The price seems right, I just can't find anybody to give me a review.  The kind of look interesting...

[img]http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2002-05-12/kicking_1021263923_S12_1.JPG[/img]

Perhaps the guys here can help ya: [url]http://ak.ar15.com/[/url]

Mike

There's a review in the June 2002 edition of Gun Tests. They didn't like this shotgun. Poor quality construction, sharp edges on metal parts, mag hard to insert, heavy trigger. All typical AK characteristics.

Take this review for what it's worth. IMHO Gun Tests sucks.

Hey, they liked the Carbon 15.

"Poor quality construction,"

bullshit.

"sharp edges on metal parts,"

bullshit.

"mag hard to insert,"

bullshit.

"heavy trigger."

well, it ain't a krieghoff or parrazzi!


"All typical AK characteristics."

hardly. izhmash builds a good product, considering the price. the 410 runs slicker than snot and shots very nicely.

"Take this review for what it's worth. IMHO Gun Tests sucks."

obviously, they don't have a clue.

the saiga is NOT an 1100!  

If you want to have real fun, there's at least one person who's in the process of converting a .410 Saiga to .45-70.  I know there's much more detailed info on another forum, but I can't find it at the moment.  Check [url]http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/wwwboard/messages/8100.html[/url] for some of the details.

Hey, CAMPYBOB, I was just stating what was written in the article. This is not my personal opinion. I have no experience with the Saiga shotguns. They are now illegal in CA unless purchased and registered before the ban.

I have some personal experience with the Saiga 7.62x39mm rifle. I gotta say that, for the price it's good. BUT it could use a bit of refining. As could most AK's.

The mag insertion issue was due to the reviewer not being familiar with AK mag insertion technique.

And the review was for the 12 gauge. That thing has got to kick like a mule.

We have the 12 gauge "evil" model available here.

I have not got my hands on one, yet. But there was a review on it recently. The weapons was 100% reliable and since it has an 2 pos. gas port it even worked with 24g skeet loads.

Heavy trigger...who cares on a shotgun like this. [:)]

I think they look pretty sweet.  Knowing AKs I'd say this thing would have to be damn screwed up to not be a nice shooter...  I've only read one review, and I have no idea where it was online now.  They really liked the gun though, but they were already AK fans.  Not some snobby stuckup reporter who turns their nose up at everything under $400 that isn't "refined" enough to suit them...  

CDNN Investements has several different models for sale in their catalog.  The 19 inch barrel "home defense" model looks like the one to buy to me...  I think the website to request a catalog is [url]www.cdnninvestments.com[/url]  It's also available to download in .PDF format I believe...

I'll probably pick one up sometime.  Got a couple other guns to buy first though.

Anyone know how the sights are on these? hard to tell from the pic, looks like a short radius too.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but from the pic, what makes it banned?

Its a semi- shotty with a detachable mag and thats it.  You can still get semi's with detach mags in CA (mini-14, 10/22, and quite a few others) but thats it. no pistol grips on anything semi with a detach mag.

I remembered reading a thread about these proposed conversions back on the old AK47.net.
Then I remembered something about soup.
I guess he hasn't had any luck yet.

[url]http://www.concentric.net/~ldrennan/news.html[/url]

[img]http://home.earthlink.net/~thegardenweasel/12and410ussaiga.jpg[/img]


I own a Saiga 12.  [:I]

ive shot the 12ga and 410 versions of these shotguns and they KICK ASS.

they ARE illegal in kalif, considered AWs because they are shotguns with detachable mags.

the sights on the 12ga is a fully adjustable rail with a bead in front and a large U notch in back, the 410 is a smaller U notch with bead, no rail, windage adjust only.

the recoil on the 12ga is NOT bad, its a gas operated gun, so that helps soften it, a pump 12ga would be much worse, only bad part is the plastic buttplate.

on the 12ga version it takes some finesse to lock up a fully loaded mag, holding the bolt back and inserting mag makes it much easier, this problem i hear is being corrected on newer versions, the 410 model locks up like exactly like the regular AK, then rack the bolt.

the 410 bump fires like a Dream, VERY fun gun, although the one shot shoots a bit high, it has a kobra red dot sight on it to cure this.

i think they are great guns, its got nice AK quality and is a REAL Russian gun, take a look at one and decide if the trigger pull is bad and if sharp edges exist.

JPFO and Aaron Zelman -- wrote up a review recently on the 12ga version, dont have the link but i think its on there page

the 45-70 conversion on the 410 model is an OLD attempt which failed for some reason.

What makes them illegal is the AK receiver. It is considered an AK series weapon and is specifically named on the banned list. And semi automatic shotguns w/detachble mags are considered assault weapons in California.

Well sort of. Semi auto shotguns w/detachable mags are illegal now. Pump actions w/detachable mags are still legal.

YES that is correct, thanks for the correction, bad case O brain fade