A friend of mine and I both had stupid deaths in the family this past weekend.    In my family, a 24 yr guy died of an overdose.   His obituary was total BS.   He was a looser, drunk, and junkie ... just like his father.

In am friends family, another young adult shot himself and died... supposedly while cleaning a gun.    Now, I've heard the stories and have know people involve in shooting where one was drunk cleaning a gun and shot someone else.    OK.   I can see it.    But, "accidentally" shooting one's self while cleaining a firearm... and dying?   I don't even see how that is possible.     It has to be intentional suicide.

If you know how they do it, please explain.

They leave ammunition in the weapon and pull the trigger with a round in the chamber.

Darwin at work.....

Natural selection. Not everyone should own guns. Just because you have the right own them, doesn't mean they're for you.

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failure to follow the 4 rules.

Not as many as reported.

With it pointed at themselves?   At a vital organ?   I can't buy it.

Face it.  Some people are just fucking morons.

Failure to follow the simple rules of handling firearms...multiple failures.

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Still, seems more a danger to others, or shooting one's foot, and not killing one's self.

They don't know anything about gun safety and don't bother to make sure the weapon in clear and pull the trigger before cleaning it.  Or, its a cover story for a suicide that the family doesn't want to admit happened.

Agreed.  I can see shooting yourself in the leg or hand by accident but,

Killing yourself?   i call suicide ...... sorry

They were inspecting the bore?

I honestly have no idea, either.

 

Little bit of each. Suicides and morons. Some people think cleaning a gun means wiping down the outside. They start polishing the trigger with a rag... Boom.

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If you ever spend any appreciable amount of time with non-firearms folks while they actually handle firearms, none of this shit would surprise you. People, in general, are blissfuly stupid.

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This is what my father told me 40 years ago when a fellow cop shot himself in Las Vegas while "cleaning his gun".   They were cops in Illinois and he was on vacation in Vegas.

Some are suicides.

With  a round chambered.... AND THEIR FINGER (or toe) ON THE TRIGGER?     There is nothing natural about holding a gun in that position.  

Besides, by the time I inspect the bore, the firearm will not function.

It's either a polite way to describe or characterize a likely suicide (for insurance, benefit, or just appearance reasons), or the person had a ND before the gun was disassembled for cleaning.

Guns disassembled or opened up for cleaning can't fire. So those are really the only possibilities.

Heck, I have wiped some off.    Still, they don't just go boom, and I am not about to point it at my heart or head.

Wait, you guys aren't putting the barrel in your mouth and pulling the trigger as part of your function check?

I would surmise that the headshots are more likely to be intentional, while the Darwin winners will be more likely to bleed out from femoral artery, etc.

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Heck, I don't jump when someone drops a handgun.    Just don't ever try to catch it.   Revolvers and Pistols (generally), won't just go boom.

This is all I could EVER imagine.

If you were stupid, it might. Load a round, point it in a safe direction, and rub it like you voted for Obama. It'll go off. Maybe not the first time,maybe not the second time, but eventually, you will put enough pressure on it to trip.

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It's not easy cleaning a gun while driving a tractor and whitling at the same time.

Most are suicides, accident is used so the priest will still come to the funeral.

Someone I know failed the 4 rules, did not clear the chamber whn cleaning and killed a guy point blank shot to the throat.
Sorry the times for hanging ar9ound were over.

I agree with you. “Cleaning a gun and it went off” is probably a euphemism for several different things…

Playing with a gun he thought was unloaded.
Drunk and acting stupid with a gun.
Committed suicide
Carrying a gun around the house and pulled the trigger due to really, really bad muscle memory training.
Thought he heard a noise and reflexively shot at the cat, or his wife.

I didn't think it was necessary to specify "moron."

I like Glocks and have 4 or 5.    But, I hate the process to take them apart.    I bet I check them several times, and show them to anyone near by before I disassemble them.   I still see it as impossible to accidently kill yourself with them.

While I can completely buy that it's a discrete way to avoid the word "suicide" ... I have absolutely no doubt in the capability of a determined idiot to unintentionally off themselves in the most complex, difficult, and unlikely of scenarios.

"Cleaning" = newspeak for finger fucking

It's people who lack the mental commitment to safety that get in trouble.  When you're familiar with firearms, picking one up begins a sequence of well-practiced actions.  You engage your firing hand grip, finger off the trigger.  You check the chamber and the magazine.  Sometimes you want it to be loaded, so it's intentionally left that way.  You find the safety, if it exists, and confirm its position.  You double-check muzzle direction.  If it's time to shoot, you acquire the sights, acquire your target, then remove the safety, then squeeze the trigger.

Some people think that they can "practice" by going through that entire motion, with a loaded gun, and just remember not to pull the trigger.  That they can just pick up their gun, whenever it strikes them to do so, and run through it "to keep it fresh."  They go faster and faster to hone their speed.  Draw/pick up, grip, sights, target, safety... maybe they even place their finger on the trigger but don't squeeze...  safety back on, put the gun down.  Repeat.  They don't bother to unload it because they're confident that they won't pull that trigger.  They just ignored rule #1.  They are not treating the firearm as if it were loaded.

It only takes one time to instinctively, and perhaps subconsciously, take that mental jump and squeeze off a round.  You're going through the sequence, trying to make it second nature, but you're forgetting something very, very important.  You're skipping the shoot/no shoot step.  That mental check where you evaluate your target.  We might call it, "know your target and what is beyond/aside it."

The fact is, that safety should not come off (if applicable) and the muzzle should not cover the target until you've determined that you're prepared to shoot it.  "Never point a gun at something you are not prepared to destroy."


But people get complacent.  They "practice" with a loaded gun a thousand times and never end up firing the gun.  They think they're safe because they won't pull the trigger.  They know they don't want to pull the trigger.  But by skipping over the rules and making exceptions, they're training their brains to do it wrong.  It's an easy mistake to make, because you want to practice, and you want to do it when the idea strikes you.  But that's how people end up with holes in their televisions.

It's a great idea to practice.  But you need to follow a strict regimen when you do.  
* Set aside the time to do it.  If you don't have the time, don't do it.
* Leave ALL ammunition, whether the firearm is chambered for it or not, in a separate room or in the safe.
* Check, visually and physically, that the firearm and all magazines are empty.
* Use only a safe backstop.  Do not aim at vases, pictures, televisions, etc.  If you want to use multiple targets, practice in a location that allows you to have multiple SAFE targets.
* Follow ALL the rules, EVERY time.

If you do anything else, it's only a matter of time before you touch one off without thinking.

Well when your brain actually functions, and talks to your digits, it is hard to kill yourself.

But when all you have upstairs is a barely functioning brainstem that makes sure you rob the world of oxygen one breath at a time, it becomes quite easy to accdentally off yourself.

I've never understood this. You have to be a complete moron to have a NG, and even more retarded to actually shoot yourself.

No excuses.

CHECK YOUR FUCKING WEAPON

I really wouldn't say I was retarded when I had mine. But I did have a major dumb ass moment. And yes I did shoot myself.

You would be amazed.  I was lucky when I had mine...it was a blank round.  Nevertheless, I squeezed the trigger on a gun that I should have cleared and didn't.  Cheapest important lesson I ever learned.

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Because there were not cleaning the firearm in the first place.....they were being stupid with a loaded gun.....looks better to say "I was cleaning it..and it just went off"  than to say.."I was practicing my fast draw"

Where did the round hit?   I can imagine holstering a weapon and having a NG.

Where did the round hit? I can imagine holstering a weapon and having a NG.

Upper inside thigh and ended up 3/4 way down leg and on opposite side.  

I just finished shooting and went to sit on my tailgate. When I released the slide back I automatically thought it was empty. Well I had a dumbass moment and pulled the trigger and boom it went.

You forgot some let others look down the barrel to make sure

This took place about 8 years ago.  It was a blank round inside an armory.  I had the muzzle inside the clearing barrel, but I was just going through the motions and not visually verifying clear chamber.  Bolt forward, selector to semi, trigger pull for rack-safe when boom!  I should have been the third person to clear the weapon prior to it going in the rack.  

Everytime I clear a weapon (which is everytime I pick one up and put one away) I think of that moment.

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Some people could fuck up a bread sandwhich.

And a bread sandwich too!

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I had an ND once when I was 20 or 21, I spent days blaming it on the ammo, unseated primer or something to anyone who knew about it and would listen  before I finally manned up and admitted it was my own dumbass fault.

Auto-ordnance 1911. I had all my gear on the hood of my car, car is pointing towards a creek where people are normally standing and shooting, no one there at the time thankfully they were taking a break behind me but I'm still way behind what was considered the firing line. Slide is locked back, put a new mag in, hit the slide release and BOOM! It put .45"x4" long "scar" in my hood pointing forward toward the creek.

I didn't touch the trigger but I failed to keep it pointing in a safe direction and I was changing mags behind the firing line. If I had kept it pointing a safe direction and been at the firing line I'd have a legitimate claim of a cartridge with an unseated primer firing on its own and wouldn't have cared.

Since I didn't have it pointing safe I consider it an ND even though I didn't touch the trigger, and I'm kinda glad it happened because like a poster above me said, I think about that one tenth-of-a-second of period of time in my life every time I touch a gun.

Insurance pays double for accident, zero for suicide.



Just saying.



And what made them think it was "cleaning" accident?  Did the dead had a bunch of rags and bottles of Hoppe laying around?  He had the gun apart, and while swabbing the barrel it went KB?