In 1997, Tom Foley was trying to carry a man from a burning building when he fell down the stairs.

The Atlantic City fire battalion chief broke two vertebrae and ruptured three discs in his back. Those injuries ended a firefighting career that spanned more than a quarter century and entitled him to a state disability pension.

Foley, 60, still collects that pension: $59,736 a year. He also is paid $60,600 a year as Atlantic City's director of emergency management and he is building up a second pension through a separate state retirement system.

"I deal mostly in management,'' Foley said. "I don't do physical things at all.''

That arrangement … drawing a disability pension while working another job … could come under a microscope this fall when Gov. Chris Christie and the Legislature take up pension reform.

Christie's office is expected to announce pension reform recommendations in the coming weeks, and the former head of the state's Division of Pension and Benefits has said disability pension rules should be reviewed.

Pension reform has come to a head because the state pension system had $45.8 billion in unfunded liabilities as of June 2009. By some estimates, the system will run out of money within the next 10 years, and some state officials have said even current retirees may receive lower benefits and be forced to pay higher health care costs.

The Asbury Park Press analyzed public pension and payroll records and found 66 public employees who draw disability pensions totaling $2.1 million per year while earning $3.8 million in salaries. The vast majority of those are former police officers and firefighters.

There could be more. Incomplete state data made it impossible to link many disability pension records with public payroll records.

If those 66 employees continue to collect disability pensions through age 75, those pension payments will total more than $51 million, not including cost-of-living increases. Additionally, about half of those employees are accumulating a second retirement pension.

Among them is Viola Richardson, 65, a Jersey City councilwoman who draws a $41,000 disability pension from when she worked for the city as a police officer. She also earns a $39,000 salary for her seat on the council, as well as $91,000 a year for a second job with the Hudson County Department of Corrections.

Domenick Brando, 42, injured his spine about four years ago, when he was a South Hackensack police officer. He draws a $70,000 disability pension and now works a desk job as a health and safety coordinator for the Brick Township Municipal Utilities Authority.

Brando was only 38 years old when he started collecting his disability pension and said he didn't want to sit around the house when he could be working a desk job. Without the pension, Brando would be making only half the salary he earned as a police officer … not including overtime.

"I have a family. I have a mortgage.'' Brando said. "I have bills to pay.''

State Senator Jennifer Beck, R-Monmouth, said she is not sure whether someone on a disability pension should be prohibited from working another public job, noting that the goal of worker's compensation is to return that person to the work force. But she said that given the financial straits of the pension system, nothing is off the table.

"It's a question maybe the Legislature should ponder as we look at pension issues in the fall,'' Beck said.

One pension reform issue is this: Five years after an employee is awarded a disability pension, the state cannot require medical examinations or otherwise investigate whether the employee remains disabled.

Additionally, there are no income limits for police and firefighters earning a disability pension. Teachers and other public employees do face income limits, and the Department of the Treasury can collect excess pension payments from those members.

<...continued at link above, 4 pages...>

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If they aren't getting paid for the new job, I have no problem with it.

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Um,did you read the article?



They are collecting disability,but still working a gov job,and adding more in pension costs.Double (sometimes triple) dipping.



But hey,the money is from the state,so who cares?

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Yes, I read the article. I was saying that I'd have no problem if people were paid pensions and allowed to work a new job without pay. As it is now, I consider these double and triple dippers to be low life scum. They shouldn't be allowed to do that at all.  

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Fucking thieves

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It's a scam. Either you can work or you can't; and if you can then you shouldn't be collecting disability. Public service workers have learned to game the system.



If something isn't done to reform the system we will certainly face more financial catastrophe in the years to come.

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The firefighter was injured during the line of duty, after working 25 years.  He has a disability pension, he is not on temporary disability.  He retired as a firefighter.  There is reason he had to retire.  The municipality he works for have standards for firefighters.  Do you seriously want someone with back problems engaged in firefighting.  He got another job after he was retired that didn't involve physical stress.  

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The firefighter was injured during the line of duty, after working 25 years.  He has a disability pension, he is not on temporary disability.  He retired as a firefighter.  There is reason he had to retire.  The municipality he works for have standards for firefighters.  Do you seriously want someone with back problems engaged in firefighting.  He got another job after he was retired that didn't involve physical stress.  

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It's not a scam, he can't work as a firefighter, but he can work another job.
 

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Yes, I read the article. I was saying that I'd have no problem if people were paid pensions and allowed to work a new job without pay. As it is now, I consider these double and triple dippers to be low life scum. They shouldn't be allowed to do that at all.  

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Scam might be harsh.Sure he can work another job,but he shouldn't be allowed to double dip-get another job in gov-nothing added to your retirement and no additional benefits.





ETA-I'm guessing the poll differences will be between those of us that have to fill the trough,and those bellied up to it.

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In private business, if someone is disabled on the job and can no longer do that job BUT another job is available that he can do at no loss of pay, he does not get disability pay as long as he is employed. I do not see where a govt entity should be any different.

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The firefighter was injured during the line of duty, after working 25 years.  He has a disability pension, he is not on temporary disability.  He retired as a firefighter.  There is reason he had to retire.  The municipality he works for have standards for firefighters.  Do you seriously want someone with back problems engaged in firefighting.  He got another job after he was retired that didn't involve physical stress.  

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Theft.

The guy obviously has restored earning capacity therefore the disability payments should stop...

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Theft.
The guy obviously has restored earning capacity therefore the disability payments should stop...

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"State disability pension" misleading.  He was a firefighter injured on duty. No longer capable of working as a firefighter so he was medically retired.  his pension (not "disability") should not prevent him from working in another less physical industry.

Unless you also believe that veterens who collect VA benifits should not be allowed to work.

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Great thread bashing an injured firefighter.  What's next?  

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Actaully its a great thread about shitty word use in an article that means a completely different and fucked up payment system.

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lots of people work for the fire department that don't jump into burning buildings every day.    

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I do but get it,  but this was reported as though he retired and then went right back to work for the state and double dippng which I view as thievery.

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This is why pensions should not be tied to jobs.

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This is why pensions should not be tied to jobs.

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How so?










 

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It does not work that way in the private sector, If I go on disability and then
work, the amount I make on the new job is deducted from the disability payment.
This is a scam and things like this entitlement mentality is killing our country.


 

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Explain please.

Brian

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But if you retire and then go to work for a different company you still collect your pension, like this firefighter.

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It does not work that way in the private sector, If I go on disability and then

work, the amount I make on the new job is deducted from the disability payment.

This is a scam and things like this entitlement mentality is killing our country.





 

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Defined benefit plans are unsustainable, at least as they have been managed, and require that someone do their full service in one job or field. When people burn out they either lose their pension or they go to shit in their current job. Administrators, even in the military, keep people around to make their retirement who are worthless and ought to go. Further it prevents people from taking other career paths and returning, etc.



Which is why I like the idea of DC pensions. Remove limits on employers contributions and allow them to vary their contribution rates as an incentive. A shit job with a poor pension might do 1%, but a very good job could do 5 or 10% if thats what it takes to attract candidates. The money comes out of that years budget, not 60 years down the road, so elected officials and public administrators are held accountable.

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If you can't work then you can't work.



The husband of my wife's co-worker is on 100% disabilty from the VA. He claims he can't work because of injuries sustained from being in Vietnam. Yet the dude owns two apartment buildings and does all the maintenance himself.



Fucking leach.

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Government pension plans are not all the same.  The retirement association I belong to has almost 7 billion in reserves, and is very well funded for 13,000 retirees.  We pay into our retirement system for the entire time we are working (12.15% each payday) and you are not vested until you have worked for 5 years.  
 

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Government pension plans are not all the same.  The retirement association I belong to has almost 7 billion in reserves, and is very well funded for 13,000 retirees.  We pay into our retirement system for the entire time we are working (12.15% each payday) and you are not vested until you have worked for 5 years.  
 

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I'm glad yours is well funded. We're going to have to bail the rest out.

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I thought CalPERS had some serious projected shortfall.



Brian





ETA - Based on 13K retirees I'll guess you're not CalPERS but county 1937 - it helps to read/comprehend the all the info



Brian