would you support making persons listed in their local PD's gang database prohibited persons

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - would you support making persons listed in their local PD's gang database prohibited persons

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:11 AM EDT

Keep in mind in that all existing fed laws would still apply and to split hairs you would be denying someone's rights based on being in a database that they :
1. Have no judicial remedy to be removed from
2. Have no criminal convictions <edit> Felony or DV offenses that would preclude one Fed wise

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:55 AM EDT

[#1]

No.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:58 AM EDT

[#2]

nope

no due process

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:10 AM EDT

[#3]

No.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:12 AM EDT

[#4]

Fuck no.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:34 AM EDT

[#5]

just a curiosity of mine

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:45:07 AM EDT

[#6]

Interesting premise, but in real life #2 does not apply: If they're on a gangbanger database, they're usually the ones who are "frequent fliers" with the cops and jail staff.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:45:23 AM EDT

[#7]

So what happens when ARFcom is suddenly considered a gang? Or the NRA?

Bad fucking idea.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:45:45 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
nope

no due process

2nd post nails it

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:46:19 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Interesting premise, but in real life #2 does not apply: If they're on a gangbanger database, they're usually the ones who are "frequent fliers" with the cops and jail staff.

In fact over 40% of the entries of the last one I saw had no priors and a good portion of those had no entries period

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:47:38 AM EDT

[#10]

Not unless getting put on the list requires a felony conviction.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:48:32 AM EDT

[#11]

FYI most gang members are juveniles anyway.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:48:34 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

So what happens when ARFcom is suddenly considered a gang? Or the NRA?

Bad fucking idea.

Bingo.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:48:35 AM EDT

[#13]

"arfcom is a gang"

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:49:22 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
FYI most gang members are juveniles anyway.

true but many fit in the 18-21 range

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:51:11 AM EDT

[#15]

hell no

I don't even agree with the "felony=no guns" rule absolutely applied.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:54:21 AM EDT

[#16]

No. There is a price to pay for living in a free society.

Posted: 9/7/2010 10:58:00 AM EDT

[#17]

It would be another no-fly list. Arbitrary conditions to get on, possibly no way to know you are on, and no mechanism to appeal your inclusion.

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:00:17 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

No. There is a price to pay for living in a free society.

And if more people embraced their freedom, fewer could abuse it.

Huge problems with forfeiting rights without due process too. Even with the best of intentions, mis-/re-interpretations are a huge risk, and it would be a massive precedential stepping stone for eviscerating other areas of constitutional rights if challenges failed. That said, I think even the most activist court would have to can it. You'd need like 5 Sotos, 3 Kagans and a Stalin to find this constitutional.

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:15:36 AM EDT

[#19]

No. There is no system in place to ensure that people who end up in such a database are actual gangmembers at all, nor is simple gang membership even a crime in most places.

I remember guys that I hung out with in middle school making up a name for our little neighborhood crew and then promptly having their names turned over to the local PD's gang task force to be listed with all of the guys that were out shooting people over territory. For all I know, my name might be on the gang database.

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:16:52 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
No. There is no system in place to ensure that people who end up in such a database are actual gangmembers at all, nor is simple gang membership even a crime in most places.

I remember guys that I hung out with in middle school making up a name for our little neighborhood crew and then promptly having their names turned over to the local PD's gang task force to be listed with all of the guys that were out shooting people over territory. For all I know, my name might be on the gang database.

Mine is in a specific locale I was told it's because I had the bad luck to have a recycled boost mobile #

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:47:21 AM EDT

[#21]

No. The criteria for call you a gang member may be spelled out in the law but there is no conviction required. It just takes an officer checking the gang affiliation on the FI card to make it a gang. How bout the criteria become being convicted of a gang related crime.

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:51:38 AM EDT

[#22]

a gang database should be limited to those behind bars. Quit playing catch and release with criminals and there would be no need to worry about who's trying to buy a gun.

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:57:08 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

nope

no due process

This. No due process. And it is a slippery slope to stand upon. "Officials" love word play and this site/membership, the NRA, veterans, and the Tea Party would be included on the list by the second day.

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:04:33 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Keep in mind in that all existing fed laws would still apply and to split hairs you would be denying someone's rights based on being in a database that they :
1. Have no judicial remedy to be removed from
2. Have no criminal convictions <edit> Felony or DV offenses that would preclude one Fed wise

Fuck no. There is a process known as Due Process that your suggestion violates like a mother fucker. It's no better than the Lautenburg Law which is unConstitutional as hell itself.

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:10:46 PM EDT

[#25]

A law like that might reduce the number of thugs I have to kick out of my shop.

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:18:58 PM EDT

[#26]

I'm listed as an associate of a gang member, because my brother is a shithead. It doesn't matter that I haven't had contact with him in years, whenever he's in trouble I get a phone call asking if I know his whereabouts. "Sorry, haven't talked to him in years. I dont want to be associated with him"

So lets say you get your way and associates of gang members become prohibited persons . . . . . I don't associate with him, but I'm listed as an associate because I can't pick my family. Thanks, my efforts to be a law abiding citizen are for naught, because of a police database.

Seeking to deprive anyone of their right to bear arms is an offense against the constitution.

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:19:43 PM EDT

[#27]

One thing to remember about bureaucracy is that the processes you set up today will not always be controlled by you or your allies...

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:35:38 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
No. There is no system in place to ensure that people who end up in such a database are actual gangmembers at all, nor is simple gang membership even a crime in most places.

I remember guys that I hung out with in middle school making up a name for our little neighborhood crew and then promptly having their names turned over to the local PD's gang task force to be listed with all of the guys that were out shooting people over territory. For all I know, my name might be on the gang database.

+1 my friends and I were also put in the gang database in middle school because we hung around town in highly visible places wearing similar clothing. There were no gangs in our town, but our county had a huge gang problem so every town was under pressure to identify possible gangs. In fact a few years later I found out from a high school buddy who volunteered for the local PD that I was listed as the most dangerous juvenile in the town

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:49:16 PM EDT

[#29]

Nope.

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:56:11 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

nope

no due process

2nd post nails it

THIS!

I used to associate with a group of kids who were in a car club that associated with the street racing scene. When the cops started to crack down on racing locally, they tried to classify them as a "criminal street gang". Other then racing, none of them were involved in any criminal activity, yet they were all detained, photgraphed and documented as gang bangers. All of them grew up and moved on to other things, but I would bet there is a file somewhere with all of their info at the local PD's gang unit.

Posted: 9/8/2010 5:44:23 AM EDT

[#31]

No.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - would you support making persons listed in their local PD's gang database prohibited persons

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