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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:37:41 PM EDT
[#1]
"The proper role of government is to provide equal rights, not equal things."
I like this one, |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:43:39 PM EDT
[#2]
....And I approve this message.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:45:38 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm cheap, so I've been waiting for the library to get a copy
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:54:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Most eye opening book I have ever read!
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:13:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I'm cheap, so I've been waiting for the library to get a copy You can have your local library order if from the Library of Congress. Great read ! |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:17:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Very basic google skills will get you the 5,000 Year Leap in audiobook format for free. Listened to several hours of it today at work... so far, good.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:22:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Most eye opening book I have ever read! Life-changing. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 6:25:50 PM EDT
[#8]
lots of truth in that.
but there is in the end, only one truth Everything has a life cycle.... |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:18:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Very basic google skills will get you the 5,000 Year Leap in audiobook format for free. Listened to several hours of it today at work... so far, good. Thanks for the tip, that was pretty easy to find. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:01:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Should be read in every single high school curriculum. That is my dream.
When was it written, 1983, or so? The book describes the things that will ruin our country, and we are now living through it. 
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:38:42 PM EDT
[#11]
there are no gods...
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:41:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes, it's a phenomenal book.
One of many.
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Posted: 7/20/2010 3:35:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Should be read in every single high school curriculum. That is my dream. When was it written, 1983, or so? The book describes the things that will ruin our country, and we are now living through it. Like clockwork. Truly frightening. |
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Posted: 7/20/2010 3:38:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
"The proper role of government is to provide protect equal rights, not equal things." I like this one, wrong......fixed |
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Posted: 7/20/2010 3:38:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I'm cheap, so I've been waiting for the library to get a copy Been out since 1981, don't think they will be getting one anytime soon. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 3:11:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
"The proper role of government is to provide protect equal rights, not equal things." I like this one, wrong......fixed Good fix. Did the same in my copy. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 3:21:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
there are no gods... Irrelevant. The belief that there is a god is enough. It is that belief that defines the boundaries of human morallity. Without those, we eventually descend into anarchy. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 3:27:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Why is this not available in local libraries?
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Posted: 8/21/2010 3:28:42 PM EDT
[#19]
It's sitting on my nightstand when I'm done with Patriots (which I don't know why I don't just skip 'cause it's pretty bad). |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:15:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Too much God in it for me. Anyone want my copy?
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:19:39 PM EDT
[#21]
But, but the poor atheists will be offended...
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:32:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: But, but the poor atheists will be offended... There's a difference between offense and incredulity. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:42:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are.
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:47:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:51:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:56:10 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:01:41 PM EDT
[#27]
23. A free society cannot survive as a republic without a broad program of general education.
This is an especially important one, and one that we horribly neglect, and one that our enemies readily identified as a weak spot and have used it against us. We need certain standards of things publicly-funded schools should teach and do a far better job at than they do now. – Our kids need a better grasp of our history, taught no longer as droll, hateful date memorization but understanding of the hows and the whys. – They need political science that teaches them how and why our system works, and how to be responsible citizens; not be taught the virtues of political correctness. – They need to be taught that our system is the best and why, and have systems like communism and socialism shown to be destructive, wrong, and unacceptable and why. – They need to be taught certain morality is absolute an essential to being a free citizen of a free country. Not everything is relative and you do what feels good. A better idea alongside an inferior idea will NOT always prevail. This is a stupid fallacy that's shown to be wrong time and time again. We need to seize on the better ideas and teach those and teach WHY they are better. We need to seize the idea initiative back from the liars and fools who have raised a generation capable of electing the current government. If you could fix just those things you could greatly uplift the character of this nation. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:18:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
23. A free society cannot survive as a republic without a broad program of general education.
This is an especially important one, and one that we horribly neglect, and one that our enemies readily identified as a weak spot and have used it against us. We need certain standards of things publicly-funded schools should teach and do a far better job at than they do now. – Our kids need a better grasp of our history, taught no longer as droll, hateful date memorization but understanding of the hows and the whys. – They need political science that teaches them how and why our system works, and how to be responsible citizens; not be taught the virtues of political correctness. – They need to be taught that our system is the best and why, and have systems like communism and socialism shown to be destructive, wrong, and unacceptable and why. – They need to be taught certain morality is absolute an essential to being a free citizen of a free country. Not everything is relative and you do what feels good. A better idea alongside an inferior idea will NOT always prevail. This is a stupid fallacy that's shown to be wrong time and time again. We need to seize on the better ideas and teach those and teach WHY they are better. We need to seize the idea initiative back from the liars and fools who have raised a generation capable of electing the current government. If you could fix just those things you could greatly uplift the character of this nation. Definitely. It's interesting to see how moral and religious truthes were taught in school back then. Nowadays that's all been abandoned for post-modern ideas of morality and religion: anything goes. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:20:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:21:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Why do people keep saying rights come from god? So we have to rely on something else to give us a right? Might as well replace god with Obama.
 Just go with a basic societal contract of mutual respect and courtesy: treat others how you wish to be treated and what's mine is mine - what's yours is yours. With those two, you now have human rights and personal property. Do need to mix in any voodoo and magic sky gods in. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:23:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. Only the creator can give rights to his creation. They can come from no other source. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:24:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: If it made everything, then why does he give it to us instead of naturally distilling it into us and making the world so from the get go? Excessive middle manning in societal structures. Makes no sense. It's bullshit.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. Only the creator can give his creation rights. They can come from no other source. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:25:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. Look, you and I agree. We are born with rights .We just disagree why we are born with them. I read his post as saying that as an atheist, he didnt care if his rights were rationalized by the existance of a God. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:26:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. I'm actually an agnostic, and as such not dead-set against the idea that something created all this. It's not irrational to believe that in order for something to exist, it has to be created. The author stresses that a mans work and intellectual property are inherently his own. What a man creates with his two hands and his investment of effort is rightfully his and can't be taken away in accordance with the Rule of Law. You are born with the right to your own body, and all that you may produce with it. Whether or not this right has been endowed by a supreme being is a matter of individual opinion.
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:28:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. I'm actually an agnostic, and as such not dead-set against the idea that something created all this. It's not irrational to believe that in order for something to exist, it has to be created. The author stresses that a mans work and intellectual property are inherently his own. What a man creates with his two hands and his investment of effort is rightfully his and can't be taken away in accordance with the Rule of Law. You are born with the right to your own body, and all that you may produce with it. Whether or not this right has been endowed by a supreme being is a matter of individual opinion. Ok, thanks for clearing that up. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:29:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: "The proper role of government is to provide equal rights, not equal things." I like this one, First one that jumped out at me, too. How far they're trying to skew that one now...fuck... |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:30:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it made everything, then why does he give it to us instead of naturally distilling it into us and making the world so from the get go? Excessive middle manning in societal structures. Makes no sense. It's bullshit.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. Only the creator can give his creation rights. They can come from no other source. Natural Law and Natural Rights come from God but they are naturally instilled within us when our lives begin. God created the system of rights and Natural Law when he created the universe. So while he did give us rights, they are naturally instilled in us and the creation around us. So, if it is part of that creation then Natural Law (and rights if it is human) apply to it. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:33:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it made everything, then why does he give it to us instead of naturally distilling it into us and making the world so from the get go? Excessive middle manning in societal structures. Makes no sense. It's bullshit.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. Only the creator can give his creation rights. They can come from no other source. Natural Law and Natural Rights come from God but they are naturally instilled within us when our lives begin. God created the system of rights and Natural Law when he created the universe. So while he did give us rights, they are naturally instilled in us and the creation around us. So, if it is part of that creation then Natural Law (and rights if it is human) apply to it. Sounds nice, but then there's Africa and every other human rights violation shithole where people are animals and tear each other apart....  |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:35:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it made everything, then why does he give it to us instead of naturally distilling it into us and making the world so from the get go? Excessive middle manning in societal structures. Makes no sense. It's bullshit.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But, but the poor atheists will be offended... I wasn't. I don't care how individual rights and the Rule of Law are rationalized, just as long as they are. But as an Atheist, wouldnt the belief that rights are given by God be irrational and unfounded? BTW, I almost always with that you say DuraToTheMax, serious question. Every man is born with his rights. God doesn't have to be the one to give it to him. Just like the Queen doesn't have to knight someone to prove they are trustworthy, honest, and loyal. Only the creator can give his creation rights. They can come from no other source. Natural Law and Natural Rights come from God but they are naturally instilled within us when our lives begin. God created the system of rights and Natural Law when he created the universe. So while he did give us rights, they are naturally instilled in us and the creation around us. So, if it is part of that creation then Natural Law (and rights if it is human) apply to it. Sounds nice, but then there's Africa and every other human rights violation shithole where people are animals and tear each other apart....
Because it's a fallen world and while humans cannot grant each other natural rights, they most definitely can take them away. Don't blame God and his system of Natural Law for the failings of humanity. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:37:26 PM EDT
[#40]
What a great topic, once again derailed into a theist/atheist argument.
SIGH. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
What a great topic, once again derailed into a theist/atheist argument. SIGH. Well, Natural Law ties in with God. Without God there can be no Natural Law or Natural Rights. A majority of Founders agreed with that statement. ... 4. Without religion the government of a free people cannot be maintained. 5. All things were created by God, therefore upon him all mankind are equally dependent and to him they are equally responsible. ... 8. Men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. 9. To protect man's rights, God has revealed certain principles of divine law. 10. The god-given right to govern is vested in the sovereign authority of the whole people. ... |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:43:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Yeah I know. It's just there some great material there, but what does GD do? Zero in on the religion and then beat each other up while ignoring the rest, like the subject hasn't already been beaten to death a million times on here.
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:44:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: What a great topic, once again derailed into a theist/atheist argument. SIGH. Quoted: Yeah I know. It's just there some great material there, but what does GD do? Zero in on the religion and then beat each other up while ignoring the rest, like the subject hasn't already been beaten to death a million times on here. This is GD, sorry I broke this combayah circle.  |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:46:32 PM EDT
[#44]
I honestly don't care about religion. I don't consider myself anything. I just know, I have rights, and I was born with them. Impede my rights, and there is Hell to pay. (Uh oh! I said Hell!)
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:48:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Yeah I know. It's just there some great material there, but what does GD do? Zero in on the religion and then beat each other up while ignoring the rest, like the subject hasn't already been beaten to death a million times on here. Agreed. Let's not let the God/no God argument distract anyone from reading one of the most enlightening books available- one that lends real insight into the wisdom possessed by the founding fathers and the theory behind severly limiting government. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:57:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Too much pseudo history pop combined with bible thumping in there
Go read Hume, Locke, Mills, Smith, Ricardo, Hobbes, Montesquieu, The Federalist Papers, von Mises, Hayek, etc and learn for yourself Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 7:01:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Too much pseudo history pop combined with bible thumping in there Go read Hume, Locke, Mills, Smith, Ricardo, Hobbes, Montesquieu, The Federalist Papers, von Mises, Hayek, etc and learn for yoursslf Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Erm, this book is based upon the writing and studies of those philosophers. No pseudo-history here. Tons of quotes and context in every chapter. Have you even opened the "5,000 Year Leap"? |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 7:10:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Too much pseudo history pop combined with bible thumping in there Go read Hume, Locke, Mills, Smith, Ricardo, Hobbes, Montesquieu, The Federalist Papers, von Mises, Hayek, etc and learn for yoursslf Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Erm, this book is based upon the writing and studies of those philosophers. No pseudo-history here. Tons of quotes and context in every chapter. Have you even opened the "5,000 Year Leap"? Yeah I thumbed thru it at the book store It's just as I described But if you don't want to do the heavy lifting....by all means read it Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 7:16:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Excellent, thanks! I have the paperback version, but this will be easier to listen to when I'm doing dishes and making sammiches. http://www.nccs.net/5000-year-leap/_jkgFoe95jlsf4poG/ free audio book complments for 9/12 project!   |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 7:17:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Too much pseudo history pop combined with bible thumping in there Go read Hume, Locke, Mills, Smith, Ricardo, Hobbes, Montesquieu, The Federalist Papers, von Mises, Hayek, etc and learn for yoursslf Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Erm, this book is based upon the writing and studies of those philosophers. No pseudo-history here. Tons of quotes and context in every chapter. Have you even opened the "5,000 Year Leap"? Yeah I thumbed thru it at the book store It's just as I described But if you don't want to do the heavy lifting....by all means read it Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I disagree with your marginalizing of the book. It's an assembly of different facets of the same overall philosophy embraced by the founders. None of the founders' ideas were original, but they were the first to combine them into a written contract and apply it in a workable way to a limited government. Sure, you can read more about these ideas from various philosophers, but 'The 5000 Year Leap' is by no means a book to pass up.
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