An article about handguns that includes the phrase "blows up", and it's not talking about Glocks.  Beam me up, Scotty, I think I've seen it all!

Hmmm... most jams were "shooter-induced".  I know if I limp-wrist my P226 it will jam...

GAO blows up Sig Sauer’s contract award protest against ATF

The GAO has thrown out a protest from handgun manufacturer, Sig Sauer, Inc., which has supplied the .40 caliber handguns currently used by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), after that agency eliminated Sig Sauer from the most recent procurement competition to supply new handguns to the ATF.

Three gun manufacturers, Sig Sauer, of Exeter, NH; Smith & Wesson Corp., of Springfield, MA; and Glock, Inc., of Smyrna, GA, competed for a contract to supply the ATF with a new “handgun system,” which would consist of two separate weapons of identical function and design, said the GAO, “a standard-size duty weapon for enforcement operations and a compact model for backup and auxiliary needs.”

During phase two of a three-phased evaluation process, the ATF asked 20 of its agents to put all three proposed handguns through identical “live-fire” tests.

“Based on the results of the shooting tests, the [source selection board] recommended to the contracting officer that Sig Sauer’s handgun be excluded from further consideration as unacceptable with respect to reliability,” said the GAO, in a decision document released on August 18. ATF agents had recorded 58 stoppages with Sig Sauer’s full-size and compact pistols, 13 of which were considered to be gun-induced and 45 shooter-induced.

Sig Sauer raised a variety of objections to the manner in which ATF considered various criteria during the evaluation process, but the GAO didn’t buy the company’s arguments.

“In sum, the record shows that ATF reasonably evaluated the firms’ proposals in accordance with the solicitation’s evaluation criteria and concluded Sig Sauer’s offer was not one of the ‘most suitable for performance to the Government’ to continue to phase III,” said the GAO, in a protest denial signed by Acting General Counsel Lynn Gibson.

The decision document did not make clear if the ATF has issued a procurement contract yet to either Smith & Wesson or Glock.

Sig Sauer is an ISO 9001 certified company with over 380 employees. It is the largest member of a worldwide business group of firearms manufacturers that includes J.P. Sauer & Sohn and Blaser, Gmbh. in Germany and Swiss Arms AG in Switzerland.

http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm

Poor SIG. I remember when they made very decent handguns.  

Wow, my SIGs have never malfunctioned, they must have some stupid shooters

I wonder what user-induced failures they had?

I wouldn't suspect limp wristing because the plastic guns are usually the easiest to limp.

Just more ammo against Sig as of late.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I have 6 sigs. They need to dump their CEO like a tonne of bricks.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

You sure about that?

Not the first department to drop SIG in recent years, nor will it be the last.  If for no other reason cost.  Be quite a blow to SIG.  If I recall correctly ATF has used SIGs for a long time.  

That said, my 1994 edition 228 runs great.  

If Smith gets this contract I think that would be the first fed agency going to the M & P.

My Sig's personally have never failed me, but maybe Sig needs to up their QC game...

The only description of such in the GAO report is failures to lock back with the S&W, and a female shooter. Everyone's going to blame it on her, but the problem was corrected with a larger grip insert/palmswell. I think her grip placed her thumb atop the slide release while shooting, which led to the failures to lock back (which are apparently counted among the 16 shooter-induced stoppages for the S&W). I have the same problem with the new G19 Gen 4, the smaller grip shifts my thumb position slightly in comparison with the Gen 3 and I had failures to lock back until I swapped in a bigger insert. I had no such issues with the Gen 3.





 

Yeah and Glock is in some tax trouble with the IRS, so giving them more government contract wouldn't be the greatest idea.

ETA: for link
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_38/b4147036107809.htm

 

Well if they order Glocks in .40S&W I hope each agent pays their $200 tax and file the proper forms for destructive devices.

My P239 (.40) doesn't like the WWB with the "brass" colored bullet. I get a FTF about every 3 mags or so.


Everything else it eats like a bear just out of hibernation. Including Wolf. HPs give me no problems.

I'd still buy a Sig in a heartbeat.

I agree with this statement 100% Cohen's got to go...

Same

Maybe they were clogged with dog hair?

Sheesh, the primary subject of the article is Sig Sauer.  Next time I'll be more accurate.

I have two pre-2003 P226's that run perfectly.

And I haven't heard a single good thing about Sig post-2005.  They let their QC fall drastically.

I agree with the guy above, they desperately need a management change.  Maybe shut down the Exeter facility entirely.

I have a 2008 P229, P250 2 sum and a Mosquito that all function well, the only gun that I have a few problems with is the mosquito the others are flawless.

I have 2 SIGs. A P239 in 9mm from around 1999 or 2000 which is a superb gun. And a SHR 970 in 30-06 which if it had a pussy I would marry it. I guess they are slipping.

I keep hearing grumblings that SIGs QC has declined over the past few years.

Wow amazing

how the mighty have fallen.... Or have they?

Who won the Contract?


Seriously... I have 3 sigs (245, 239 & 229) that are very reliable.

I do think Sig has to address the QC issues a little better. Keep as many lemons off peoples hands. Reliability is what Sigs were known for.

I think as a company tends to grow & introduce new products,

they forget what got them there (like Toyota & their reliability reputation).

With that said I have very little data about these tests but if your sending weapons for testing

I would suppose Sig checked them for reliability before sending them??

my sigs all have ran like champs, i wonder what the hell they did exactly to have that many stopages?

People are harping on Sig's quality.

They're made in the U.S.

Union plant?

(BTW, my Sig is U.S. made)

SIG's QC has gone to shit over the past few years, I blame the dude they hired from Kimber, but it could be another reason. I've seen some pistols that honestly shouldn't have been delivered. There are other negative stories regarding current quality from friends of mine who use them in a professional manner and shoot, a lot.

It's a shame, they used to be great pistols, I think highly of my older ones.

no, I'm pretty sure you have it right

love the old 226's, havn't shot any recent ones so cant say if they went to shit.

Remember in Glenn Beck's OMG Glenn has a P220 thread that I said Glock>SIG?  

I'd be interested in what the 45 shooter-induced stoppages were, and why the shooters induced them.

I wonder if there will be any big, if any, improvements that will make .40cal Glocks on par with the 9mm models.

I was thinking that it was the 250 since the GAO report mentions that the Sig pistol tested offered design features not available with the S&W and Glock. I was struggling to come up with something that the P22X series offered in terms of the design features so described that were not at least semi-satisfactorily offered by the other two designs. Obviously, the ATF places a lower priority on the "modularity" of the P250.



 

reference ATF fuckstick who shot himself with a Glock during a classroom speech!  oops!

Seems to be a lot of that going around lately .

The best improvement that Glock could make to the .40 S&W line would be to cancel it all together... 9mm FTW!

I hate SIGS, there I said it. Tall, overweight, over priced, long trigger pull and reset and their DAK's blow donkey balls.

I'm not a Sig expert, and I don't know what the issue is with their current QC, so I've only bought older used Sigs.

Wow





 

My current collection of Sigs include a P220R, P228R, Sig 556 and a Mosquito. I've also owned early Sigs; a couple of 226's and a 225. ALL have been excellent, totally reliable and accurate. That being said, too many have complained and have documented issues with recently manufactured Sigs for their claims to not be reliable. Other signs that might substantiate a Sig decline include what appears to me a loss of direction in marketing and product development as evidenced by the offering of what I consider bizarre and "tacky"  custom finishes and configurations. Also, there seems to be confusion as to product pricing which has become inconsistent lately, especially in pricing of the Sig 556. Sig came out recently with the Sig 516, a gas-operated AR-15 version and they seemed about to tout it more heavily than the 556. Now, I don't see or hear much about it. in the meantime, I've seen 556's advertised for as little as $1,000.00.

I just sense loss of direction, which always begins at the top, and it does seem to coincide with the advent of Cohen taking the reins.

I've had one malf in my 229 in 6 years. Some how on the last round the casing failed to eject, and was driven open end into the bottom of the feed ramp, never figured out how it happened, and it never happened again.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

man that's fucked up! makes me not want to buy anything new from sig.

What model SIG was used in the tests? Anyone know?

I haven't met a single person, who has owned a Mosquito who has had anything good to say about them.

I bought a NIB SIG P220 SAS about 2 years ago. It was the most picky gun on ammo. It would not accept S&B, WWB, or any other low cost ammo without a feed failure every other round. It sickened me. All this hype about how great SIGs are and stuff and the first one I buy wont even feed practice ammo. I sold it the next day.

Oddly enough I was taking a handgun class a few months later and one of the main instructors was a big SIG guy and was always talking crap about Glocks. I was shooting a Glock that day and was doing pretty damn good in that class. We were talking during a break and I told him about my experience with SIG and he said that was impossible.. I laughed at him. He said you should have sent it back to SIG and had them fix it. So I told him If I buy a gun at that price and it doesnt run perfect out of the box then I don't want it and it is a low end gun IMO.

One of my very first posts here was filled with Sig hatred.  

Absolute garbage.  

(donning hardhat and kevlar as I type this).  

Holy shit. How'd I miss that?

I think I'm gonna buy another one just for that.