USAF to buy Blackhawks from US Army...

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - USAF to buy Blackhawks from US Army...

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:43:21 PM EDT

Interesting, hard to tell from the article if they are used or the Air Force is buying new ones delivered to the Army.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4996201&c=AME&s=TOP

"The U.S. Air Force is close to finalizing a sole-source deal to buy up to 93 UH-60M Black Hawk helicopters from the U.S. Army, according to defense industry sources."

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:44:55 PM EDT

[#1]

thats like me buying a sammich from my wife

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:46:59 PM EDT

[#2]

WTH are they gonna hand down to the Marines then. Will out leather necks actually get some factory new hardware?

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:48:24 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
WTH are they gonna hand down to the Marines then. Will out leather necks actually get some factory new hardware?

are their v-22s and uh-1ys used?

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:50:43 PM EDT

[#4]

No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:54:20 PM EDT

[#5]

I have no idea if they are used or new. I wonder if this is just a way to piggy back onto an existing contract like we do with our small arms?

ETA:

Quoted:

No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and
like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan,
since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace
the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike
models.

OK, that answers that question. You would know a hell of a lot more than I would.

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:55:35 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
WTH are they gonna hand down to the Marines then. Will out leather necks actually get some factory new hardware?

That's just crazy talk. Marines aren't allowed nice things...

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:57:51 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

Any insight as to why the M was selected over the MH-60S or UH-1Y?

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:59:00 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
WTH are they gonna hand down to the Marines then. Will out leather necks actually get some factory new hardware?

That's just crazy talk. Marines aren't allowed nice things...

Except for V-22, Y, and Z.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:04:51 PM EDT

[#9]

Can somebody name a significant piece of "secondhand" USMC gear since the M1 Abrams in 1990 or the first M240s converted from surplus US Army coaxial guns in the same era?

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:10:19 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

Any insight as to why the M was selected over the MH-60S or UH-1Y?

The Mike model is coming off the line damn near the way we want it. Slap on a probe, gun mounts, and our self protection systems and we're ready to go. Is the "S" glass cockpit?

No UH-1Y for fleet standardization.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:11:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Can somebody name a significant piece of "secondhand" USMC gear since the M1 Abrams in 1990 or the first M240s converted from surplus US Army coaxial guns in the same era?

Think CV-22, F-35 and the Marine mine roller over machine in use in Afghanistan. Don't get all but hurt.

Edit Nevermid. I see that you aren;t talking about "secondhand gear"./ I misread your post. Please forgive me.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:12:56 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Can somebody name a significant piece of "secondhand" USMC gear since the M1 Abrams in 1990 or the first M240s converted from surplus US Army coaxial guns in the same era?

The Marines Abrams were only second hand in order to get them to front line units for ODS. They were then remanufactured or built new to the M1A1 HC standard. So the Abrams thing doesn't really hold water either.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:20:59 PM EDT

[#13]

They would be getting new birds.

The reason to go through the Army is that the Army already has existing contracts with Sikorsky with options to purchase more Black Hawks. It is perfectly acceptabale to transfer hardware between services- doing it this way the USAF gets the birds cheaper since they would be part of the Army option (economy of scale) and would get them faster since the USAF and Sikorsky dont need to hash out a contract.

The big question is what will the USAF do for their spares and aftermarket pubs. The USAF has not had a contract to support the Pave Hawks for almost 20 years now- the USAF took over all of that back then claimin cost savings but my understanding is that their pubs and logistical chain are a mess. Having worked on fixing a similar mind set for a foreign .gov it took almost a year to untangle their publications and fix them.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:26:06 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

Any insight as to why the M was selected over the MH-60S or UH-1Y?

The Mike model is coming off the line damn near the way we want it. Slap on a probe, gun mounts, and our self protection systems and we're ready to go. Is the "S" glass cockpit?

No UH-1Y for fleet standardization.

All M's are glass cockpit (as well as 701D engines, wide chord blade, improved transmission and gearbox, IVHUMS system, etc etc). The USAF may even tie into the Fleet Management System (FMS) that Sikorsky runs providing them with some really impressive real time maintenance data.

The MH-60S is the naval version of the M- it is configured to quickly add on unique naval items (i.e. the duckbill in the front is there for a FLIR, etc). Similar option can be picked up for the 60M by picking from the new MH-60 series being produced for SOF forces.

If the USAF goes for the 60M series I'll probably be responsible for the O and I level maintenance manuals.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:27:36 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

I'm still disappointed about the CSAR X. I was so hoping that I could come over to the AF and stay on Chinooks.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:28:28 PM EDT

[#16]

SO, is the USAF sending their older Hawks to Sikorsky to have them upgraded to M model status? I know the Navy loves their Seahawks and want more of them.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:33:07 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

Any insight as to why the M was selected over the MH-60S or UH-1Y?

The Mike model is coming off the line damn near the way we want it. Slap on a probe, gun mounts, and our self protection systems and we're ready to go. Is the "S" glass cockpit?

No UH-1Y for fleet standardization.

S is glass cockpit and can be equipped with .50 or 7.62 and Hellfire with a forward firing gun in the works. S also has the long wheelbase of the M, is plumbed for a probe (though the Navy didn't buy probes, and can easily accommodate an internal tank that adds an hour of fuel, though it cuts cabin seating to 7.

I ask because I had to figure out what CVLSP was for an OSD procurement review to see if someone from where I work needed to attend. Turns out that the USAF talked to both the H-60 and H-1 program offices at NAVAIR about procurement of the two models I mentioned.

Posted: 10/29/2010 5:33:13 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
SO, is the USAF sending their older Hawks to Sikorsky to have them upgraded to M model status? I know the Navy loves their Seahawks and want more of them.

No, we're getting brand new birds.

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, we're not getting used birds.

Our 60 fleet is aging and like everyone else we're getting shot down and crashing them. The plan, since CSARX was cancelled, is to slide the existing HH60's to replace the Huey's we have and replace all the rescue birds with new Mike models.

I'm still disappointed about the CSAR X. I was so hoping that I could come over to the AF and stay on Chinooks.

You and me both... If I ruled the rotary winged world in the USAF all the units would have gotten MH47's upon the retirement of the -53 and we would have absorbed their mission.