Full-face or 3/4?

Are the kind with movable chin guard (Nolan for example) good or not?

What about standards?
Some say DOT approved, others say DOT approved and give a number.  Some say SNELL approved.  Others, not.

What should we look for?

Which is more likely to break your neck while saving your head? (No joke, heard something about some helmets causing this in some instances, but can't remember what kind).

Thanks.

For max saftey you want a fixed full face DOT AND SNELL approved. Perhaps the most importand piece of riding gear that you DONT want to go cheap on! My dad paid $400 on his last helmet (A Bell)10 years ago and it survived several accidents (NOTE: ONE SHOULD REPLACE A HELMET ANYTIME IT MAKES A FORCEFULL IMPACT)
He didn't because he had regular road rash due to animals etc. He once hit 2 deer at once at 3am and still picked it back up and rode to work.

BrenLover

I always preferred a Snell approved helmet. I'm not sure what the current year is for the latest Snell rating, but check it, and be sure to get the latest standard.

The issue here is just how bad an accident do you intend to have?  Softer padding will leave you with less headache after a minor accident. A Snell approved helmet is generally meeeting tougher standards, and will absorb more injury in a higher speed wreck, but at low speeds the harder padding doesn't give as much.

I wear glasses, and always used the Bell Star  full face helmets 9 months of the year. I used a Bell 3/4 style helmet in the heat of summer so I wouldn't bake my head when temps hit 110 degrees.

The torque applied to your neck in a slide/roll situation is proportional to the protrusion of the helmet.  That is, a helmet that has a lower face protector or face shield that sticks out 8 inches has a better chance of unscrewing your head from your neck than one that sticks out 4 inches.

Spend what it takes to get a good helmet, properly sized.  It's your head, spend what you think it's worth.

I've taken a spill on a bike at about 35 mph.. Trust me, you want a full face helmet.

My buddy's HJC is probably the most comfortable full face that I've ever tried on.

These Schuberth's look good, though I'm unsure of their Snell/DOT ratings:

[img]http://catalog.ascycles.com/images/felice/concept.01[/img]

A WWII German helmet will do...[:)]

THE BEST FULL FACE (dot+snell)...... I do'nt care how hot it is!......and thats speaking from to many spills to remember.

I like the idea of a flip up front but wonder about how the mechniasm will hold up when striking a hard object. A joint/pivot point will give easier than a fixed solid area giving possibly more protection under a harder hit.

That being said I have not ever used one and have no 1st hand info on how good they are.
BrenLover

I nod in disbelief when I see these harley guys wearing full "HARLEY" leather then wear a Damn skull cap or nothing at all! INSANE!!

Look into those jeans that are lines with kevlar if you dont want full leather, look the same and are quite comfortable.

Brenlover

I suggeest you pick a price range and try several on.  A good bike shop should be able to help you select a helmet that fits properly.

I have had both Bell and Shoei.  I like the Shoei over the Bell, better fit, air flow, sound protection, and vision.

If this is your first motorcycle I suggest that you take the Motorcycle RiderCourse.  They address a lot of the basics including cornering and emergency stops.  The cost is approximatley $125.00 but most states will not require that you take the riding test if you complete the ssafety course and your insurance company will probably give you a discount.

Just went through this 2 months ago. went with HJC flip up full face because I wear glasses. It is almost impossible to get your glasses on with a fixed full face. I bought HJC on-line for $190 but went to local MC shop to try on first. Saved $50 going on line Bell is no longer top dog matter of fact they aren't even made in the usa anymore. Top dogs are Shoei and Arai but a leading MC consumer group rated the Nolan and HJC flipups best buys. Keep the shining side up.

I am posting this based on my knowledge of off road helmets, but since the standards and manufactures are the same I think most of the info is going to be the same.

For the standards:
I havent seen anything that wasnt Snell approved for sale in a long time.  Used to (10 years ago) there were helmets that were DOT only and some might be DOT and Snell.  I figured with liability being such a big concern now that everything would be Snell approved since in theory that is the highest standard.

Regarding manufactures:

Almost all the helmets are now being made by HJC/KBC (I may have the letters a little wrong) in Korea.  They make helmets for almost everybody and just put different logos and paint schemes on them.  Take for example Fox, Thor, and Answer helmets prices range from $100 to $300, probably the average price is less than $200. All are Snell approved and none of them look alike.  They have different fabric liners made according to the purchasers specs.  All of them are made in Korea by the same company.  Why Korea?  Because helmet manufacturing requires a lot of labor most of the shells are still made mainly of fiberglass and have to be done in layers.

Helmets that arent made in Korea or Shoei, Arai, and Bell.

Shoe and Arai are made in Japan.  

Bell used to be made in the US, but is now made in Spain (at least I think that is right it might be Italy) The quality of Bell helmets went down when they moved to Europe.

Biggest difference between Korean and Non-Korean made helmets is the price.  Labor is the biggest price factor in helmet manufacturing and is cheap in Korea.  Korean helmets average less than $200, Non-Koreans start at $450 and go up.

Having said all that I have an Arai Helmet that cost me around $475.  I based my decision on ventilation, fit, looks, and the Arai is light weight.  I also have a Korean made $150 Answer helmet as my back up that I think is every bit as safe it just insnt quite as comfortable.  

My advice get a full face helmet that is Snell approved that fits your head comfortably.  

Also regarding the stories of helmets breaking necks.  I think most of those stories come from people who dont want to wear helments.  If you hit the ground hard enough to break your neck think about what that hit is going to do to your head.  

I agree with the other guys about getting a full face helmet.  The Snell testing is pretty rigorous and includes impact and penetration testing.  Don't scrimp on a cheap helmet.  I don't think you can buy a non DOT helmet anymore.  It doesn't take much force to pop your melon, and road rash isn't very appealing to the opposite sex.

Try on different brands, some people have Shoei heads, some people have Arai heads, some people have Bell heads.  They all fit a little different.  You should always replace a helmet after a crash.  They destroy themselves in the process of protecting you.

Most have some kind of venting so it is not too hot.  Some of the cheaper helmets don't vent as well as the more expensive ones that actually work.  You won't exactly feel the wind in your hair, but your head won't fry either.  You can also pop open the visor a little to let even more air in.

GOOD quality gloves are also important.  They can save a lot of grief if you go down.  Mangled digits suck!

Another vote for the Snell rating.  A good helmet is not only safer, but more comfy and less noisy too.  I have several friends who race motocross and superbikes (regular top 5 finishers in our AMA district in class), they turned me on to HJC.  I like them alot, I have one motocross helmet, and a pair of street helmets one for me and one for my wife.

The most important factor in a helmet besides that Snell rating it FIT.  It is imperative that your helmet fits right.  It should be snug enough to not shift around on your head and not have any slop on your grape in any direction.  A good fit will give you that without being uncomfortable.  DO NOT buy a helmet on line, unless you KNOW what size you need.  If the helmet you like is 5 or 10 dollars more at your local/favorite bike store, just buy it there.  Not only will you be sure it fits right, but you will be helping your relationship with your local store.  Most shops can sell you stuff at the same price as online or catalog merchants anyway, you just have to get to know them so you can get the "C" price.  And yes, you need a full face helmet.

OK I am one of those dirty harley bikers, not a RUB (rich urban biker) nor a poser, I pack a lot of miles on each year and have ridden all four corners of this great land, never trailer and always putt to get where I want to go.
Takeing minor offense to the statements of wearing leathers and smaller helmets.

What makes my side hurt from laughing is seeing all the punks riding with $400.00 helments shorts and flip flops.  With that much road rash I would wish to be out.  

The extra 3-4-8 pounds on your head when you go down will get your head wacking around and do some significant damage to your neck.  A smaller lighter helmet that will help out most of your skull sliding down the street.

It is your choice on what to wear, I would most strongly suggest always wearing boots, gloves, goggles or glasses, jeans as a minimum, leather if cold enough (jacket and chaps) again the helmet is your choice, but a lighter 3/4 is my choice and my suggestion.

TRW
I'm not going bald, just getting more head

TRW882

I agree with you concerning the folks that wear an expensive helmet with shorts and sandals.

I usually wear jeans, boots, gloves, and a jacket either leather or ballistic nylon.  I have not put my motorcycle down yet but I did a little tank slap at 60 mph and almost lost it.  I was very happy that I was wearing my protective clothing and a helmet.

Aimless, I did not say neck breaking, one of the other strange sports I am into is barefoot waterskiing and know alot about how much muscle damage you can do to your neck from your head getting jerked around, rapid stops from 40 MPH the water is as hard as cement and all you do is bounce.  It is only worse with a bigger helmet on.  I have never put a bike down on the road, know lots of folks that have, in my younger days of MX racing I spent a little time flying through hay bales at the track and branches on trails.

One thing to consider when wearing any of the new super fabrics, if they are constructed with petrochemicals (plastics) when you are sliding down the road, a bit of friction will develop heat.  I would not want to have molten plastic mixed in with the road rash.

my thoughts.
TRW

If I remember correctly, only full face helmets can get a SNELL rating, not 3/4 or 1/2.  I also believe that the flip up style full face are not snell rated because the flip up front has no structural integrity.  Most of the crotch rocket crowd won't know this because they only wear full face, and have never encountered or dealt with the open face variety.

no offense taken, if folks here are that thin skinned perhaps they should stay at home where it is safe and the won't get there panties in a wad.
I am not familiar with aerostich, could be that they have solved the problems.

I agree that not much can compare with leathers either in smell or abrasion, that is what you really want, something tht gives lots of friction to slow down the slide and will not grind off before you get stopped.

TRW

From a safety point of view, full face is the way to go.  You should be able to find helmets that meet both SNELL and DOT standards.  I'm an Arai fan myself though the Schuberth concept is interesting.

I have the Nolan w/ the movable chin guard. I like it but if I had to do it over again I would get the HJC with the removable chin. You see, the Nolan needs both hands to open and is a little awkward. The HJC only takes one finger and is simple as can be. Get the HJC.

Full face, definitely.

Flip-up styles are convenient, but heavy. There also isn't a single on that is Snell approved, if you feel you must have that rating. The Snell thing isn't a big deal, though (see below).

Buy something that fits, is comfortable and has the features you want. Fit is the toughest part for some, especially if you have an "oval" shaped head (long front to back). Basically your only choice then is an Arai Signet. Don't [b]ever[/b] buy a helmet and expect it to "break-in" to your head, you will only suffer through headaches until you get a new one [:)]

I know this will seem like heresy to most, but the whole mystique surrounding the superiority of a Snell rating is BS. If your head hits something at a speed that will cause a DOT rated helmet (they are all DOT rated) to fail, you are looking at a very significant closed head injury, to say the least, in a Snell helmet anyway. I do some motorcycle racing, and the DOT stuff holds up just fine compared to the Snell stuff at racing speeds. It should be more than adequate at any sane street speed.

The Snell thing may be a moot point anyway if you want a helmet with premium fit and features, as they are all Snell in the price range. Typically anything $200 and up is Snell. I like the HJC products and think they are the best value in the market, $150-250 typically.
 

I have a Shoei and a Bieffe, and prefer the Shoei.  Definitely get a full face helmet with the reinforcement by the chin, if you don't have the reinforcement and your chin hits something hard when you spill the bike, the plastic will shatter and will be forced through the skin of your chin by the object that you have hit, leaving serious scars from bits of plastic embedded in your jaw area.  If your jaw breaks this will complicate things greatly.  Remember, falling off a motorcycle is alot like falling off a building--the problem is not the fall or the slide, but the sudden stop at the end!

Oh, and about putting your glasses on with a full face helmet--put the helmet on first, then open the visor and put your glasses on.  The same way I put my shirt on in the morning, the glasses go on after I've pulled my T-shirt over my head.  No problemo.

Those who wear flip flops, t-shirts and shorts are looking to get phucked up. Say what you want about rice bikers but even if they are posers, they wear proper attire that can save their ass. I wore a DOT/Snell helmet, leather gloves and a Brooks riding jacket with jeans and boots. When I get my next bike I will get a new helmet and some Kevlar lined jeans.

If you look at bike wreck footage guys do more tumbling than sliding, even if they do slide it changes almost constanly. Melting would be the least of my worries. When I rode I put anywhere from 12K to 15K on a year and knew the value and saftey of good gear. My next Brain Bucket will likely be a Shoei or Ariea (SP?)

BrenLover

I looked up this information sometime ago. The reason for none of the flip up helmets are Snell approved... None have been submitted! Snell is anxiously waiting for a manufacturer to submitt a flip up helmet.
[url=http://www.smf.org]Snell Memorial Foundation[/url]

I agree with aa777888-2 about helmet being at least DOT approved, and that FIT is the most important. Make sure there are NO hot spots on your head when wearing the helmet. Hot spots will ruin your rides. And they don't go away with wear.

Next is sound, how quiet is the helmet?

Try on as many helmets as you can. Wear them for at least 15 minutes (you look stupid in the store, but it is worth it). Have a friend look at your face, see if there are any red marks when you take off the helmet, especially under your chin. The helmet should be SNUG! With it on, try to move it around on your head. If you can get any movement over a 1/4" it is to loose.

Each manufacture uses a different mold (even if they made at a common plant). Arai has two different shapes, Signet and Quantum. One is round, the other is oval.

Fortunately or Unfortunately, all the helmets that fit my ugly melon properly are both DOT and Snell approved. Currently have an Arai Quantm, which fits me great!

Full face if you do any freeways.
I recently bought a Shoei Syncrotec  that has the flip up chin piece. Its pretty convenient for short hops. At higher speed it "leaks" (wind, dust and sand getting into my eyes)
Just think of it as a half face helmet with a "bug guard".

Why can't I buy an approved American made helmet? Full face helmets are good in cold weather but are very uncomfortable in hot weather. After reading the 'lies and damned statistics' I wear the lightest weight approved helmet I can get, except for cold weather. Of course, I've only been doing this since 1968. My dad sold BSAs & Nortons, I ride a diy custom chopper.

OK, we tried a bunch on.

The Arai's seemed to have the best combination of fit and features, for a price.

Some of the other makes seemed to have vent closures that after some wear would be susceptible to the wind blowing them open, or to breaking, etc.

My son tried Shoei's and they seemed to be based on the wrong head shape.

I'm leaning toward solid white for visibility and because I imagine them to be a wee bit cooler (true?)

They also had a bunch of AGV's for $99 which looked and fit pretty good, but when i looked inside, it said it was manufactured in 1998.  Now I thought I'd heard that the foam breaks down after 5 years,  but the sales guy claimed that it is 5 years of WEAR that does that.

I also overheard some remarks from other shoppers along the line of "No way am I paying $150 for a helmet -I just ride on the weekends".
Yeah I know they cost, but how much is your noggin worth to you?

Just to add a little more on helmet fitment.  The helmet should be fairly snug when you put it on new - no hot spots, though.  It should squish your cheeks in a bit at first, but as the liner, not the EPS foam, beds down, it should loosen up.  Put it on and tighten the chin strap.  Then try to roll the helmet forward off your head.  If it comes off, it's too loose.

I don't ride, but having an 8lb weight pulling my head around somehow doesn't seem safe. Maybe my head wouldn't have hit the curb if it didn't have a rock attached to it. Maybe I wouldn't be involved at all if I could only see and hear what was going on around me. Or gotten dizzy from overheat. I guess if I have to, I would get the smallest, coolest, lightest helmet I could find. And spend more energy on common sense precautions like training and staying sober.
Just my thoughts. Ride Safe.

Don't go with the cheapest helmet-- go with the best quality that will protect your noodle and fit properly. Money should be no object when it comes to a good helmet, just like choosing a good firearm.

I have a Shoei, full face.

You got it right.  If you can't hear and see everything going on around you when you're riding you're an accident begging to happen.  That big weight belted to your neck can do more damage than road rash.  The yuppies can foam at the mouth all they want.  My credentials are forty years on hogs.  Been down before and likely will again.  Know when to wear a hat and when not.  Ride like a squid and die like a squid.  Proud to be one of the 97 guys who with Sputnik got the Texas mandatory helmet law repealed and got his patch of bluebonnets growing out of a helmet for the effort.  

Ride free.

I agree. With the proper training and experience, you really do not need a helmet (since you will be alert of your surroundings, etc.).

Being a new rider myself, I prefer to have the best helmet available-- at [i]least[/i] until I get more experience.

If you ever question the validity of the helmet laws just take a quick trip to the local hospital and look around the neurology ward.

Shoei - Red - XL

Big helmets do break necks and they do overheat riders to the point of unconsiousness. And the "best fitting" helmets cutoff cooling airflow worst.  A semi-concious rider is a dangerous rider.  With your senses dulled by heat you are less able to adequately perceive your surroundings and have set yourself up for trouble.  Factor in the loss of hearing and loss of peripheral vision and there you sit tunnel-visioned in a heavy pressure cooker and what do you expect.

As for the helmet qualifications:

As others have stated, DOT certification is mandatory.  Be sure to get a helmet that meets Snell M-95 certification. For a fairly current list of helmets that have been certified, go to [url]www.smf.org/m95cert.html[/url].

One other place you can look online for helmets is [url]www.denniskirk.com[/url] although since this is your first helmet you definitely want to buy locally to ensure you get the right size and comfortable fit.  I personally prefer Bell and Shoei but YMMV.

With a good helmet you'll find you'll be able to hear what's going around much better because of the lack of wind noise, you'll see better because your eyes won't be tearing from the wind in your eyes or swirling around behind your sunglasses, and you won't have any problems when a tire on the car in front of you kicks up a small stone that hits you right between the eyes.

As for whether or not you should wear a helmet, training and staying sober aren't worth much when some nimrod in a Saab decides on a whim to accelerate to 90 and pass you in your lane, or some drunken fool rearends you while going an estimated 120MPH. (The first happened to me, the second to someone I knew of.  I'm also a member of the Over-the-Bars club.)  You can't control what other people do, and you don't always have an out.

About 20 years ago someone I knew left a young widow behind because he took a quick run to the store to get a couple of packs of cigarettes; on the way back going around a corner he spilled and hit his head on the way down.  We were told that if he'd been wearing his helmet he probably would have lived.  

"Let those who Ride, Decide" IMO is absolutely correct, you don't have to wear a good helmet if you don't want to. If you don't, do yourself and your family a favor and make sure your health insurance is paid up, your will is in good order, and you've got enough life insurance to take care of your wife and kids.

Ever stop to ask yourself how many of the folks in the ER got there because they were wearing a helmet?  Not being in an accident is the best solution.  Seeing and hearing the idiot in the SAAB is the answer.  Not setting yourself up for self-destruction by a 3000 pound blunt instrument.

G_F, To me this discussion isn't about laws. I have nothing against people who choose to wear a helmet. There may be good helmets and/or bad helmets. I might even be convinced by a trip to a local hospital. But no laws concerning my personal feedoms are valid.

I do not agree with banishment of personal freedom either, it's just every now any then the majority of the populace is too vapid to take care of themselves and Big Brother must regulate.

It's about personal responsibility not the Nanny State.  I wear a helmet when it's a good idea and I don't when it's not.  And I usually need the full use of senses when I'm on two wheels.

It's an application of the Law of Unintended Consequences...if you make people think they're safer they'll take more risks.  Like seatbelts and airbags...if you want people to drive safer take those things out and put a sword in the steering column...you'll see a lot more courteous driving.  Same applies to riding a motorcycle.

I bought the bike I currently ride from a nuero-surgeon (sp?).

He told me, "What ever you do, please get a good full face helmet.  I operate on a whole bunch of people that weren't wearing one.  They will save your life."

Works for me.

I have an HJC VR-1.  Fit and finish are great.  Really a nice helmet for $200.

One of the interesting factoids we used in our successful effort to repeal the mandatory helmet law was that doctors have a vested interest in helmets.  We got evidence that indicated "organ reaping" from accident victime was enhanced with helmet useage.  Seems helmets increased the fatality rate among victims and thusly provided a larger pool of transplantable organs.

So more accident victims die when they are wearing a helmet, than ones without a helmet?