUST MY WIFE 75%" --Malcolm X

Texas divorce courts view women as Mother Mary and men as Money Pumps.

Me too.

You are my hero.

I had a friend from High School that got married and joined the Army shortly after graduation.  The last year or so of his enlistment he was in Europe while his wife lived in Missouri.  She spent every check he sent and even cleaned out their savings. When he got out of the Army and returned home she imediatley asked for a divorce and moved in with her boyfriend. I can understand wanting a divore but she glady accepted the checks while he was out of town and only asked for the divorce after he returned and she knew he would probably find out about her boyfriend.