from foxnews, todays bombing in Jerusalem

"...The explosion blew out the back and the sides of the bus stop shelter, leaving just a concrete bench and the roof. An arm and a leg were among the body parts scattered on the street, which was covered with blood and shards of glass. A baby carriage was overturned, and rescue workers covered it with a black plastic bag."

The Palestinians are sub human animals!  They aren't even wanted by their "Arab Brothers".  They delight in the killing of innocent children.  

I hope Israel smashes them into an oblivion.  Take back Gaza and West Bank, and tell Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt if they don't like it, bring it on once and for all!

Don't give me it's their land, Jerusalem is the City of David.  Even if it was, look at their despicable tactics.  They must be totally destroyed.

Hitler thought genocide was the way to go too. But he was more charismatic then you are.......
[:k]

Just herd them like goats into Jordan and Syria.
It's not their fault, they're savages.

I realize that to have such thoughts is a wholly un-Christian act, but I'm afraid I agree with ar15bubba. These people are barbarians and should be exterminated like the vermin they are.

And before anyone says "Well, what about the 98% that are innocent?"; I don't see even 10% of that 98% protesting the bombings and calling for their twisted brethren to stop.

And before anyone says "But those who protest will be killed by their brethren"; That didn't seem to stop the blacks in the South from getting fed up one day and demanding their civil rights. (What they've done with them since is the subject of an entirely different post.)

As I said. God may frown upon my decision, but if I were Israel, the tanks would have been REALLY rolling long ago.

I have have a gut feeling that todays bombing IS the last straw of the IDF's last straws.
This bombing shows that Arafat isnt serious about stopping the innocent killings,If Israel doesnt retaliate in a miltiary fashion I doubt Israel is serious about defense. My $0.02

But then again, the Jews were never a threat to the nazi way of life, were they?  Of course, the nazis believed that they were, but what power did the Jews have to harm the nazis?

Do you believe that Kristallnacht was simply a retaliation for Jews blowing up busloads of little blond-haired, blue-eyed school children in Germany prior to 1938?

Your analogy is as stale as an afternoon Big Mac.

[:k]

The notion of killing civilians because civilians were killed is the same and wrong and the lack of or abundance of intelligence doesn't equal morality. The Jews of Germany (the persecuted) are the Israelis (persecutors) of the Middle East and the Muslims are fanatic about keeping the Middle East "pure" just like the Germans did in 1938.

Read your Art of War these groups of palestinians are doing what they can with what they got and the Israelis can't open up on the whole group without closing the circle of becoming a true Nazi.

What gets me is I don't care if they fully took it to the mat. I just wished we wouldn't support any "coin operated peace" in the region. Both sides suck and both of them are responsible for the hell they have created. Let God Sort It Out!   [;D]

Saw a clip on the news of a cleanup guy holding a kitchen-sized garbage  bag with a [b]leg[/b] sticking out of it, Reebok and all.


Roll the Merkavas, I say.

Is that a [b]baby carriage?[/b] Lord, what heroes these Palestinians worship!

[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20020619/i/1024511749.3019972633.jpg[/img]

Caption: Israeli emergency workers cover the body of a victim and clear debris after a suicide bomb blast at a Jerusalem bus stop June 19, 2002. Police and medics said at least seven people were killed in the blast, which took place in the early evening rush hour in the northern French Hill neighborhood of Jerusalem. (Goran Tomasevic/Reuters)

Father, please send these terrorists and their supporters to Hell quickly!

Eric The(Their[u]Civilian[/u]SupportersAsWell)Hun[>]:)]

So you say genocide IS the way to go??? If so then I hope you reap what you sow. I am all for wiping out "terrorists" but every man woman and child is a little much don't you think??? Or maybe you don't. Do you also agree if a person kills someone his whole family should die for it??? Or only if they don't speak out about how wrong it was for him to kill. Seem's once you start solving problems with nuclear bombs it's not about who is right but who is left. Just my stale big mac opine of the afternoon.

If the Palestinians were truly serious about having their own nation, the innocent among them would protest the bombings as posted earlier.  Too bad they are not educated enough to learn some history.  Passive resistance works.  The media only recently is losing sympathy for the Palestinian people.  If they were to practice passive resistance, imagine how fast they would get their own state.  As long as there are those that bomb and supposed innocent remain silent, this cycle will continue.  I have no qualms letting Israel hunt every terrorist and their sympathizers down and killing them.

I love how those that hate Israel blindly try to cover it up with assinine statements like 'stop supporting both sides' and 'The Jews of Germany (the persecuted) are the Israelis (persecutors) of the Middle East and the Muslims are fanatic about keeping the Middle East "pure" just like the Germans did in 1938.'  What the hell is there to keep pure about the Middle East?  You people just hate Israel.  Stop trying to justify it with smokescreens and just say it.

Yankee1911... just for the record...the Nazis didn't really think that the Jews were a threat to their way of life...well, perhaps the lower level brain washed ones did, but those at the highest levels only used the pre-existing hatred of Jews in Germany to further their rise to power.

And also for the record... I'm 100% German and proud...and 100% Jewish and proud.

Slaughtering them all would be beneath the Israeli's dignity.
Just herd 'em.  Straight to the Jordan.
At a nice steady pace.
Water 'em now and then.  Cull any stragglers.

It's gotta stop...   I think the only way it will stop is if the price of terrorism gets too high...   They should start with old "Liver Lip" himself...

How are the Israelis the persecutors of the Middle East?  Also, exactly who is a civilian on the Palestinian side?  It seems to me that the "civilians" are the ones doing most of the killing.  



Fine.  They're making do with what they have.  They are also [b]specifically[/b] targeting Israeli civilians.  Wanna keep talking about moral equivalency?

What does the "Art of War" say about dealing with an enemy whose non-combatants are indistinguishable from the combatants?



I suspect you won't have very long to wait for the bell to sound the beginning of the first round of this "cage match".

I must agree, even with what I've said above.

I suppose the reason I take sides with Israel is because I have much more in common with the Jewish faith and culture than I do with the Arabs, and because I don't see groups of Hasidic rabbis extolling the virtues of flying planeloads of innocent people into buildings full of innocent people.

But hey, that's just me.

LOL!

Just their birth of combat (Israel) is seen by many in the region as perscution. Let alone the incursions into Lebeanon, Iraq (Air-strikes) and other dealings with countries in the Middle East.

Moral Equivalency? Both sides are wrong as much its wrong for us to take sides and support any of these numb skulls.

I'd have to look up all the passages. (Art of War)

We can only hope.

Total war. It gets much worse before it gets better.

Look what the U.S. did to Germany and Japan in the ‘40’s. We absolutely laid waste to the enemy’s way of life. All the ordnance we dropped on Dresden and Tokyo, for example, didn’t differentiate between combatant and civilian. We deliberately destroyed civilians. Hundreds of thousands were killed. The object was to destroy their will to fight and vanquish them as a people. To burn them to ashes. It’s called total war. When they were smashed as a people, we put up our guns. They were no longer a threat to us.

Maybe it’s time for some total war to be waged against those people who rejoice in the slaughtering of Israeli civilians? When is Israel supposed to draw the line? We would do it if our way of life was attacked on a daily basis.

As fervently as Muslims believe that everybody other than themselves are satan incarnate, how do you distinguish the "terrorists" from the "innocent civilians"?  Israel obviously hasn't been able to do it yet, but maybe you have the answer.  

Muslim children dancing in the street on September 11th,  "civilian" palestinians blowing up buses and pizza parlors (killing truly innocent civilians, I might add).  Sorry, but I guess I don't have your ability to pick out the terrorists from the "innocent" palestinians.  And I'm guessing the Israelis don't have that ability, either.

I'm not advocating genocide; merely survival.  When the Palestinians decide that their tactics will lead to their own downfall, they may change their way of thinking about Israel  (don't hold your breath, though).

A line must be drawn in the sand. THIS FAR AND NO FURTHER....

Scott


P.S. Give them a week to leave. Those who stay are combatants. Let the combatants glow in the dark....

Yes they should wipe out the terrorists, but they should also wipe out the terrorist supporters.  These is video of the terrorist supporters cheering the 9/11 attacks.  If you wipe out the terrorist and their supports, there will be very little collateral damage.

I never said I had the answer. I am a [:k] remember??? I only stated genocide was NOT the answer. Guess you will find fault with that too.
Your opinion of being wiped off the map would change if these people were talking about you and yours. Now you can start your "1st Ammendment" freedom speach.

Herd 'em.

A thought just occured to me (it happens so seldom), let me see if I can adequately articulate it.

The Israelis, the US, the rest of the world, the media and even ourselves are guilty of complicating the current Israel vs. Palestian issue. Most of the above listed entities are accustomed to referring to the Palestinians as (somehow) a soveriegn nation. Once elevated to national status, we then force the Israelis (and they force themselves), to deal with them
not as common criminals but as members of a nation-state. The nation of Israel is most guilty of this, but the Israelis did this in the interest of peace. A side effect of this attempt at peace is that the Israelis and the world have unofficially 'recognised' the Palestinian state and an official nation, and the PLO leadership as its government.

If this could be reversed, if Palestine had no recognition as a separate nation, if the PLO and Arafat were seen as no more than a local constabulary, if Israel would treat the Palestinians as common criminals.....would this still be an issue?

I was thinkng of allusions to my thought process and decided on the Native Americans. If we, as the US, was threatened from the interior by a particular tribe, how would our government react? If this hypothetical tribe had a demonstrable, historical, semi-legitimate problem with the US government and began to use suicide/homicide bombers to make their point, how would the US react? The argument could be made that Native Americans have a legitimate claim to lands in the US (just like the Palestinians in Israel), that the US took these lands by force and forceably relocated the surviving Native Americans (think Jenin). The US would not waste time negotiating with the Chief of this tribe (think Arafat). The full weight and power of the US law enforcement agencies (FBI, State, County and Local) would be brought top bear on the source of these bombings until they stopped bombing. If this tribe began open warfare in the CONUS, the individual state's Army and Air Force National Guards would be activated until this warfare would be stopped.

More to come.....still thinking.[:)]

Whoa, you are jumping all over the map with this one.

First, you didn't simply (at least initially) suggest that genocide was not the answer.  You compared ar15bubba to Hitler.  I only responded with the [:k] icon because you responded to his post with the same icon.  I have no problem with you expressing your opinion on this (or any) issue, until you start implying that people with an opinion contrary to yours are trolls.  As to my "1st Amendment" freedom speech, you're as welcome as I am to speak your mind.  I don't believe I've ever even brought up the 1st amendment on this board.

Second, I wasn't finding fault with your idea that genocide isn't the answer.  My last post should have made that clear.  What I do believe is that Israel needs to hit them hard, and if that includes the so-called innocent civilians, so be it.

Third, yes I suspect that my opinion would change if the shoe were on the other foot, as it were.  But, I would never be in a position where I would target civilians as a tactic of war to further whatever agenda I may have.  Some things are just wrong, always have been wrong, and always will be wrong, no matter which side of the fence you happen to be on.

Deliberately killing innocent civilians is [b]wrong[/b] and I think the Palestinians are about to learn that lesson once and for all.

We do agree after all. The stunning military defeat is the way to go. And yes some civilians will be killed (fact of war) but killing "all" of them only puts you below their level. I am glad we got that clear. No flame was intended. The 1st ammendment part was a jab at a few others, not at you. Peace! Out. [beer]

Both sides are idiots: Sort of like the Catholics and Protestants of the UK.

What needs to be done is:

#1 Gather up all the steel from the WTC.
#2 Haul it to the middle east.
#3 Build a big wall where we want to between Israel and the PLO.

#4 Mount CIWS from US Navy ships on the wall facing in BOTH directions.
#5 Anyone who gets too close gets shot up with depleted uranium bullets.

Sure, sounds like the Berlin Wall, but not really. This is for both sides protection...

mug

I've always been of the opinion that the U.S. Government should have bought every ounce of scrap metal from the WTC and smelted it into bombs for use in the war on terror.

Imagine having 1 million tons of metal rammed up your ass 500 lbs at a time!

Special delivery for Mr. Terrorist!....

Fair enough.

[beer] Back at ya!! [:)]

Last time I checked, these people [b]DO[/b] want to wipe us off the map.  Wake up!

Mr. Torf,

Where did you get this information?

There was an Indian fellow om Fox & Friends this morning that had written a book called [i][b]'Inside Al Qaeda'[/b][/i].

He was asked when did Osama Bin Laden turn on the United States. When did he go from being a guerilla to being a terrorist?

He said it was when Bin Laden offered in 1990 to 'rescue' Kuwait from Saddam Hussein's troops at the beginning of the Gulf War, and was rebuffed by Kuwait, who turned to the United States for help.

The author said Bin Laden never got over the insult, and expected the US to have a difficult time in overcoming the Iraqis.

When the US handily prevailed in the Gulf War and Saudi Arabia did not ask the US to quickly leave, it added even more to the insult in Bin Laden's mind.

Here is an excerpt from another site that supports this author's views:

". . . By 1990, Bin Laden was disillusioned by the internal bickering of the Mujaheddin and he returned to Saudi Arabia to work in the family business. He founded a welfare organization for Arab-Afghan veterans. Some 4,000 of them had settled in Mecca and Medina alone, and Bin Laden gave money to the families of those killed. After Iraq's invasion of Kuwait he lobbied the Royal Family to organize a popular defense of the kingdom and raise a force from the Afghan war veterans to fight Iraq. Instead, King Fahd invited in the Americans. This came as an enormous shock to Bin Laden. As the 540,000 US troops began to arrive, Bin Laden openly criticized the Royal Family, lobbying the Saudi ulema [religious scholars] to issue fatwas, religious rulings, against non-Muslims being based in the country." From [url] http://www.public-i.org/excerpts_01_091301.htm[/url]

So what does this have to do with anything on this thread?

Note that 'Israel' is not mentioned once in this story!

Bin Laden was pizzed with the United States long before he seized upon the plight of the poor Palestinians against US-sponsored Israeli terrorism as a reason for Sept 11th.

Eric The(YouSee!)Hun[>]:)]

I am awake, and I was talking about the AR15.com members. Not the arabs. I know they want to wipe us out. And some one saying that about America upsets you doesn't it. Well, that was my point.

[size=6][red]RA[/red][white]HO[/white][blue]WA![/blue][/size=6]

I don't like it when the liberals and those in Hollywood criticize Israel when Palestinian civilians are accidently killed. It's very tragic but they forget that killing civilians is the Palestinian's main method. They send in a guy with a bomb hoping he can kill as many as he can. Today's Palestinian bombing/killing of 7 civilians at a bus stop was just plain cowardice.  

But Hun, are not the Israelis (The non-Christians, of course.) also going to be in hell ??

Interesting choice of words in your sig line......"Their Civilian Supporters as well."

History proves that limited war gives limited results.   No one "wins" but rather, everybody loses.

Negotiated settlements to disputes only work when the parties are honorable and can keep their word.  When they are so tired of conflict that each side will compromise to secure peace, they can achieve peace.

Victory requires TOTAL war.  The last total war was also the last conflict that had clear winners and clear losers.  It was also the LAST war that the United States WON.  Every other conflict has been a cluster flop that only a politician or coward - traitor like Colon (exit) Powell could admire.  It is interesting to note that two of our biggest enemies of WWII have become civilized members of the world and allies of the US.  They may not always agree with us but they do not attempt to murder us either. Japan and Germany are respected and wish to maintain peace.  I admire both of them.

It is clear that Israel has been willing to compromise.  They have offered nearly everything the pond scum say they want.  What have the vermin offered?  Their ONLY offer is to accept 100% of what they have wanted since they got their ass kicked in 67!  (A war the vermin provoked.)  If they get that 100%, MAYBE they will quit murdering Israelies.  Some compromise!  Clearly a meaningful negotiated settlement is out of the question.  All that can be achieved by that is continued unrest, further wars.

The only solution left is total war.  Until it is waged, this nagging mess will remain.  At some point the moslem vermin will cry uncle and be willing to surrender rather than see there children shot and burned to death.  (Hell, they send them out to blow themselves up so maybe they will never see the light.)  I am quite willing to see total war waged not only on the PA scum but on all Arab / moslem states / people that are not willing to join the civilized world.  They have had their chance and failed.  The solution now is war on a scale that they do not even believe exists.  Total defeat of ALL of them, throughout the world.  Total defeat requires that we quit being squemeish about killing civilians.  It worked in WWII and it will work now.  We have a fortune invested in nuclear arms and so far have not gotten our monies worth.  It is time to use them for just what they were designed for, total destruction of cities and the populations thereof.  Warfare as practiced in the Old Testament - the "BAN" - where EVERY LIVING THING is to be killed in a city or nation.

If you believe the Bible then God ordered genocide against evil people.  The PA scum and moslems, IMHO, are evil and deserve just that.

I believe there was a thread a few weeks ago that promoted the U.S. as the greatest nation that ever was (or ever would be).

Judging from many of the comments from this current thread, it seems that the U.S. might want to be regarded as possibly the most bloodthirsty also. Certainly, it appears to be the nation most easily swayed by TV – especially the 'fair and even' racaus baying of FOX!

The Japanese used to take slices from the feet of their POW's. We did not obliterate the race because of what some of them did. We bought their TV's, cars, VCR's and their cameras instead. Why? Because, I guess, we figured that the actions of a few did not warrant genocide.

But, the Germans were a whole different story. The SS did not just torture POW's, they orchestrated an organized attempt to rid themselves (murder) every Jewish man, woman and child that were not of use to them – lets toss-in the Gypses too! Their reasoning was as political as it was racist.

But still, after WW2, we did not kill every German, we did not attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth. We bought their Merc's, their BMW instead and we used their rocket scientists and utilized their landmass to protect the U.S. from the Soviets.

However, because of 9/11 and the recent Palestinian atrocities this greatest nation, that ever was or will be, is prepared render all those ideals (and certain political expediencies) null and void. We appear to be after blood and only the irradictation of all the Palestinians will suffice – I guess that's what some would call progress!

What you will probably never hear from FOX is that the tactics the Israelis are currently persuing are fundamentally the same tactics that have failed them for the past 20 years: an eye (or two) for an eye. Yet the conflict in the Middle East has not changed; it is still the same conflict.

Short of the air-burst nuke, genocide policy knee-jerk posters advocate, there seems little hope of changing anything with Arafat at the helm of the Palestians and Sharon at the trigger of the Israelis.

The Bush administration has already hinted heavily that a change in the Palestinian leadership would be beneficial – recent polls have shown that Arafat has less than 30% popular support. It seems to me that this is the way to go: Undermine Arafat and encourage an alternative Palestinian leadership. Sharon is, and always was a hawk, but, he won't last forever.

The alternative is for the U.S. to forfeit its chance to really be a force for progress that can, through its enterprise and influence, end a major, 20yr conflict at long range.

I would suggest that that is a better testimonial for the U.S. than resorting or supporting the first act of genocide in the second milenia.

Okay, that's the carrot; here's the stick:

Over 120,000 acres of land; 25 homes; and, 5,000 people evacuated were caused by Forest Ranger who failed to ensure a love-letter was extinguished. No doubt it was not intentional.

The point is this: a terrorist does not need 20kg of Semptex and nails strapped to his chest. Unless you are prepared to kill each and everyone of them, all it takes is one guy with a match. And all the armies in the world cannot stop him/her.

I believe there was a thread a few weeks ago that promoted the U.S. as the greatest nation that ever was (or ever would be).

Judging from many of the comments from this current thread, it seems that the U.S. might want to be regarded as possibly the most bloodthirsty also. Certainly, it appears to be the nation most easily swayed by TV – especially the 'fair and even' racaus baying of FOX!

The Japanese used to take slices from the feet of their POW's. We did not obliterate the race because of what some of them did. We bought their TV's, cars, VCR's and their cameras instead. Why? Because, I guess, we figured that the actions of a few did not warrant genocide.

But, the Germans were a whole different story. The SS did not just torture POW's, they orchestrated an organized attempt to rid themselves (murder) every Jewish man, woman and child that were not of use to them – lets toss-in the Gypses too! Their reasoning was as political as it was racist.

But still, after WW2, we did not kill every German, we did not attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth. We bought their Merc's, their BMW instead and we used their rocket scientists and utilized their landmass to protect the U.S. from the Soviets.

However, because of 9/11 and the recent Palestinian atrocities this greatest nation, that ever was or will be, is prepared render all those ideals (and certain political expediencies) null and void. We appear to be after blood and only the irradictation of all the Palestinians will suffice – I guess that's what some would call progress!

What you will probably never hear from FOX is that the tactics the Israelis are currently persuing are fundamentally the same tactics that have failed them for the past 20 years: an eye (or two) for an eye. Yet the conflict in the Middle East has not changed; it is still the same conflict.

Short of the air-burst nuke, genocide policy knee-jerk posters advocate, there seems little hope of changing anything with Arafat at the helm of the Palestians and Sharon at the trigger of the Israelis.

The Bush administration has already hinted heavily that a change in the Palestinian leadership would be beneficial – recent polls have shown that Arafat has less than 30% popular support. It seems to me that this is the way to go: Undermine Arafat and encourage an alternative Palestinian leadership. Sharon is, and always was a hawk, but, he won't last forever.

The alternative is for the U.S. to forfeit its chance to really be a force for progress that can, through its enterprise and influence, end a major, 20yr conflict at long range.

I would suggest that that is a better testimonial for the U.S. than resorting or supporting the first act of genocide in the second milenia.

Okay, that's the carrot; here's the stick:

Over 120,000 acres of land; 25 homes; and, 5,000 people evacuated were caused by Forest Ranger who failed to ensure a love-letter was extinguished. No doubt it was not intentional.

The point is this: a terrorist does not need 20kg of Semptex and nails strapped to his chest. Unless you are prepared to kill each and everyone of them, all it takes is one guy with a match. And all the armies in the world cannot stop him/her.

Quite the artful dodger, dancing around that point.  These people do want to wipe us and the Israeli's out.  It should be no surprise that people here want to wipe them out.  What's hard to understand about that?  What is surprising is those who constantly defend the Palestinian terrorists under the guise of being fair, when in reality they just want Israel wiped out, even if by the same people that wish OUR destruction.

Why would anyone on AR15.com be advocating genocide of my family?  My kids don't blow up busses, and I don't get paid to train them how to fly airplanes.

Since the Arabs are the ones who want to see America destroyed, I naturally thought you were talking about them.  My mistake, but then again, what was your point?

My point is that I don't have a problem with total war with enemy Arabs, because they have already declared war on us.

Yes, I think you are putting it rather nicely.