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Posted: 6/6/2002 1:12:16 AM EDT
[#1]
I am Union. That was very wrong. They should have helped landscape the area for free.We are not all like that. They are Pigs!
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:18:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Sure, pick out some wildly extreme example and paint all of us union members with it.
I'm sure you appreciate it when the anti-gunners do that to us. Fuck off. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:28:56 AM EDT
[#3]
One of the main reasons I live in my state is because it is a RIGHT TO WORK STATE. Why should I be FORCED to pay union dues to THUGS and CRIMINALS just so that I can have a job? Dont get me wrong though, My Great Grandfather told me the stories of when he was a coal miner and was shot at and held captive, so that he could not join the unions when workers were being under paid and poorly treated. But those days are long gone. And now the unions are abused by whiney, lazy, unmotivated people. Joe Schmuck in Michigan shouldnt be makin $10+ dollars an hour just to put nuts on bolts. Especially when you could hire 2 people south of the border "or 2 HighSchool Students" to do the same job. Joe Schmuck needs to get an education and get a real job. Losers....
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:31:37 AM EDT
[#4]
It is a simple fact that socialism does not work, we have been shown through out history of it's fallacy,k but those that are sucking at the teat of it will have all the excuses. All the while their jobs are being moved to Mexico.
It would be funny if peoples lives where not at stake. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:47:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Joe Schmuck in Michigan shouldnt be makin $10+ dollars an hour just to put nuts on bolts. Especially when you could hire 2 people south of the border "or 2 HighSchool Students" to do the same job. I suspect ten bucks is a bit low, but why do you think so many "American" cars are built in Mexico? Eddie |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:48:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Sure, pick out some wildly extreme example and paint all of us union members with it. I'm sure you appreciate it when the anti-gunners do that to us. Fuck off. In my experiences it wasn't an extreme example. In fact it is fairly par for the course. In my time working in union shops as a "scab", coercion, intimidation and hysterics over petty issues were the order of the day. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:51:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I suspect ten bucks is a bit low, but why do you think so many "American" cars are built in Mexico? Eddie Well I know thats why they are made down there. I was just using that example to push a point. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 4:01:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Boomer, to many of us YOU (hard working, respectable) are the exception. Nothing against you personally. Unions are socialist. That doesn't mean there are not a few good people in the system. The vast majority of union workers seem to be in because they have to. The rest seem to worship the union because of the unmerited gain it has got them. Again, I am not saying Boomer is an unscrupled ass. Just giving my observation. Planerench out.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 4:26:55 AM EDT
[#9]
When I started out as a lawyer in Shreveport, our firm represented every union in town, with the exception of operating engineers (which had a state-wide 'local' based in New Orleans).
What I remember is that most of the grievances we handled on a day-to-day basis were pure and unadulterated BS! I remember one case of two IBEW workers out at large telephone manufacturer, male and female, who were engaged in a bit of oral sex in the warehouse ('just lift that leather apron up a bit, Sir') when a group of management types walked in on them. Both were 'on the clock' and were fired immediately and sent home. The female moved away from Shreveport, but the male worker decided to fight his firing. Well, to make a long story short, he won! Even though he was our client, he should never have won that round at all, but such is the power of unions - [b]you simply can't screw up badly enough to get yourself fired, permanently![/b] The female worker was an idiot - she should have done the same thing and she would have won, as well. Eric The(AndBeenAVeryPopularPersonToBoot)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 4:40:57 AM EDT
[#10]
I am a Union member and take exception to some of the statements in this tread. I am a Union Carpenter in the City of Philadelphia and we as a union perform many acts of charity, from building handicapped ramps to childrens play areas.
In the building trades unions if you don't perform, you are a history. There is no protection if you do not carry your weight. I am a firm believer that there will be no unions unless you protect and make profitable the company you are working for. No union contractors...no unions! The school district holds a contract with this particular union and they know the rules. They should have made prior arrangements with the groundskeepers, possibly having them there with the volunteers and helping out. I know i will be blasted for that, but that is the agreement they made. And you guys that need legislation to work in your state, God Bless you! I hope you are not living hand to mouth. A union carpenter working in this area makes around $37 an hour including benefits. A non union or open shop carpenter may make $12 to $14 dollars an hour and no benefits. Now tell me how you would like to work. Remember I said if you don't perform you don't last. I am not "Joe Union", but I want to make a fair living, have benefits and enjoy life. Working non - union in this business is no place. If there were no UAW and the Mexicans were still making less per hour than a guy in Detroit, the work would still go to Mexico. It is all about bucks and always will be..... |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 4:59:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Well thanks for the posts, they have been trying to get a union where i work for over 10 years, but are still far short on the number of members needed. I am on the fence now as to sign up or not. You see i work for IBM, (23 + years) and in the last 10 years have seen over 20,000 of my fellow workers get the "you have been selected for a resource action" letter. I don't know if its corporate greed or just the state of the IT business these days (lay offs). I do see that IBM Europe does not have anywhere near the amount of lay offs and they are union. so posts like this will help me make this decision.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 5:07:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Awwww Christ..........
Here we go again......... [img]http://www.ar15.com/members/albums/Lumpy223%2FEngLogo%2EGIF[/img] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 5:25:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Awwww Christ.......... Here we go again......... [img]http://www.ar15.com/members/albums/Lumpy223%2FEngLogo%2EGIF[/img] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 5:40:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Anothergene, I understand that a union will not stop layoffs in slow times, but maybe they could be done differently. when our workforce was supplemented with contractors we were told they were a buffer and would be the first to go before employee layoffs, well we lost 8,000 last week and most contractors are still here (at 5 to 10% less in rates) , company switched from standard pension plan to cash balance plan , all employees less than 40 were forced to take new plan. Want to guess what plan the majority of recent lay offs were in ? No senority considerations in lay offs . etc. Can a union correct these things ?
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Posted: 6/6/2002 5:58:02 AM EDT
[#15]
First let me say that I am not a Union member and don't even work in a field with a union.
You guys crack me up, if you look at what working conditions used to be like before unions you would be willing to thank unions for the progress they have made. Yes there are abuses in the system by unions, there are just as many other groups who abuse the system. If you look the states that usually have the lowest wage earnings for the people in it, they usually don't have a strong union history in it. I guess you guys would like to go back to the 6 day work week at 12 hours a day and get paid whatever the owner of the company felt like letting you live on. How easy we forget the past. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:03:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: First let me say that I am not a Union member and don't even work in a field with a union. You guys crack me up, if you look at what working conditions used to be like before unions you would be willing to thank unions for the progress they have made. Yes there are abuses in the system by unions, there are just as many other groups who abuse the system. If you look the states that usually have the lowest wage earnings for the people in it, they usually don't have a strong union history in it. I guess you guys would like to go back to the 6 day work week at 12 hours a day and get paid whatever the owner of the company felt like letting you live on. How easy we forget the past. Abuse? Give it a rest, there is no excuse for socialism, none at all. Don't like the "abuse"? Go somewhere else, better yet, start your own company, I am sure that there are more than enough union "brothers" who would be willing to lay their life savings, and max out their credit cards to start a business with you. Damn, the excuses people come up with to take money from people who deserve it to hand it out to people who don't is *always* amazing. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:07:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Yes, Rogerb, a good union can correct most of those issues, but don't expect miracles. We have been losing ground in benefits, treatment, conditions AND workforce for years where I am. Now with less than half the hourly employees, the workload remains the same, their solution...more supervisors! But at least they are not running rampant over us and there is some recourse. Now if a production mistake is made, you get written up and the union has to prove you are not guilty and not at fault. Most of the time its raw materials or antiquated machinery, but you still get written up. We actually need a stronger union to prevent that sort of thing from happening in the first place. On the other hand, we have some workers who's only job seems to be to mess things up, and it goes on and on. And they are not touched! That has nothing to do with the union, just mismanagement, pure and simple. At this point, you have little to lose. In this case...UNION YES! People who never needed one, wouldn't understand, perhaps. Good luck.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:09:16 AM EDT
[#18]
23 states in the Union are 'right to work' states, which means that in order to earn your living you do not have to belong to any group or organization.
Here's the list: Alabama 1953 Arizona 1946 1947 Arkansas 1944 1947 Florida 1968 1944 Georgia 1947 Idaho 1985* Indiana (applicable to school employees) 1995 Iowa 1947 Kansas 1958 Louisiana 1976 Mississippi 1960 1954 Nebraska 1946 1947 Nevada 1951 North Carolina 1947 North Dakota 1947 Oklahoma 2001 2001 South Carolina 1954 South Dakota 1946 1947 Tennessee 1947 Texas 1947 Utah 1955 Virginia 1947 Wyoming 1963 The years beside each state indicates the year that the state adopted Right To Work as part of its laws or Constitution, or both. Looks like most states which did so were either Old South, Midwestern, or Western. Eric The(Informative)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:25:56 AM EDT
[#19]
And we have a mandated "minimum wage" but it has no bearing on any "maximum wage" that most CEO's THINK they are worth. Then when the company folds, they get handsomely "compensated" for ruining the company as they blame unions, amongst other things, for any failures. The very same people that will scream at you for being one minute late punching in, IMO, are the problem, as much or moreso than any lazy worker, union or not.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:28:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: First let me say that I am not a Union member and don't even work in a field with a union. You guys crack me up, if you look at what working conditions used to be like before unions you would be willing to thank unions for the progress they have made. Yes there are abuses in the system by unions, there are just as many other groups who abuse the system. If you look the states that usually have the lowest wage earnings for the people in it, they usually don't have a strong union history in it. I guess you guys would like to go back to the 6 day work week at 12 hours a day and get paid whatever the owner of the company felt like letting you live on. How easy we forget the past. Abuse? Give it a rest, there is no excuse for socialism, none at all. Don't like the "abuse"? Go somewhere else, better yet, start your own company, I am sure that there are more than enough union "brothers" who would be willing to lay their life savings, and max out their credit cards to start a business with you. Damn, the excuses people come up with to take money from people who deserve it to hand it out to people who don't is *always* amazing. I think you mis read what I stated, for the most part companies now do a good job in caring for its employees, mainly because of the driving force to find good help. My refrence is to history and if you bothered to look at it, you would see that for the most part unions helped reform the working system in the county. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:30:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: 23 states in the Union are 'right to work' states, which means that in order to earn your living you do not have to belong to any group or organization. Here's the list: Alabama 1953 Arizona 1946 1947 Arkansas 1944 1947 Florida 1968 1944 Georgia 1947 Idaho 1985* Indiana (applicable to school employees) 1995 Iowa 1947 Kansas 1958 Louisiana 1976 Mississippi 1960 1954 Nebraska 1946 1947 Nevada 1951 North Carolina 1947 North Dakota 1947 Oklahoma 2001 2001 South Carolina 1954 South Dakota 1946 1947 Tennessee 1947 Texas 1947 Utah 1955 Virginia 1947 Wyoming 1963 The years beside each state indicates the year that the state adopted Right To Work as part of its laws or Constitution, or both. Looks like most states which did so were either Old South, Midwestern, or Western. Eric The(Informative)Hun[>]:)] And I would be willing to bet if you looked at the average household incomes nationwide you would find that these states have the lowest wage earings for the people that live in them. If I remember Virginia is ranked dead last in what people are paid compared to people who perform the same job in other states. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:55:18 AM EDT
[#22]
And if you looked harder, these states are probably the same ones that permit Class 3 ownership, concealed carry, home schooling, death penalty, reasonable restictions on abortions, Republican governors, legislatures, congressional delegations, and Senators.
In other words, [u]these[/u] states trust their citizens. Eric The(UnlikeSomeOthersICouldName)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:00:21 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: And if you looked harder, these states are probably the same ones that permit Class 3 ownership, concealed carry, home schooling, death penalty, reasonable restictions on abortions, Republican governors, legislatures, congressional delegations, and Senators. In other words, [u]these[/u] states trust their citizens. Eric The(UnlikeSomeOthersICouldName)Hun[>]:)] This is why I live in Virginia and not NJ anymore [:D] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:11:23 AM EDT
[#24]
[b]Voila![/b]
I'm not overly fond of the way management runs companies either, but the shareholders 'own' the companies, they choose the directors, and if they choose wrongly, [u]they[/u] are the ones who lose their capital investments. Meanwhile, the workers move on to their next jobs! If being born wealthy in this country meant that you were always going to die wealthy, and if being born poor meant that you were always going to die poor, [u]then[/u] we might all have a complaint about the unfairness of it all! But as it stands now, who knows who's going to make it and who's not? Life is unfair, but it is equally unfair to all! Eric The(AllThingsInPerspective)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:16:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: [b]Voila![/b] Life is unfair, but it is equally unfair to all! Eric The(AllThingsInPerspective)Hun[>]:)] Agreed, life is unfair for almost everyone, there are still some that have better odds, but that is what makes this country what it is. I don't think I would trade it for any other system at this time. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:21:25 AM EDT
[#26]
[img]http://detnews.com/history/hoffa/images/2.jpg[/img]
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:30:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Whoa, [b]Scarecrow[/b], is this one of those 'Where Are They Now?' articles?
Eric The(Isn'tHeStillAtThatStadium?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:43:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Sure, pick out some wildly extreme example and paint all of us union members with it. I'm sure you appreciate it when the anti-gunners do that to us. Fuck off. I couldn't have said it better. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:47:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I think you mis read what I stated, for the most part companies now do a good job in caring for its employees, mainly because of the driving force to find good help. My refrence is to history and if you bothered to look at it, you would see that for the most part unions helped reform the working system in the county. I would agree that in the past unions were needed to improve the working conditions of many. I am unsure if they are still needed today though. I have experienced the double edge sword of union membership and civil service which makes it impossible to fire the most worthless piece of crap. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:28:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Using a broad brush to paint anyone or anything is generally a bad idea.
There are good unionists, there are bad unionists. There are good business owners, there are bad business owners. IMO, The two guys in this case are mean spirited a-holes. IF their contract was violated, then they and their shop steward could cut the school a break given the circumstances. I'm sure when their contract was negotiated and this clause about landscaping put in, everyone was concerned with the school district outsourcing the work for less money, NOT for volunteers honoring a dead child. Jeez, WHERE IS THE COMMON SENSE??? [stick] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:47:33 AM EDT
[#31]
edited this all out because it's all pointless. Go be good socialists.
Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:59:15 AM EDT
[#32]
@ the World Trade Center. The first guys in There were UNION, Firefighters, Police. The Second group were UNION, Iron workers and construction guys.
I'm not union. And yes sometimes they can be a pain. My father was a UNION machinist with American Airlines. So I can see both sides of the coin. Typically they do good work. The ones in the article are bad eggs. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:10:52 AM EDT
[#33]
But the very fact that these two disgruntled union workers will be supported by their union is what gives everyone a bad taste in their mouths about unions.
Shouldn't the union be worried about its public image, to the point it would say to these guys 'Shut the F up'? And even in the aftermath of the WTC tragedy, didn't we hear some union-centered disputes about overtime claims, etc.? I refuse to be a member of the American Bar Association because it supports gun control and abortion on demand. I refuse to be a member of the Dallas Bar Association for the same reason. I've cut myself off from client referrals from those organizations because I'm not a member, nor do I attend their functions. Because I'm not [b]simply[/b] an attorney, as some would love to believe, but a [b]citizen[/b] concerned about his country, which is not what I believe most attorney associations are about. BTW, I [u]am[/u] a member of the Texas State Bar, 'cause the laws [u]they[/u] made say I have to be! Otherwise.... Eric The(Rebellious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:28:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: @ the World Trade Center. The first guys in There were UNION, Firefighters, Police. The Second group were UNION, Iron workers and construction guys. Only because they work in a city where they don't have the right to those occupations unless they they are part of the union. Are you saying that nonunion firemen, police, and construction workers would be any less diligent? Give me a break. This illustrates my problem with unions. These two guys have the backing of their union on this - this doesn't really look like an extreme example. They're carping about losing a couple days' overtime when the town is grieving over the loss of an 8-yr old child. They and their union did a stupid job of picking their battle. They should complain when they have something to really complain about. You union guys ALWAYS bring up how bad working conditions were for labor before the union movement. Yet you all appear to be clueless that stupid PR moves like this on the part of unions make people forget that. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:31:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: [img]http://detnews.com/history/hoffa/images/2.jpg[/img] Okay, who found the corpse and where? Shesh, I think he'd look better dead... |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:34:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Unions=The original American Socialist Party
Sgtar15 |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:39:56 AM EDT
[#37]
I am a UNION member.
I need to be. I "have" to be. I don't agree with 99% of the BS that goes on, yet, I know without the Local acting on my behalf, I could conceivably be in jeapordy of losing my job on a whim by the management. The saying in Transit is: "You're only one accident away from losing your job." Too true. In general, the Unions represent people who are trained and skilled professionals in their chosen field. I look at the Unions as Attorneys to assist you in keeping your job under adverse or unfair circumstances. Safety on the job, whatever job it is, is the #1 reason for having the representation, I think. ( A different kind of 'right to work' ) As for the "SOCIALIST" look of the Unions...well, take a gander at the Amalgamated Transit Union banner on their home page...say, that doesn't look at all like most of the images we used to see of "workers" in the USSR, does it?!!![;D] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/BusMaster007%2FMETRO%2520ATUMural2%2Egif[/img] Personally, I'd rather see a different image. Something a LOT more AMERICAN looking. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:47:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Jeez, WHERE IS THE COMMON SENSE??? [stick] Sorry - I was in the head. [:D] Using a broad brush to paint anyone or anything is generally a bad idea. There are good unionists, there are bad unionists. Well here's one broad brush that is true. Whether you consider that to be "good" or not is a judgment call. There are NO good unions. Becasue unions = socialism and legalized blackmail, IN EVERY CASE. My experience is this - many gun owners LIKE certain parts of socialism, if it produces some sort of windfall for them. Unions are socialism that produces a windfall for some people who happen to be gun owners. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:03:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Sure, pick out some wildly extreme example and paint all of us union members with it. Wildly extreme example? A number of years ago, when I was employed by one of the now-defunct Steelmakers here in PA, I was called in the middle of the night to check a malfunctioning system control computer. When I entered the Control Room (it was air-conditioned) I found a Union Worker sleeping on a bench. I turned on the lights, he got up, began cursing, and left. The next day I was informed that he had filed a grevience against me for disturbing him!! Wildly extreme example? Actually more like commonplace. I could go on and on and on........ While this is my experience with one particular union and one particular local, it did much to sour my view of unions as a whole. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:20:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Wildly extreme example? Actually more like commonplace. I could go on and on and on........ When I was in high school, my mom experienced some of the plesantries of those "nice union folks." She was trying to earn money to put me thru Christian school (in addition to the forced gov't rape of my parents via property taxes, 90% of which went to the Publik Skuul Sistim, which I only attended ONE year) Her employer escorted her via locked, security transport past the scabs out on the picket line, who threatened her phsical harm, saying they knew where she lived. Nice people. Earlier in her lifetime in Washington D.C. she encountered union folk putting sugar in the gas tank of peoples cars (which would destroy the engine) and slashing peoples tires. Nice people, some of those union folk. At SOME point, you union folk need to recognize that the exception HAS BECOME the rule. And you need to act on principle and get out da union, EVEN IF it causes you financial harm. But all that is beside the point. The simple reality is unions = socialism. And far as I'm concerned, there are NO part-time socialists. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:26:43 AM EDT
[#41]
I really hoped this thread would be about [b]onions[/b], because I really like [b]onions[/b]... raw, fried, chopped, diced, sliced, mmmmmmmm [b]onions[/b]. But, oh well.
[b][red]Unions[/red][/b] punish hard workers and reward lazy ones. They're completely [b]anti-capitalistic[/b], and politicians love them. I won't [b]ever[/b] have anything to do with such organizations. I'm not going any further on this because ... Quoted: ... it's all pointless. Go be good socialists. Like he said. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:46:21 AM EDT
[#42]
Hopefully someday Washington wll be a right to work state !
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:46:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: A number of years ago, when I was employed by one of the now-defunct Steelmakers here in PA, I was called in the middle of the night to check a malfunctioning system control computer. When I entered the Control Room (it was air-conditioned) I found a Union Worker sleeping on a bench. I turned on the lights, he got up, began cursing, and left. How about providing a little context to the situation. There's always two sides to every coin, and I'm not about to form an opinion based solely on yours. I'm quite sure it is impossible that you interruption may have occurred during a scheduled break or meal period during which he has the negotiated right not to be disturbed. We have similiar anti-fatigue policies where I work. Nice try, though. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:52:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Hopefully someday Washington wll be a right to work state ! That would be fine with me. No one should be forced to be a union member. If anything, such laws might give unions a cause to better represent their members. Of course, the flip side of the coin is that non-union members should not be entitled to negotiated benefits in any way and should have to get whatever they can on their own. My guess is that you wouldn't see much of a drop in union membership. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:58:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: A number of years ago, when I was employed by one of the now-defunct Steelmakers here in PA, I was called in the middle of the night to check a malfunctioning system control computer. When I entered the Control Room (it was air-conditioned) I found a Union Worker sleeping on a bench. I turned on the lights, he got up, began cursing, and left. How about providing a little context to the situation. There's always two sides to every coin, and I'm not about to form an opinion based solely on yours. I'm quite sure it is impossible that you interruption may have occurred during a scheduled break or meal period during which he has the negotiated right not to be disturbed. We have similiar anti-fatigue policies where I work. Nice try, though. Are you serious? I mean ARE YOU SERIOUS??? He posted that there was a problem in the conrol room, went there to check on the problem, turned on the lights so he could see, and you're worried about whether the soundly sleeping union guy was disturbed on a break? THAT'S the mentality that the opponents to unions are talking about. Management is always not only wrong, but actively plotting to screw the union. God help us if nuke plants are union shops. "Sir, we're having a meltdown, I need to scramble the reactor." "Not now, you insensitive management jerk. Can't you see Jones is in there taking a break. His brothers negotiated a right not to be disturbed. Cool your jets until his antifatigue period is over." That makes me want to puke. I won't post any personal experiences because as an employment attorney, I know I'm dealing with extreme cases. Let's put it this way, though, I have PLENTY of work defending big, bad management against claims by union members. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:58:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: They're completely [b]anti-capitalistic[/b], and politicians love them. Yes, that obviously explains the successful joint efficiency and productivity improvement programs in which the unions I have belonged to have been partners. [:rolleyes:] Us union workers are just too stupid to understand that the companies we are employed by need to turn a profit if they are to stay in business and continue to employ us, right? [:rolleyes:] If you don't know what you are talking about, perhaps it's best to just keep yer' yap shut. I'm going to guess that you wuld like to have been an employee of a hugely pro-capitalism company like Enron, right? |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 11:02:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: A number of years ago, .... I found a Union Worker sleeping on a bench. I turned on the lights, he got up, began cursing, and left. How about providing a little context to the situation. There's always two sides to every coin, and I'm not about to form an opinion based solely on yours. I heard him tell his side quite clearly - he cursed, and WALKED OUT. If he had the negotiated right to "sleep on the job" he'd have cursed and rolled over away from the light. OJ ran. Guilty people run. I'm quite sure it is impossible that you interruption may have occurred during ..... the negotiated right not to be disturbed. I gotta negotiate that into my contract. The "right not to be disturbed." "Hey boss, this assignment is disturbing me. You got no right...." No wonder America is going to "hell in a hand biscuit...." |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 11:04:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I could conceivably be in jeapordy of losing my job on a whim by the management. Welcome to the party pal. Most of us live with that threat daily. Would I like protection? Yes, but my employer would also like a guarantee of an endless stream of incoming business. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 11:05:38 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Are you serious? I mean ARE YOU SERIOUS??? He posted that there was a problem in the conrol room, went there to check on the problem, turned on the lights so he could see, and you're worried about whether the soundly sleeping union guy was disturbed on a break? Yes, I'm dead serious. Yo've obviously never worked alternative work schedules before. It can be very difficult on your body. This is why anti-fatigue programs are being brought about. God help us if nuke plants are union shops. "Sir, we're having a meltdown, I need to scramble the reactor." "Not now, you insensitive management jerk. Can't you see Jones is in there taking a break. His brothers negotiated a right not to be disturbed. Cool your jets until his antifatigue period is over." Of course, I'm sure you'd sleep much better at night knowing that the guy working in nuclear reactor, operating a train carrying hazardous material through your town, driving a truck down the highway, or flying a commercial airliner might just be being pushed farther and harder than the human body can endure and is in emminent danger of casing a fatigue related mishap with potentially disastrous results if he loses his focus and concentration for even a split second. Sweet dreams. But like I said, in your comfy little 9-5 world you likely just don't understand it and never will. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 11:07:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: 23 states in the Union are 'right to work' states, which means that in order to earn your living you do not have to belong to any group or organization. Here's the list: Alabama 1953 Arizona 1946 1947 Arkansas 1944 1947 Florida 1968 1944 Georgia 1947 Idaho 1985* Indiana (applicable to school employees) 1995 Iowa 1947 Kansas 1958 Louisiana 1976 Mississippi 1960 1954 Nebraska 1946 1947 Nevada 1951 North Carolina 1947 North Dakota 1947 Oklahoma 2001 2001 South Carolina 1954 South Dakota 1946 1947 Tennessee 1947 Texas 1947 Utah 1955 Virginia 1947 Wyoming 1963 The years beside each state indicates the year that the state adopted Right To Work as part of its laws or Constitution, or both. Looks like most states which did so were either Old South, Midwestern, or Western. Eric The(Informative)Hun[>]:)] And I would be willing to bet if you looked at the average household incomes nationwide you would find that these states have the lowest wage earings for the people that live in them. If I remember Virginia is ranked dead last in what people are paid compared to people who perform the same job in other states. And I would be willing to bet that if you looked a little further into it, you would find that things are a lot less costly there for consumers in those states that don't require or encourage union membership. See the differnce in housing costs in CA versus VA for one example. Also see the state income tax differences in the right to work states versus other states. The vast majority, if not all state contract work in CA is union work. The vast majority of state employees here are union, and we pay more in taxes to support that. I agree that unions equal higher wages, but we all pay for it with higher consumer costs and taxes. Non union construction= less constructio costs =more affordable housing and office space Non-union grocery industry= less cost to grocers and food producers= less expensive food and groceries to consumers Non union school systems = less expensive school systems = less property taxes to support higher union payrolls in the school system Non union police, fire and medical services= less costly services to the community= less taxes and consumer outlay to support them= more money left in the pockets of the people I think you can see the patern. Of course there are some exeptions where consumers can not get away from paying for extra union costs, such as automobiles. As far as locally prduced goods and services, people in those right to work states who don't always make as much as union workers in other states are compensated with better consumer prices on goods, and less expensive services and lower taxes. |
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