User Panel
Posted: 7/3/2002 9:55:11 PM EDT
My wife and I live in a rural area. Just after midnight (a few minutes ago), my wife and I were awakened from sleep by a LOUD pounding on the front door of our home. It wasn't a gentle knocking, but hard pounding. We are remodeling our bedroom this week, so we were sleeping in living room on a futon. Upon awakening I could see the left arm of a guy leaning against the porch railing through the bay window while his buddy beat on the door. I instructed my wife to remain quiet, as she had yelled as she woke up to the sound. The banging proceeded again, after which the subjects left the porch and returned to their vehicle. I immediately went to my gun room at the other end of the house. I had no flash light, and had trouble seeing the dial on my safe. I was debating how to go about lighting the dial when the pounding at the door came again, so I went ahead on turned on the light in my gun room. I figured if they saw the light come on, they might think it was my bedroom light coming on as I got out of bed. I retrieved one of my AR-15's, inserted a loaded mag, and went to the front door. I turned on the porch light as my wife said not to open the door. I held the rifle behind the wall next to the door out of sight in my right hand as I opened it with my left hand. A guy standing in front of the door said,"Jeremy ***** doesn't live here, does he?" I replied that he did not. The guy acted very strange, so I moved the AR-15 into his view. Upon seeing the weapon he apologized for disturbing me, and returned to the vehicle. I closed the door and a few moments later the vehicle left. I called the Sheriff's Department to report what had happened. I will be the first to say that I wasn't fully prepared for the situation. I didn't have any firearms out of the safe for personal protection. I had no flashlight handy to facilitate opening the safe and arming myself. I wasn't nervous, but CANNOT really describe what the guy looked like exactly, what he was wearing, or even the type of vehicle. My wife is the one who provided the descriptions to the dispatcher on the phone. What I am about to reveal is where it could have gotten deadly. (A sheriff car just drove by as I type. Not too bad a response time, I guess.) My wife asked after the vehicle left if, while talking to the guy, I saw the second guy hiding in the shadows in my blindspot off the porch to the left in the dark. I did NOT see the second subject. He could have easily surprised me from out of the shadows. I was not fully aware of my surroundings. I thought only one guy was present at that time. Lucky for me (and possibly for them), no attack was initiated by the hidden guy. I feel that the displaying of the evil, black rifle ended what may or may not have been the perpetuation of a crime. Well, I'm off to bed again (with a shotgun). Have a safe and happy Fourth of July.
|
|
You should have ran around back and snuk up behind them and fired a few shots in the air.
Glad everything went ok. Be on gaurd though, now they know you have a cool gun to come back and steel when your gone. |
|
The proper response is to fire fifty+ warning shots into the air....
Scott |
|
Quoted: The proper response is to fire fifty+ warning shots into the air.... Scott View Quote LOL [:D] |
|
Glad everything turned out OK. Legs has it right though...be vigilant!
|
|
All's well that ends well . . . also, keep a bright flashlight (I use a two cell Mag Light)for the additional purpose of shining it in the eyes of your attacker. If you have a mirror at the end of a hallway, look at yourself pointing a shotgun (unloaded, duh) with a flashlight shining at your image. You can't see at all. Then light up an object as an imaginary "attacker" and see the advantage you have. Goodnight, enjoy your Fourth, and be safe. [:)] [USA]
|
|
My wife asked after the vehicle left if, while talking to the guy, I saw the second guy hiding in the shadows in my blindspot off the porch to the left in the dark. I did NOT see the second subject View Quote |
|
... Based on your description, it sounds like maybe a drunk / druggie had mistaken your house for Jeremy's.
... Be careful |
|
[b]M4Madness[/b], for all your gaffs, you've done well. You and your wife are safe, the baddies are gone, and you don't have bits of badguy entrails splattered on your front porch.
But consider this an excellent lesson learned: Watch your flanks, keep your antennae up for BG #2 (and #3) hiding out of view. Quoted: All's well that ends well . . . also, keep a bright flashlight (I use a two cell Mag Light)for the additional purpose of shining it in the eyes of your attacker. If you have a mirror at the end of a hallway, look at yourself pointing a shotgun (unloaded, duh) with a flashlight shining at your image. You can't see at all. Then light up an object as an imaginary "attacker" and see the advantage you have. View Quote That's always something I've wondered about as I've heard some who are against the "light 'em up" tactic. It's said that by using a flashlight to illuminate your target/foe, you immediately send out a "shoot here" beacon for them or their flankers to know your position in the dark whereas if you stay dark, you are just as obscured as they are. I wouldn't want to broadcast my position in the dark to the BG or any of his buddies, but I also understand that actually SEEING your target has immense advantages also. |
|
No, Jeremy, doesn't live here, but[b] let me introduce you to my little friend[/b] <[i]in my best Al Pacino Cuban brogue[/i]>
Sounds to me like a coupla morons barely escaped with their asses intact. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: All's well that ends well . . . also, keep a bright flashlight (I use a two cell Mag Light)for the additional purpose of shining it in the eyes of your attacker. If you have a mirror at the end of a hallway, look at yourself pointing a shotgun (unloaded, duh) with a flashlight shining at your image. You can't see at all. Then light up an object as an imaginary "attacker" and see the advantage you have. View Quote That's always something I've wondered about as I've heard some who are against the "light 'em up" tactic. It's said that by using a flashlight to illuminate your target/foe, you immediately send out a "shoot here" beacon for them or their flankers to know your position in the dark whereas if you stay dark, you are just as obscured as they are. I wouldn't want to broadcast my position in the dark to the BG or any of his buddies, but I also understand that actually SEEING your target has immense advantages also. View Quote Try the mirror thing. Any shots would be incoming completely w/o benefit of being aimed. No use playing fair. [}:D] Locally, shortly after the riverboats brought gambling to the area we had a 70+ y/o man shoot his wife of decades as she entered their bedroom late at night. He merely shot at the darkened figure as it (she) entered the room. Baaaaaad to do. Personally, I keep eyeglasses, flashlight, and Mossy 590 handy. My wife knows the drill--she gets down behind the water bed and calls 911 for a meat wagon, then my attorney, who is pro-gun and known by me in advance. |
|
Glad everything turned out OK. You now realize what you need to do to be more prepared. Another thing, my friends and I every once and a while after walking into a store will have each other ID everyone in the store after we leave. After just a few times you get much better at recalling little details, how many people, approximate size, skin tone, what they were wearing and any other key features.
|
|
Quoted: Try the mirror thing. Any shots would be incoming completely w/o benefit of being aimed. No use playing fair. [}:D] View Quote I know what you're saying. My only concern is if I'm not actually shining directly at the foe - try the mirror thing then pull your aim just slightly off your mark. If you're the BG (or a flanker), you'll see a greatly illuminated bullseye to aim towards. I suppose no method is foolproof in all circumstances though. Quoted: Personally, I keep eyeglasses, flashlight, and Mossy 590 handy. My wife knows the drill--she gets down behind the water bed and calls 911 for a meat wagon, then my attorney, who is pro-gun and known by me in advance. View Quote Now THAT'S a plan! |
|
I'm glad it worked out without casualties. You may want to review and reconsider you're tactics and general awareness for next time.
|
|
I don't think it was anything more than drunken idiocy. They probably decided to rouse their buddy and get him to come drinking too. They may have been planning an ambush, but to me it sounds like nothing more than sinister than some DUI and foolishness.
|
|
Personally, I wouldn't have shown the AR unless it got hinkey and he wouldn't leave. Now he knows you have a nice, expensive toy they may think about making theirs.
Of course, I wasn't there, so I don't know just how hinkey it was there. |
|
Good thing that you were ready to display your AR to a couple of guys that were looking for your neighbors' house.
"acted very strange", eh? But couldn't describe the man, nor his attire, nor his vehicle. . . I wonder what qualifies as "strange" behavior in your part of the "rural area". Well, good thing that you defused that situation! I'm sure that that "second guy" had a bead on your head! And you logged on tonight to report this? |
|
Quoted: Personally, I wouldn't have shown the AR unless it got hinkey and he wouldn't leave. Now he knows you have a nice, expensive toy they may think about making theirs. Of course, I wasn't there, so I don't know just how hinkey it was there. View Quote How could you NOT show the AR? It doesn't matter what you have for a gun, if you show it they are going to know you have something worth stealing. The alternative is to never use your guns to defend yourself- or to shoot EVERYONE you think is suspicious just so it can be a secret. Neither of those is a very practical alternative now are they? That bad part I see in this is not that you revealed something to them, that was unavoidable. The bad part is that the cops never met them so they were never questioned and their true ID's and backgrounds determined. Then you would have known if they were just drunks or something more sinister. If you knew for certain they were just drunks you could just blow this off. But since that didn't happen would suggest a higher than normal level of security and caution for the next couple weeks. And it wouldn't hurt to ask you neighbor about this, that is if your neighbor is not something you try to avoid. Maybe it was a accident, wouldn't hurt to find out. |
|
I only have one question. Did you lock the safe again after you you retrieved your AR????????
|
|
Hey M4Madness, I keep two Minimag lights and a few chemlights on top of my safe. If the batteries are bad in flash lights I always a have the chem lights in which I can snap and get hours of light.
If you put a red or blue lens in Minimags you can be really stealthy when opening your safe. Be safe and have a Happy Independence Day. |
|
Quoted: [url=]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=129529[/url] View Quote Um, IMHO, this is a spoof of this thread. LOL A good one too!! [:D] |
|
Quoted: yeah it was funny. maybe I'll even unlock it. View Quote This one time, at band camp . . . |
|
Quoted: [url=]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=129529[/url] View Quote So what? What is this supposed to mean? Are you trying to allege that this was made up? Why? Why do you find it so hard to beleve that people use their AR's to actually defend themselves? If I had to use my AR to defend myself, and got off without having to actually shoot someone-which opens a whole different legal can of worms- you bet I would post it. I would hope that most people here would. Do you find something STRANGE about this? And that wasn't funny what PRK did, which is why that thread is now LOCKED. He is just jealous and possibly a little frightned, because he lives in a state where he could never do what M4Madness did without being hauled away in cuffs... |
|
Quoted: Quoted: [url=]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=129529[/url] View Quote Um, IMHO, this is a spoof of this thread. LOL A good one too!! [:D] View Quote I know, I know. . . just trying to ensure the connection. [The "spoof" has already been locked] |
|
I shot a burglar last Feb at my house (case goes to court 11July). I cannot even begin to list the MANY tactical mistakes I made in dealing with that jackass. Like you, I came out ok.
Hopefully we can both learn from our encounters & not make the same mistake twice. My nightmare from my burglar is: what if he had been armed & shooting? Since you opened your door to a totally unknown situation, you too took unnecessary chances. |
|
I must give credit to my inspiration, Johnny_Reno
[url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=124445[/url] These parodies from the "perp"'s point of view actually have a side-effect which I think is beneficial: thinking about how you might have an accusation laid on you like One Shot One Kill did, if the jackass went and called the Sheriff on YOU. |
|
Why do you people find what M4Madness posted to be a source of mirth? I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote?
Do you assume he is not telling the truth? Why? |
|
Quoted: Quoted: [url=]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=129529[/url] View Quote So what? What is this supposed to mean? Are you trying to allege that this was made up? Why? Why do you find it so hard to beleve that people use their AR's to actually defend themselves? If I had to use my AR to defend myself, and got off without having to actually shoot someone-which opens a whole different legal can of worms- you bet I would post it. I would hope that most people here would. Do you find something STRANGE about this? And that wasn't funny what PRK did, which is why that thread is now LOCKED. He is just jealous and possibly a little frightned, because he lives in a state where he could never do what M4Madness did without being hauled away in cuffs... View Quote I'd like to make something clear: I count on my AR to serve as protection for me. I trust my magazines and ammo to function perfectly at the critical moment, and I select them accordingly. At times, I train as if it were for my life. Please don't misunderstand. |
|
slow down people! the spoof thread(while funny, yes I do have a sense of humor) was locked because I do feel this is a serious matter and not a made up event.
|
|
Quoted: Why do you people find what M4Madness posted to be a source of [red]mirth[/red]? View Quote Wasn't mirth one of the gifts of the Three Wise Men? Gold, Frankincense and Mirth. I think so. Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote Quoted: Do you assume he is not telling the truth? Why? View Quote |
|
I have no reason to doubt that the gravity of the event was real in the mind of M4'.
Pure speculation, and, in some ways, pure credit to what I believe is the intrinsic goodness in humankind, but I do feel that this was an honest mistake of address on the part of those who knocked on the door of M4's house. Yes, everything ended safely for everyone involved. This is what matters in the end. Relieved to know that a member of this board didn't elevate what could have been an honest mistake to the point of deadly force. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote View Quote I did not see any arm bones anywhere. [BD] |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote View Quote I did not see any arm bones anywhere. [BD] View Quote Oh stop with the mirth already [b]beekeeper[/b]! [:D] Besides, he is the [b][red]Arm[/red]dLbrl[/b] [BD] |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote View Quote I did not see any arm bones anywhere. [BD] View Quote I guess that although I consider myself to be on the trailing edge of comedy, I'm stumped. Does this have something to do with a lack of a "humerus" take on the posts? |
|
Quoted: I must give credit to my inspiration, Johnny_Reno [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=124445[/url] These parodies from the "perp"'s point of view actually have a side-effect which I think is beneficial: thinking about how you might have an accusation laid on you like One Shot One Kill did, if the jackass went and called the Sheriff on YOU. View Quote Well MAYBE... but you see there are such large regional differences. What happend to One Shot simply COULD NOT happen in Arizona, or in any of thirty other states. At the same time, there are several stats, New York and California at the top of the list, where what M4Madness did would get him put in jail. And in those places we do need to encourage our people to use caution. Dont know where Indiana rates on that- hope he does! However in States where it is safe to do so we should encourage people to exercise their rights to the fullest extent, so that the "others" become used to it. And maybe even some will become converted... |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote View Quote I did not see any arm bones anywhere. [BD] View Quote I guess that although I consider myself to be on the trailing edge of comedy, I'm stumped. Does this have something to do with a lack of a "humerus" take on the posts? View Quote I misspelled humorous, and probably others, typing too fast again... |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote View Quote I did not see any arm bones anywhere. [BD] View Quote I guess that although I consider myself to be on the trailing edge of comedy, I'm stumped. Does this have something to do with a lack of a "humerus" take on the posts? View Quote Forget it, I see. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't find anything particularly humerous in what he wrote? View Quote View Quote I did not see any arm bones anywhere. [BD] View Quote I guess that although I consider myself to be on the trailing edge of comedy, I'm stumped. Does this have something to do with a lack of a "humerus" take on the posts? View Quote Forget it, I see. View Quote [Edited to add that I'm stupid for not seeing the pertinent post before] |
|
All in good fun, gents. No offense intended. It's late, I'm feeling plucky, and am now off to bed. Happy Fourth!!
[USA] |
|
Quoted: All in good fun, gents. No offense intended. It's late, I'm feeling plucky, and am now off to bed. Happy Fourth!! [USA] View Quote I don't know why I like beekeeper1 so much but I just do. He's like an unmet uncle somehow. . . great guy. |
|
Quoted: ...my wife said [i]not to open the door[/i]. I held the rifle behind the wall next to the door out of sight in my right hand as I opened it with my left hand. View Quote Like everyone else, I'm very happy that nothing bad happened to ANYONE involved in this incident. However, you made a number of very important mistakes here, as clearly you've figured out. But above is the one with the biggest potential for danger: YOU OPENED THE DOOR! You should have taken your wife's advice. There's no reason you couldn't have spoken through the door. You should also have a peephole and a well-lit porch. Just like you teach a little kid, you should NEVER open the door to strangers. You could have easily been bum-rushed by the second, unseen person, and may have ended up ARMING them with your rifle. Of course, none of that happened, thankfully, but the important part is that you learn AND CORRECT all of the mistakes NOW, so that next time, you have your sh!t together. Other important problems: - No PLAN! You and your wife should have a plan for handling these situations. You don't have time to think up a plan when there's already someone at the door. Instead, you "vapor lock." That's why TRAINING on your PLAN is so important. You should have several plans for different emergencies. - No defensive layers (sensor lights, dog, peephole, intercom, etc.) to give you time to prepare. - No defensive firearm available when you needed it. - No light available (have a weapon-mounted light as well as a handheld. I recommend the Streamlight Scorpion for the latter.) - Lack of situational awareness (due to lack of plan and the resulting panic). Don't think I'm trying to give you a hard time. I'm just trying to coach you so that you don't put your lives at risk the next time. Mistakes aren't great, but they often make for the best lessons (if you survive, that is!). -Troy |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Why do you people find what M4Madness posted to be a source of [red]mirth[/red]? View Quote Wasn't mirth one of the gifts of the Three Wise Men? Gold, Frankincense and Mirth. I think so. View Quote Thats [b]myrrh[/b] you Godless Commie!!! Myrrh! Myrrh!! MYRRH!!! Spell it right dangit!!! hehe just playing with ya. [;)] Oh the things you do when you're tired and bored...*twiddles thumbs* |
|
At the risk of being called a moderator kiss-ass, Troy makes the point I was getting ready to bring up. YOU OPENED THE DOOR around midnight when somebody is banging the crap out of it?
Unless there is someone on the other side screaming POLICE OPEN UP while beating on my door. I am going to be screaming (without opening my door) WHO THE F*** IS BANGING ON MY DOOR AT 12 O'CLOCK MIDNIGHT? while racking a round in my shotgun. Whoever answers better sound scared or I will be sh*tting my scooby doo's! |
|
Quoted: I wouldn't want to broadcast my position in the dark to the BG or any of his buddies, but I also understand that actually SEEING your target has immense advantages also. View Quote Good point. That's why you shouldn't be out looking for BGs with your light turned on! Use the light sparingly. Briefly illuminate an area for a few seconds and then shut the light off and immediately move in darkness to clear another area. If a BG sees your light and takes a shot at it chances are he will be shooting at where you were a moment ago before you moved. If you're going to use a flashlight with an AR15 you should think about mounting it to the rifle, unless you have three hands. I agree with the others about not opening the door. I don't open my door to strangers in the daytime, much less if I were roused out of bed in the middle of the night. True story: When I lived in Miami a man knocked on my door in the middle of the afternoon. I looked through the peephole and I didn't recognize him so I said "Who is it?" He said he was looking for some guy I didn't know so I said he didn't live there. About 20 minutes later a different man knocked on my door and asked for a different man's name! I said he doesn't live here. I thought that rather coincidental. It turned out several neighbors got robbed that day. Those two had been casing the neighborhood. Another trick I've heard is for a young woman to knock on your door and ask to use the phone because her car broke down or some made up story, while her cohorts in crime hide in the bushes and rush you when you open the door. NEVER open you door to strangers. If someone wants to use your phone offer to make the call for them. |
|
Why didn't you pick up a little something for the wife while you were at the safe?
I keep an ASP keychain light clipped to my robe; that sounds like it would have worked great for you finding and opening the safe without the BGs/Unknowns noticing the light. (I also keep a SureFire in the nightstand.) |
|
i have 2 rotts, they are great for those pesky midnight salesmen, or whatever they say the are, if they pound too hard, for too long, i open the door, and watchem go
|
|
Depending on your arsenal, I'd say there was a second mistake made: picking up a rifle instead of a shotgun or large-caliber handgun.
In my opinion, rifles are too cumbersome to wield against robbers. A handgun is easier to point in close quarters; a shotgun is more devastating. The only advantage of a rifle is that it'll hit harder if you manage to point it in the right direction when yanking the trigger. Even then, if you've got it loaded with FMJ, it's still not going to do as well as a .45 with HP's or a 12ga load of #4's. JMHO. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.