What kind of government does Israel have? Are they socalists? What kind of taxes do those folks pay? What kind of gun laws? Just wondering what kind of group my money is helping keep up.

Most people I've talked to that have a favorable inclination toward Israel freely admit it is a socialist nation.

I'm willing to take their word for it.

Careful now, We could be called Socialists too.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Worker's Comp. Government run utilities, Welfare, Food Stamps, Gov. Payment to Farmers, Mass. Transit and on and on.

If you go far enough, the Insterstate System is Socialistic too. A real independent person doesn't use roads [:D]

Well, it is a little nation with big enemies, so I think many conservatives could accept that they need more "direction" - if only to secure their year to year existence.  Just as the United States leaned left during World War II with price controls, rations, etc.

I can live with that. But there are degrees of socialism. ANd compared to Israel, we're still in the minor leagues. (baseball analogy)


Now, correct me if i misunderstand, but is your line of reasoning that Israel advanced socialism is OK, cuz the US is slightly socialistic?? CUz that be what it soundin' like. [:D]




Actually, I beleive roads are specifically enumerated within the Constitution as a delegated power. One of the FEW things the Fed gov't SHOULD be doing. That and national defense. And that's about it.

I don't know how socialistic they are, but labels like that often aren't very accurate.

And since communism and socialism are 2 terms that are often used interchangably..........

See what the CIA publishes about Israel:

"Government type: parliamentary democracy"

"Constitution: no formal constitution; some of the functions of a constitution are filled by the Declaration of Establishment (1948), the Basic Laws of the parliament (Knesset), and the Israeli citizenship law  

Legal system: mixture of English common law, British Mandate regulations, and, in personal matters, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim legal systems; in December 1985, Israel informed the UN Secretariat that it would no longer accept compulsory ICJ jurisdiction  

Suffrage: 18 years of age; universal  

Executive branch: chief of state:  President Moshe KATSAV (since 31 July 2000)

head of government:  Prime Minister Ariel SHARON (since 2 March 2001)

cabinet:  Cabinet selected by prime minister and approved by the Knesset

elections:  president elected by the Knesset for a five-year term; election last held 31 July 2000 (next to be held NA July 2005); prime minister elected by popular vote for a four-year term; election last held 6 February 2001 (next to be held NA 2005); note - in March 1992, the Knesset approved legislation, effective in 1996, which allowed for the direct election of the prime minister, but in 2001 the Knesset voted to restore the previous method under which the legislators will choose the next prime minister after the next legislative elections in 2003

...

Judicial branch: Supreme Court (justices appointed for life by the president)"




[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html[/url]

I'm wondering if we can get an "Israel FAQ" on this site.

Cut down on these threads a bit perhaps.

Site map for the official Israel website (Ministry of Foreign Affairs):

[url]http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00040[/url]

Sure, when we get a "Christian fundamentalist FAQ"- might lessen the number of religious disagreements...   [;D]


More information is always a good thing.

Oh, BTW, your money goes *here* too...

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/cnatra%2Fcombat%2Dgirlz%2Ejpg[/img]

In Samoa our highways are owned by private companies, and the owners compete to provide the best roads for the lowest tolls.

I'd be interested to know the % of the GDP that is taken by government taxes, in both America and Israel. The numbers would tell more than imprecise labels like "socialist".

Regarding firearm ownership, which I expect is of interest to members here, Israel is not as open as the USA to people having guns.  You need a license to own any firearm, although once you are licensed, you're not restricted as to having full auto weapons.  Interestingly, it's easier to get licensed to carry a handgun than a rifle.  The Israelis are more concerned w/how much damage you can do with the weapon, than how concealable it is.

If you're in certain parts of the country, like a settlement on the West Bank, they'll even provide you with an UZI or a rifle, if you want one. Since nearly all adult males have served in the armed forces, knowing how to shoot isn't a problem.

Sport shooting is not particularly frequent. It does occur, but proportionately there is much less of it than here in the States.  There is practically no hunting any more.  There used to be some bird hunting, but I'm not sure if there's any more edible wild birds to hunt. Back in the late '40s to early '50s there was some great wild boar hunting up in the Hula Swamp area in the north, but by the time I was there in '56 the swamps were being drained to make new farm land, and the boars are long gone.

shamayim -

Thanks for the first hand info.

Actually the Interstate Highway system came into being as a part of national defense.

Best to be armed when you're an 'illegal' settler in an 'illegal' settlement in the West Bank.

Post from 5subslr5 -

'Illegal'? as in 'illegal suicide bombing' illegal? [b]subsailor[/b], or 'illegal' as in 'illegal detention of prisoners at Gitmo' illegal?

Eric The(Shiznit)Hun[>]:)]

Some minor correction about Israel:

-Kibutz is a real socialist entity, a common "farm" where people owns only their personal belongings but cannot own the land or the house, that belongs to the kibutz. Everyone, from manager to the last kibutzinik, is called on a weekly or monthly basis to attend duties (guard, coocking, cleaning, and so on) needed in the kibutz. The kibutz philosophy was born due to the partial failure of the first wave of alyiah (1881), where the Jews didn't show any talent in cultivating the land they bought nor to expand their commerce. Left alone, one after the other all the jewish enterprises were doomed to failure. With kibutz Deganya (the first one) the trend changed, because the working force and resouces were not wasted and more efficient. The kibutz era, now, is on its decline, since Israel is more on the western way of life and abandoned the dream of the first immigrants, that were more influenced by the Russian socialism where they belonged.

2) Talking about private ownership: in Israel is pratically IMPOSSIBLE to own rifles and carbines, except shotguns for hunting and sport rifles, like Anschutz or Walther, for Olympic specialties.
All the rifles in military caliber are forbidden, as well as full auto. The M16 and the Galil (but also AK47 and AKM) full auto are given only to settlers by IDF for self defence, and the settlers are considered under military jurisdiction.
Once handguns carry permit were issued easily, but after Nov. 4th 1995 the carry permit are no more released. With the present Intifada situation, the carry permit situation is changing, and Police is starting again to release it. In Israel people can choose to carry openly or concealed, you don't need a special permit in both cases.
To buy guns (handguns...) you don't need any permit, but you cannot take home the gun: you fill a form, make a subscription to a range and the gunshop will send the gun to the range. You can use and handle it only at range. You don't need to be an Israeli citizien or a Israeli citizien with right of vote (is the full citizienship and it take 5 years to get it, and it's becaming harder also for jewish people to get) to buy a gun or to get a carry permit.

I hope this explaination can help...

Thank you for that first hand info, also.

To recap -

1. Socialist control of the agricultural industry.

2. No sport utility rifles for the peons (ones the gov't deems NOT deserving of the right of self-defense. )

I pray that Israel's "democracy" (Israel being the ONLY "democracy" in the region, as we hear OVER and OVER and OVER [rolleyes] ) never makes it to these shores.

Illegal as in illegal Israeli settlers in the Palestinian Occupied Territories.  Over 200,000 now in the Occupied Territories.

Look for Benny-the-Gnat to move to make these settlements legal.  Part of the Gnat's plan to make certain there can be no peace.  No continuing war; no continuing billions from the U.S. taxpayer.
The Palestinian and Israeli governments constitute world-class slime.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Perhaps, [b]subsailor[/b], you did not quite understand the question I asked you.

When you say 'illegal Israeli settlers' are you using the term 'illegal' in the same sense that one uses 'illegal' in referring to 'illegal suicide bombing', or in the sense that one uses 'illegal' as in the 'illegal detention of prisoners at Gitmo'?

Inquiring Huns want to know!

Eric The(YouKnow)Hun[>]:)]

Probably the most appropriate would be illegal Palestinian suicide bomber.  The bombers are illegal and the Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories are illegal.

Oh... you mean that there are also "legal" Palestinian suicide bombers?

Well, [b]subsailor[/b], since it appears from what you've said that the Palestinian suicide bombers are just as 'illegal' as the 'settlers' on the West Bank, could you please tell us what 'law' these settlers have broken.

I think we can all agree that the Palestinian suicide bombers have broken Israeli, as well as Palestinian 'Authority', criminal statutes, can we not?

I mean [b]if[/b] there are laws that have been enacted under the Palestinian Authority's regime that makes killing Jewish women and children.

Eric The(AndI'mNotCertainOf[u]That[/u]!)Hun[>]:)]

I don't believe I mentioned legal Palestinian suicide bombers.  That mention was made by you.

I know of no legal suicide bombers and no legal Israeli settlers in the Palestinian Occupied Territories ??

Wrong. Kibutz is not a STATAL entity, but is people that freely decided to adopt a socialist way of life for share their resources. There are also [i]moshav[/i]s that works more like a ltd. company that put toghether investments and share gains according to each production, like the benefits when you sell shares in the stock market



Right. No utility rifles for everyone. But is the PEOPLE that decided it, and as a consequence the govt. Few years ago a MK of the Likud proposed to easy the carry permit issue. Liberals (there are at any latitudes... unfortunately!) made a so strong press campaign that the proposal was retired...



Your point of view is only your problem.
If you tell me that Israeli gun laws are shitful I can even agree, but no doubt that gunlaws are like that because people voted the govt. that issued that and not the contrary.

Eric, both governments - Israeli and Palestinian - are terorists governments.

Neither group wants peace.  Neither group believes it can afford peace.

If I take your definition of "terrorist state" and "occupied land" and I apply to all the current situations in the world, would happen that:

-USA is a "terroristic" goverment because is using force to defend itself. The project of eliminate Saddam Hussein, for example, is a good example of "targeted killing" method. The same used by the "terroristic" Israel govt. (notice the ironical quotation mark...)
Bombing in Afghanistan, killing thousand of innocent civilians, is another "terroristic" act of the US Govt. You have two choices: or USA is defending itself rightfully, so it's doing also Israel, or USA is also "terroristic" govt., because is using the same methods of Israel.
I love to think that USA has the right to burn the ass of those people, WHEREVER THEY ARE, that are organizing the Holy War against the Infidels. And if a government is protecting those terrorists, they should be burned too...

-Saudi Arabia asked many times the US troops to leave, bothered of all those "infidels" on the holy land of Saudi Arabia. USA didn't leave. [i]de facto[/i] this can be defined an occupation, since that US govt. (and I hope it will keep this position) will never leave Saudi Arabia up to the moment USA will need to defend its interest in that region.

About defining something "illegal": according to what law settlements are "illegal"? Israeli Laws? Palestinian Laws? International Laws?

[b]Bravo, Paolo![/b]

I believe that you understand US politics in this area just as well as anyone on this Board!

Israel is no more of a terrorist state than the US is for doing what it is doing in the War on Terrorism.

Israel is no more of a socialist state than the US is for all the socialism that our parents' generation (you know, the WWII generation) bought into, and that we have decided to keep and extend.

Israel is no more unconcerned about the deaths of its citizens, than the US is unconcerned about the deaths of its citizens.

Both countries are learning, hopefully, from the recent Second Intifadah (Israel) and from the events of Sept 11th (the US), that disarmed people cannot be expected to fight for themselves.

Eric The(Optimistic)Hun[>]:)]

Mr. EricTheHun,

Do you know the % of GDP that is taxed by the government in Israel?

Mr. PaoloAR15,

So you are saying that the people of Israel do not support a right to bear utility rifles?

I say that people don't see military derived rifles good for target shooting or for "sport utility", since:

1) The govt. allows off duty soldiers to bring them at home during leaves;
2) The govt. allows people living in dangerous areas like settlements to keep real military rifles;
3) Private ownership of military derived rifles is not seen with good consideration for INTERNAL SECURITY reasons, due the current issues are not solved.

On the point #3 I want to be clear: there is a small but rumorous extreme right movements that are the jewish equivalent of the american White Aryan Nation (a certain percentage of assholes are present at all latitudes and in all the nations...). Yigal Amir (the one that shot Ytzach Rabin came from such movements). In Israel rifles are considered more likely to fit criminal/terroristic purposes than handguns, so they are pratically banned, if in the original military caliber. To me is a GIGANTIC bullsh*t but this is their country and these are the rules.
But I understand them for a simple reason: in Italy was the same up to 6 years ago.
Before 1973 in Italy you could collect anything with a special licence for "war weapons".
Since 1973, with the wave of communist and fascit terror (it was the time of the Red Brigades in Italy, of the Baader-Meinhof in Germany and the most cruent period of the IRA in UK...) Italian govt. forbid pratically everithing with a stupid emotional gun law called "LAW 110/75".
6 years ago things changed, and even now that the licence for collecting war weapons is still existing but no more released, we are allowed to buy AR15 in the original caliber (before 222 was the only allowed...) and in a typical pre-ban configuration. I met people at range, in Israel, and I could say that RKBA is strongly felt among Israelis. I guess that if Israel will stop to manage a critical situation of internal and external threat, and will became a "normal" country like USA or Italy, maybe there will be chances to get better gun laws. For the moment, if you want to see M16 full auto, you need only to have a walk in some crowded streets of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, and for Israelis those weapons are the symbols of a 53 years of mortal struggle with their enemies. I hope, one day, to see less M16 on the streets in the hands of policemen and soldiers, and much more out of an hardcase, lying on the bench of [i]mitvachim[/i] (ranges) all over Israel.

Were that true, then how do you explain Israel giving back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in exchange for official recognition between the two, full diplomatic relations, and peace?

Also, given the fact that the "occupied territories" were taken during the Six Days War when Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt were making grave threats against and commiting acts of war against Israel, how exactly are they illegal?  I thought the traditional conclusion of winning was "to the winner goes the spoils."  Furthermore, the total lands were taken from Jordan and Egypt, not Palestine.  Jordan has most of the land that would be considered modern Palestine, yet we don't see Hamas or the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade sending homicide bombers there.  Why is that?  Could it be because Arafat hates the Jews, as many Arab Mulsims have in that area since the 1930's?  

Palestine has never existed as a country on the face of the Earth in any shape or form.  It has only been a description of that area of the world, and even the Jews were known as Palestinians when referring to the inhabitants of that region.  Trans-Jordan, now known simply as Jordan, was intended to be the Palestinian state, and we all see how the Jordanians treat their PLO/PA cousins when it comes to living inside their borders.

"Palestine and Transjordan are one, for Palestine is the coastline and Transjordan the hinterland of the same country." - King Abdullah, at the Meeting of the Arab League, Cairo, 12th April 1948

"Let us not forget the East Bank of the (River) Jordan, where seventy per cent of the inhabitants belong to the Palestinian nation." - George Habash, leader of the PFLP section of the PLO, writing in the PLO publication Sha-un Falastinia, February 1970

"Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine but, rather, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations, both day and night. Though we are all Arabs and our point of departure is that we are all members of the same people, the Palestinian-Jordanian nation is one and unique, and different from those of the other Arab states." - Marwan al Hamoud, member of the Jordanian National Consultative Council and former Minister of Agriculture, quoted by Al Rai, Amman, 24th September 1980

That whole "illegal occupation" crap is bullshit.  What's worse is you don't even know or choose to ignore it.  Either way, please stop the ignorance.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Post from the late, unlamented RonaldSaxton -

Actually, BOG, I answered your question and gave a website to go to for verification.

When I found out that RonaldSaxton was simply you, BOG, I deleted my answer.

But now that you have been ejected, I will answer it again.

The % that Israel taxes of its GDP, is 39%, which is less than the average % of taxes that are paid by the European Union!

And the European Union has not been engaged in a War in the last several decades, as Israel has, and continues to be.

So how you like them apples, Boy?

Eric The(TheUSIsApprox29%,WhoWouldHaveGuessed?)Hun[>]:)]

BOING!!!!![shock]

Hello, is this thing on?

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...