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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:19:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:19:36 AM EDT
[#2]
The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small.
Pro-abortion red herring/talking point. 
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:19:41 AM EDT
[#3]
In..
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal. Make the mother suffer even more. [unsubscribing. Nothing good will come of this thread, except the inevitable lock.] |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:31:41 AM EDT
[#5]
This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off.
A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:35:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small. Pro-abortion red herring/talking point. Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#7]
ibtl and ss
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:36:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Oh, this thread will go places.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:37:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Will this at least stop the baby Jesus from crying?
I don't see what the big deal is anyway, your body belongs to the state not yourself. The state can pass any law it wants in regards to its own property anyway. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:38:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Unless the woman was drugged and had no memory of the event, would a victim not use the morning after pill and things like that?
Granted, she would probably be in a bad way mentally and/or physically, but still, wouldn't that be the sound option? |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:39:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Seven pages, three perma-bans, and a lock with a witty SYSTEM MESSAGE.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:40:15 AM EDT
[#12]
not even the morning after pill???
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:41:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off. A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. If you're ambivalent about this, then you don't see the real wrong in abortion. If the fetus is a human being deserving of having his or her life protected, it doesn't matter how he or she came into being. Rape, consensual, incest, IVF, whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the unborn is a part of the human community, and that killing innocent human beings is not OK.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:42:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off. A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. If you're ambivalent about this, then you don't see the real wrong in abortion. If the fetus is a human being deserving of having his or her life protected, it doesn't matter how he or she came into being. Rape, consensual, incest, IVF, whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the unborn is a part of the human community, and that killing innocent human beings is not OK. In before self-righteous........................ Ah, shit. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:43:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal. so much fucking fail I vomited blood |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:44:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Hit the nail right on the head! Quoted: Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal. Make the mother suffer even more. [unsubscribing. Nothing good will come of this thread, except the inevitable lock.]  |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:46:21 AM EDT
[#17]
What about the coat hangar?
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:46:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small. Pro-abortion red herring/talking point.
Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. That does not mean what you think it means. D&C is how you remove the body of the fetus from the mothers body well after implantation. To prevent implantation you would use a drug like Plan B. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:50:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. A lot of people consider that an abortion. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small. Pro-abortion red herring/talking point. Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. That does not mean what you think it means. D&C is how you remove the body of the fetus from the mothers body well after implantation. To prevent implantation you would use a drug like Plan B. Dilation means the cervix is opened. Curettage is removal of the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation. Yes, a D&C can be a form of abortion but since implantation happens 24+ hours after conception, this is not technically an abortion. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:57:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Oh, this thread will go places. Actually, I think the members of this forum will have a civil discussion without resorting to vicious or personal attacks.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Good and it's not because I am against abortion, in fact I support it but not with my tax money in any circumstance. Life is harsh so pay for the unwanted baby your own dime or get private assistance to carry it to term.
I certainly don't expect nor want the gov to hand out tax money to victims of other crimes so why gov abortion money for rape? It smacks of the recent WTC 9-11 first responder money the tax payer will have to put out. To heck with that. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:03:04 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:04:19 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:04:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Oh, this thread will go places. well don't just stand there, DO SOMETHING TO STOP IT! sheesh! 
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:08:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off. A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. If you're ambivalent about this, then you don't see the real wrong in abortion. If the fetus is a human being deserving of having his or her life protected, it doesn't matter how he or she came into being. Rape, consensual, incest, IVF, whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the unborn is a part of the human community, and that killing innocent human beings is not OK. In before self-righteous........................ Ah, shit. If you shoot someone doing you harm, you don't have to prove their guilt or innocence... You only have to show that you were in immediate fear for your life. (Not exactly the same thing, but your statement is not always legally correct.) |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:09:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
http://deletethescene.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/abortion-sends-babies-to-god-faster.jpg And here we go............. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:09:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off. A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. I agree with the ambivalency thing - it's a tough moral question. But the issue in the OP os, should the government, i.e. me, pay for it? I'm not ambivalent about that. No. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:11:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off. A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. If you're ambivalent about this, then you don't see the real wrong in abortion. If the fetus is a human being deserving of having his or her life protected, it doesn't matter how he or she came into being. Rape, consensual, incest, IVF, whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the unborn is a part of the human community, and that killing innocent human beings is not OK. In before self-righteous........................ Ah, shit. If you shoot someone doing you harm, you don't have to prove their guilt or innocence... You only have to show that you were in immediate fear for your life. (Not exactly the same thing, but your statement is not always legally correct.) Apples and oranges. The person you shoot someone doing you harm you are doing so to protect life, that unborn baby isn't threatening the mother's life. There is a big difference between an attacker and an innocent child. edited because I'm trying to do this at work and got distracted. Anyhow I meant the attacker is trying to hurt you and you are shooting an attacker to protect innocent life, not a fair comparision to an abortion.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:12:00 PM EDT
[#30]
I'd better get in on one...
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:16:01 PM EDT
[#31]
I think it's time for me to avoid abortion threads in the future. They send my blood pressure through the roof, especially when images like the one above are posted.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:19:11 PM EDT
[#32]
day 1
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:21:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is pretty much the only sub-issue on abortion as to which I am ambivalent. Anytime people have consensual sex, they sign on for the possibility of pregnancy; thus I am pro-choice but hold that the time for making your choice expires when you take your pants off. A rape victim has never in any sense accepted the possibility of pregnancy. I do not think that a woman who has been forcibly recruited as custodian of a criminal's DNA should be compelled to incubate it and ensure its survival into the distant future. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have no pity or sympathy for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, anymore than I have pity or sympathy for people who die attempting solo circumnavigation of the Earth or climbing Everest. You pay your money and you take your chances. An impregnated rape victim cannot be said in any sense to have invited or created her situation, and in that situation I do value the woman's right to autonomy more highly than the child's right to life. If you're ambivalent about this, then you don't see the real wrong in abortion. If the fetus is a human being deserving of having his or her life protected, it doesn't matter how he or she came into being. Rape, consensual, incest, IVF, whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the unborn is a part of the human community, and that killing innocent human beings is not OK. In before self-righteous........................ Ah, shit. If you shoot someone doing you harm, you don't have to prove their guilt or innocence... You only have to show that you were in immediate fear for your life. (Not exactly the same thing, but your statement is not always legally correct.) Apples and oranges. The person you shoot someone doing you harm you are doing so to protect life, that unborn baby isn't threatening the mother's life. There is a big difference between an attacker and an innocent child. edited because I'm trying to do this at work and got distracted. Anyhow I meant the attacker is trying to hurt you and you are shooting an attacker to protect innocent life, not a fair comparision to an abortion.Certainly impacting her pursuit of happiness, yes? sick for 9 months, there is risk to a mother in any pregnancy, social stigma, etc..... I would argue that the rape has simply continued via an innocent 3rd party, and the victim has the right to protect herself from that attack by any means, including lethal force. ETA: Generally, I'm opposed to abortion... But early on in the case of rape? No objection. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:23:30 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:24:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small. Pro-abortion red herring/talking point.
Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. That does not mean what you think it means. D&C is how you remove the body of the fetus from the mothers body well after implantation. To prevent implantation you would use a drug like Plan B. Dilation means the cervix is opened. Curettage is removal of the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation. Yes, a D&C can be a form of abortion but since implantation happens 24+ hours after conception, this is not technically an abortion. A D&C would't be done... If you're suggesting a new use for the procedure in some kind of post-abortion world, that's another thing. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:28:32 PM EDT
[#36]
A woman has every right to get an abortion IF she has been rapped IMO. Having uncle sugar foot the bill just opens the door to abuse and is a horrible idea.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:31:54 PM EDT
[#37]
 Quoted: A woman has every right to get an abortion IF she has been rapped IMO. Having uncle sugar foot the bill just opens the door to abuse and is a horrible idea. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:32:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Good and it's not because I am against abortion, in fact I support it but not with my tax money in any circumstance. Life is harsh so pay for the unwanted baby your own dime or get private assistance to carry it to term. I certainly don't expect nor want the gov to hand out tax money to victims of other crimes so why gov abortion money for rape? It smacks of the recent WTC 9-11 first responder money the tax payer will have to put out. To heck with that. It goes beyond that, it prevents a parent who wants their raped 13 year old to have an abortion from using money from a Health Savings Account to pay for it (arguably). |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:34:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
SNIP Certainly impacting her pursuit of happiness, yes? YES sick for 9 months, there is risk to a mother in any pregnancy, social stigma, etc..... I would argue that the rape has simply continued via an innocent 3rd party, and the victim has the right to protect herself from that attack by any means, including lethal force. We'll have to agree to disagree on this ETA: Generally, I'm opposed to abortion... But early on in the case of rape? No objection.[/div] Comments above in red are mine. I don't think deadly force is justified to protect "pursuit of happiness" so while I agree that is impacted TO AN EXTENT I CAN'T IMAGINE I don't think it is a reason it kill the child. Ultimately this debate comes down to one thing, when does a person believe life begins? I think it is at conception so I think all abortion is murder. The mother should be able to get support from family / friends / church. If her church doesn't support her she is going to the wrong one.
If you have a different belief in when life begins than the only way to talk about this is to start the dialog at the point you believe life begins. At the point that you believe that the child is a human being is it still OK to kill it for the mother's "pursuit of happiness?" If so I feel bad for you. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:42:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal. And it was the mothers choice to get raped?
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:44:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Geez, ARFCOM really fucking fails when it comes to shit like this........... |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:45:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal. And it was the mothers choice to get raped? No it wasn't. See the post above yours, it explains my position. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:45:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Ya'll are debating something that essentially *never* happens. It's a pointless debate.
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:47:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Rabid Pro-Lifers insist that is Abortion also...Quoted: The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small. Pro-abortion red herring/talking point. Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:47:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Ya'll are debating something that essentially *never* happens. It's a pointless debate. Actually it's interesting that the majority of posters both pro and anti abortion agree that the .gov shouldn't bankroll them. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:47:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Ya'll are debating something that essentially *never* happens. It's a pointless debate. You must be new here. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:48:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Good, it isn't the child's fault the father is a criminal. The derp is strong. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:50:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted: SNIP Certainly impacting her pursuit of happiness, yes? YES sick for 9 months, there is risk to a mother in any pregnancy, social stigma, etc..... I would argue that the rape has simply continued via an innocent 3rd party, and the victim has the right to protect herself from that attack by any means, including lethal force. We'll have to agree to disagree on this ETA: Generally, I'm opposed to abortion... But early on in the case of rape? No objection.[/div] Comments above in red are mine. I don't think deadly force is justified to protect "pursuit of happiness" so while I agree that is impacted TO AN EXTENT I CAN'T IMAGINE I don't think it is a reason it kill the child. Ultimately this debate comes down to one thing, when does a person believe life begins? I think it is at conception so I think all abortion is murder. The mother should be able to get support from family / friends / church. If her church doesn't support her she is going to the wrong one. If you have a different belief in when life begins than the only way to talk about this is to start the dialog at the point you believe life begins. At the point that you believe that the child is a human being is it still OK to kill it for the mother's "pursuit of happiness?" If so I feel bad for you. |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:51:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The incidence of conception after rape is very very very very small. Pro-abortion red herring/talking point.
Exactly. The chances of pregnancy after proper treatment are ZERO. A D&C is performed, preventing implantation. Is proper treatment going to be covered? Some people consider conception to be the magical 'creation of a person', so any procedure that kills the zygote/blastula is considered abortion by those people I assume? |
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:52:34 PM EDT
[#50]
I would argue that it was never the taxpayer's responsibility to pay for abortions in the first place.
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