Let me say that I'm not a Catholic and would just like to get some insight from those that practice Catholisim.  How do you feel about this scandal or (Crime) per se?   I'm amazed that these priests have not been arrested or some sort of legal rendering brought upon them, for these terrible crimes that they have committed against our young INNOCENT people.  What ticks me off the most about the whole ordeal, is that they (Priests) have the gall to say "we should forgive" they should tell that to those people who were raped and sodimized by these cowardly men.  This is very saddening to see such people that we hold in high regards are raping our children.  If a stranger did this to our child, we would be outraged and want justice immediately, but why aren't people going after these priests more?  It seems as though they are harboring a great deal of fugitives in their, so called holy organization.    What are your thoughts on the matter and what should be done too correct this madness?  I hopefully didn't offend anyone, but this whole ordeal saddens me a great deal!  

Im Catholic, and I have known that about all priests. My parents did, thats why I was never an altar boy, eventhough I begged. Everyones parents knew it also, but hey! you get money these days. The preists dont bother me, its the parents that dont watch their kids.
GG

What is the point to this post?
Is it that you are anti-Catholic?
Is it that you are anti-religion?
Who ever commits such a heinous crime should be
punished.
Are you this incensed about crimes that are committed by government officials? It happens every day more times than I care to think about.

Gun, you say  "Im Catholic, and I have known that about all priests"  Man, If I know this was happening in my church I would be geting the heck out of Dodge!  Did your parents warn you about this or something?    

Nick, I'm not anti religion or have anything against Catholics, but it seems like they (maybe YOU) turn their heads when these crimes are committed everyday "It happens every day" you say.  BTW, your comparison of our government officials and priest are like comparing apples to oranges.  We can expect the government officials to do some sort of dirty deeds, but should we expect a grown man who teaches God's word to rape a child and get away with it?  NO!  

The Church, like all other institutions that are not historically compatible with leftist thought, is now in the process of being taken over by leftists. Exactly like our educational institutions. I've recently heard sermons that could easily be mistaken for Green Party stump speeches. And it wasn't always that way.

As such, you can expect rank criminality in the Church to be increasingly coddled (read as: Cardinal Law), and blanketed under the type of postmodern sophistry that defines most leftist reasoning about criminal behavior.

They'll "reform" just enough to avoid the complete loss all authority and credibility, but not enough to risk offending the new left-leaning leadership - or in the case of Cardinal Law, risking his own power. Because he, pardon the pun, is guilty as sin. And everyone knows it.

CLP, nice observation on the LEFFTY stance, never really thought about it that away, but you're right.

This is not a flame against catholics, but I really am curious why there hasn't been more of a mass exodus away from the catholic church.  Clearly the corruption runs far up the ranks, and I wouldn't want my tithe dollars going to them.  In essence you are funding this evil.  If my denomination were found to have a scandal like this I would remove myself and my support from it.

[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020614/ap_on_re_us/bishops_abuse_49[/url]

I am a life long Catholic...althought probably not the best one.

I agree we should always forgive a sinner, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be heald responsible for their sins.

Priest that commite a crime(any crime) should face the same charges as anyone else in society, just like cops, judges and rich people.

I am disappointed in what is happening in the curches organization but that does not weaken my faith in the Catholic Religion.  They are two seperate things.  The priest are human and they fail, when they fail they should be punished and held accountable.  But my God has never failed me and he does not punish me for the sins of others.

Sgtar15

I was an alter boy back when they participated in the mass in latin. I was never molested by anyone in the church, unless you count being slapped along the side of my head for sampling the alter wine.  

I used to be Catholic, guess I still am technically but I now denounce all religions as a crutch.  Anyway, not to start any wars or anything but for all I'm concerned these priest should be swinging from a tree.  However, I believe that probably half of the people claiming to have been molested are fakes just looking to jump on the money band wagon.  I really don't know why people haven't left the church.  My theory is the same reason I left is that is all a bunch of bs.  They are just like any organization that feeds you lies and brainwashes people.  I learned morals from my parents and probably the church, but many people nowadays go because its popular and its the norm, they don't care anything about it.  Its now more of a social gathering than a religious one.  
Bill3508

Catholics are not only into perverted sex practices with CHILDREN but are associated with TERRORISTS- Irish Republican Army.

I say nuke Vatican City until it glows.

You fault the faith for the leaders. So by this line of reasoning as much as people bitch and moan about our government why don't you all just leave and quit supporting agencies such as the BATF with your tax money.
I am a Catholic and while I am disgusted with the way this pedophile stuff is being handled it does not change my core belief or keep me from putting my kids in private Catholic school.

I was a alter boy and like EOD_Guy I never was approached by a priest or had any reason to fear them.

I still have great memories and respect for the priests I have known and consider them dedicated severants of Christ, and their religion.

It should be said not every priest is homosexual and only a very small number are guilty of molesting children.

Homosexual priests have brought a disproportionate amount of shame, distrust and dishonor to the priesthood, they have tarnished the reputation and character of the many dedicated men who chose to serve their Lord as Catholic priests. As a Catholic it is very sad to witness what is happening, but in the end good will come of it.

What all religions should be waiting for now is the Homosexual community suing religions for discriminatory policies, we have certainly gotten that far.

So we should expect our government to kill innocent people?  Maybe it will be your family someday.  "It's only a dirty deed, no biggie.  At least we arent buggering little boys."    So in your own words death is not as serious as rape?  You have no fricking clue. The Bishops probably diluted themselves with the same rationale.  "It's a Priest, he asked God to forgive him.  He's not like the gang banger heathen on the street, it was just a dirty deed"   A crime is a crime, doesnt matter who it is.  

But it would be REALLY bad if they fucked goats and produced offspring that worship images of mutated 10/22s.

But I only know of one such sick-o-fuck who worships images of mutated 10/22s and is the bastard spawn of a gang-raped goat.

Oh my!

Gee, that's not a troll.

Attencio, did I push a nerve?  You're taking my post out of context.  When I said govt. doing things wrong I meant lie or take a bribe.  I didn't mean go rape a small child.  You're the one who doesn't have a clue, read your post again!  You're just another sheep in disguise.  

If these priest enjoy a good POKE, maybe we should do them a favor and send them to a 8 x 8 cell.  BTW, what would someone see in a small child?  This stuff is SICK!

Macallan, please!  Try a little bit more politeness toward the [:K] (I mean, Imbroglio)

CLP,
you are right, unfortunately.  The leftist/modernist notion that there is no such thing as sin anymore, coupled with a straying from the Church's teaching on sexuality, has brought this upon us.  Why have the bishops allowed leftists/modernists/dissenters to teach and make admission decisions in our seminaries for the past 40 years!?!?  

Zonan,
There hasn't been a mass exodus because we Catholics realize that Christ's message is true, even when the messenger is full of sin.  Matthew 23:2-3 says it well.  [blue]"The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses.  Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice."[/blue]  

I was an altar boy starting 2 weeks after my first communion until I graduated high school.  Never even had a priest hint at anything inappropriate.

Hey Looneybin,

I'm not saying you're ugly, but......

I am a Catholic. ALL pedophiles should be punished to the full extent of the law.  

Imbro...I am suprised to say that this is the first time ever that you ruffled my feathers...
You are entitled to your opinion.

Yes, it is sick.  It's called a psychological disorder.  The vast majority have been cases of ephebiphilia (homosexual attraction to adolescent boys), with a very small minority of the cases being true pedophilia (sexual attraction to prepubescent boys OR girls).

If those who are/were openly homosexual had been kept out of our seminaries (faculty and seminarians), we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.  One of my cousins left seminary for this reason (among the false teachings being taught).

What are you getting at?  That I'm a troll?  Not even close.

That I'm ugly?  How did you know?  [BD]

I am sorry but WE ARE AT WAR for the safety of the children. The church leaders are protecting the criminals and all of those who continue donate funds to the church are just as guilty and should be held just as accountable.

You are either for the children or against them.

dave223, "Imbro...I am suprised to say that this is the first time ever that you ruffled my feathers...
You are entitled to your opinion."

That is what makes these posts, so fun!  You sometimes have to ruffle some feathers too see how thick someone's skin is.  I wouldn't take any of the posts personal.  AR15 is like one big family! [:)]  

One big dysfunctional family.

I believe that many Catholics will re-evaluate their beliefs as a result of all this. Catholics are taught to revere Catholicism and its dogma above all else, and the problem is that Catholicism is as man-made as polyvinylchloride. Is it any wonder that kids who have seen their parents unquestioningly accept the pronouncements of another mortal man and encourage them to do the same are confused enough to think they should remain silent when violated by that same mortal man??

I do not think lowly of Catholics. I think many of them are among the finest people I have ever known, and I am about to be married to one...but I do believe that what is happening now will cause a spiritual awakening within the Catholic Church that is LONG overdue.

copy and concur ...thanks [:D]

First paragraph... well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Second paragraph re: spiritual awakening.... yep.  It will happen, and the Catholic Church will be holier and stronger because of it.

Imbroglio, the Catholic church has experienced many adversities over it's two thousand year history and in spite of your opinion will survive this most unfortunate controversy also.[;D]  

They are sheep and have been brainwashed, morality through the extortion of their souls.  They are afraid to leave due to the possibility of eternal repercussions.

Sound familiar to any modern political dilemas?

God Bless You!


edited to add: Is this where you wanna be when Jesus comes back.....makin fun of little ol' Catholics?

My aunt lived next door to the rectory of a Catholic church most of her life. She had a good view thru her window thru the rectory's great room window. She has mentioned a number of times thru the years that you could never imagine the things that she has seen thru that window. But she will never ever talk about any of the things that she saw. I am going to have to sit down some day and try to pry some of these sights out of her mind. By the way that she talks I believe that it was things carried on by the priest and the nuns. That opens up another whole new can of worms. Just think how long priests and nuns have been experimenting in their own extracurricular activities.
Of course this does not even begin to compare to the pedophile problems.

Well, it seems to me that about the only phrase within the first paragraph you take issue with is is "Catholics are taught to revere Catholicism and its dogma above all else, and the problem is that Catholicism is as man-made as polyvinylchloride."

Do Catholics NOT recite at Mass that they believe that there is only ONE true church, and that it is Catholic?

Oh what you meant was... that aint what you wrote
orginally posted by Nick1950:


your reply:


excuse me but where does it say lieing or taking bribes?  Oh you meant.....  I see now. But then where does this leave the ruby ridge killers that work for the BATF that you support with your tax dollars?

You know nothing is more insulting than attacking another persons faith.  You aint gonna change their mind. You might as well attack their mother.  The end result is just another troll post

The Great Scholar Atencio has spoken and we all [puke]!  Thanks for the wisdom Adicko! LMAO

I don't think anyone ....no matter their religious preference condone any type of child abuse. We put a lot of faith in people when we leave our children with. I have a son that will be 3 in October, he does not leave my or my wife's sight. When he gets older......will I let him participate in church events....YES.....will I let him be in cubscouts-eaglescouts.......YES........will I keep a close eye on him to assure his safety in whatever he does.....YES
Our children are at risk anywhere and anytime by child predators.....no one has even mentioned the scouts but there is a history of molestation there also....I am catholic....(never molested)....I was in scouts(never molested)....Is it because my parents were involved in the things I was involved with?? maybe.....
Just the thought of a parent............

I'm not Cahtholic. But it seems that the current situation is just pointing out one of the faults with this religion. The whole "protect the priests, because they are perfect" thing is just wrong. [b]ALL[/b] pedophiles should be held accountable. Hiding behind the cloak of sanctity is just a negative reflection on the whole RCC...

Scott

No, I fault the corrupt leaders that have destroyed the remnants of the catholic organization.  The point of christianity is to follow [b]Christ[/b] not the catholic church.  You are giving your money to a thoroughly corrupt organization while you could easily leave it and still be just as Christian as you ever were.

Because there are no alternatives--this is the best place to be despite its shortcomings.  There are plenty of christian alternatives to the obviously corrupt catholic church.

Thanks for the serious reply:



Yes, but Christ's message is true [b]outside of the catholic church[/b] as much as it is inside.  That was my point.  It seems a lot of catholics think that theirs is the only way to be a christian.  I don't know why that is, if catholic families try to stick to tradition more or what.  It seems that by tithing to the catholic church you are giving to the pharisees, enabling them to continue their corruption.  The church is not the gateway to God--Jesus is.

dogsdad, a point of clarification.

You are refering to the Nicene creed, which is recited by several modern churches every Sunday, including the Roman Catholic church, the Episcopalean church and the Lutheran (ELCA) church.

The word "catholic" means universal in greek. So when the Nicene creed is said, the worshipers are declaring belief in the "one true 'universal' and apostalic church". Not necessarily the Roman Catholic church.

-legrue

With a strong contingent of homosexuals.

Homosexuals are NOT born, they are recruited.

What better group to recruit than children??

What better place to find children than in a religious setting where parents teach their children to obey the "preacher?"

Its NOT really a "Catholic Church" problem. Its a problem in ANY religion that hasn't held to the Scriptural standard that homosexuality is SIN.

Not to mention SICK.

G-man,

Nonsense.

Did you form that opinion after reading some ultra conservative rag chock full of "facts" and "studies"? Or are you just parroting it?

I personally know about a dozen gay men and about a half dozen gay women. (Go ahead and ask how if you want.) Not a single one was 'recruited' or molested as a child. Being gay was something they realized they were as they grew up. Many of them would have prefered to be straight, since growing up gay did not necessarily mean they were "gay", if you get my meaning.

Furthermore, none of them molest children, nor do the "recruit" children. Several are parents and grandparents.

Please note, this is no liberal-pinko-gay-commie study I'm quoting. This is direct information from people I've come to know and respect.

I will hazard a guess that you don't know anyone who is openly gay, nor would you want too because they are too "sick". If you did, I would also hazard to guess that you might just change your mind.

-legrue

Interesting, but I don't think leftists have anything to do with gray old men condoning and sheltering the crimes of other gray old men. Old World hypocrisy is what the Catholic Church, and all organized religion, is about.

Homosexuality and abortion are horrible sins, but should you fuck a kid, well, don't do it again. We're tired of finding fresh ones for you all around the country. Come on.

I think followers need to wake up. Do you believe in the Church that much? How do you reconcile the holiness of your priests and bishops and the eternal sin of their crimes?

Another question is why be a member of the Catholic Church if you disagree with its teachings? it doesn't make sense to belong to an organization if you don't agree with it, especially when it concerns your deepsest faith. If you choose to stay, then don't say anything. You don't get to pick and choose.

We live in a land of complete religious freedom. Find another, or form your own group of believers in whatever "faith" that makes the dark days of your lives seem brighter. Jesus is a myth and the Bible is just an interesting and scholarly book.

Pray to a monkey if you want to, but don't express too much shock over this whole thing. It's been going on for a long time and even the Church can't conceal it forever.

Followers remind me of abused wives. He's no good and he beats me, but I know he loves me and I know he can change.  

Actually, I REALLY DON'T want to know how you know that many gay people.  [}:D]




Recruitment happens in MANY ways, including some HETEROSEXUAL, non-gay adult they trust (like a public school teacher) telling them "Its OK for Johnny to bang Steve."

For the record, since homosexuality is sin, and all men and women are born sinners, there is a   context under which you could say that people are born to commit sin, which occasionally evidences itself as homosexuality.

But sin is ALSO a choice. People are BORN with an innate knowledge that homosexuality is sin, both from their conscience, and from the fact that all men are born with penises, all women are born with vaginas, and that from a fairly young age, it is understood the two work together quite well.

The proof that ALL know homosexuality is WRONG is the so-called "struggle" all gays go thru - its them fighting against their conscience, and then WILLFULLY violating that conscience. Which assualts them for that violation. Any outward scorn by society is minimal compared to the internal abuse their own conscience gives them (which if they ignore long enuf, will eventually go away)





I don't DELIBERATELY associate myself with drunks, thieves, habitual liars, rapists, goatropers [}:D] or gays. As Scripture says "evil associations corrupt good manners."  (I Cor 15)

If you think you want to go at this Scripturally, lemme know, cuz what I've said AIN'T NUTHIN' compared to what Scripture says.

The reality is I do know and have worked with gay individuals. My SINGULAR message for them is the same as for any other sinner of the types I listed above - Jesus Christ commands them to repent of their sins, and place their faith in Him for salvation, and to turn completely from their former sinful ways.


The same blessed message that THANKFULLY someone preached to me, and allowed me to see things as God sees them.

Again, just say the word, and we'll do some hammer time on the relevant Scriptural texts.

If you like, earlier I made available via e-mail an EXTENSIVE Scriptural treatment on the subject of homosexuality. E-mail me, and I'll forward it. (I got some rather strong praise, EVEN from those who didn't strongly agree with me)

My best friend is a gay black Jew. Thank goodness he's not a vegan.

I'm with legrue on this one. There's no gay conspiratorial agenda to recruit or rape your children or paint the Capitol in pink. Come on, guys, it's just a different sexual preference, no different than old men liking young women, old women liking young men, or hockey chicks liking guys with mullets.

You don't have to approve of gays. They're not asking you to do so. But why vilify gay people? Just let people be.

Besides, it's the fucking vegans we have to watch.  

G-man, Thanks for the reply.


Get your mind out of the gutter [:D]


That is one interpretation, certainly. I would say that there is no "recruitment" but that a certain percentage of people are attracted to their own sex. Any "struggle" is between their own natural inclinations towards homosexuality, and the stigma society places on it.

cont...




And why not? Jesus did all the time. Of course that was one of the points the Pharasees made against him. So do you side with Jesus or the Pharasees??? (yes, I'm yanking your chain abit here)



Yep, I'm sure you do have it all mapped out, since you've obviously given this alot of thought. While it wouldn't bother me to hammer it all out, I've already seen the scriptures you would quote. Our problem will always be that we do not have the same basic understand of scripture and both of us are convinced our own understanding is correct.

I don't really know how to change that. How do I convince you I'm right when you want to do the same to me?

If you have an answer to that, let me know.

-regards,

legrue