Employee theft acceptable?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Employee theft acceptable? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:03:41 PM EDT

My family has been in the retail food business for the last 40 years. We employ a ton of high school kids. The biggest issue we have is employee theft. Thankfully we don't sell expensive merchandise so the loss if any is minimal.
We tell all employees the first day they work that the only person who can authorize no charge or discounts is me or my parents. It never fails about once a year that we have to fire someone because they think they are smarter than us and try to give their friends something for free. Whenever I have had to deal with an issue like this after they lie about being a thief the employee usually feels like he or she has done nothing wrong and they somehow have a right to give away free stuff.

I am in my mid twenties but look like I am a teenager and blend in pretty well with our staff. Pretty often I have friend or family of employees come in and ask to get stuff for free or discounted.
I know in the restaurant or deli business it's even worse. There is a local restaurant/ bar where a few of my friends or acquaintances work that I know if I wanted to I could drink or eat for free. The same goes for a out door shop next to me, they had no inventory control and I would regularly watch employees give their friends free stuff. Just tonight I had an employee brag to me about how he gets free food at a local stop and rob cause a friend works there and gets free food at a pizzeria from another friend.
I don't know how places stay in business, the employees seem to feel like they have the right to steal.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:12:08 PM EDT

[#1]

Morals are sinking faster than the titanic in this nation.

I knew a kid, who would have his friends come in and purchase something, they would pay with a ten, and he would give them change for a hundred.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:12:52 PM EDT

[#2]

Some of the most blatant theft/embezzlement has been from people in Fast Food.

One guy I know used to have the meal combinations memorized, so they would make the order and sell it... if they paid cash, they wouldn't ring it up, just keep the $$$.

I forget what he and two other people were taking in a week, but they did it for over two years, and it wasn't a small cut at the end of the shift. They eventually got caught and fired... I wonder what their books looked like the next year in comparison, they were ripping them off big time.

I guess because they see the items/products as inexpensive, then it's not too bad... like giving away TV's or Computers would be.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:23:16 PM EDT

[#3]

Danj: I may sound the the Grinch that stole Christmas, but it is the principle of it. Theft if theft no matter if it a $1 candy bar. Your family works hard to earn it. Inventory shrinkage(ie employee theft) is a major problem for all retailers. You are not in business to give away your profits.

I used to know a guy who worked at his cousin's shooting range, he stole so much money that the range almost went out of business. The family finally had him arrested and had him prosecuted for grand theft and forced him to repay the stolen money.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:29:19 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Danj: I may sound the the Grinch that stole Christmas, but it is the principle of it. Theft if theft no matter if it a $1 candy bar. Your family works hard to earn it. Inventory shrinkage(ie employee theft is a major problem for all retailers). You are not in business to give away your profits.

I agree with you 100 percent. It just sucks that I can't even trust my employees.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:31:26 PM EDT

[#5]

When I worked for golds gym it was completely common for people to sell memberships under the table as well as take "day pass" $$ when paid in cash. People would come in and buy a day pass for $10-$15. Or a week pass for like 25 or a 2 wk pass for $50. If the people paid in cash they would just pocket it, because day passes/week/2wk passes were just written on a little paper and handed over to them w/ initials nothing documented.

People would write up memberships stick them in the computer and write "paid" on them or "Comp" because of a corporation contract such as a coffee place or close apartment complex we had deals with. So they would charge them for full year's at like $150-$500 depending on length and if somebody would pay in cash they would pocket it. I know a guy there who made about $1k in a wknd sat/sun just selling passes under the table.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:33:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Danj: I may sound the the Grinch that stole Christmas, but it is the principle of it. Theft if theft no matter if it a $1 candy bar. Your family works hard to earn it. Inventory shrinkage(ie employee theft is a major problem for all retailers). You are not in business to give away your profits.

I agree with you 100 percent. It just sucks that I can't even trust my employees.

The problem is that you spend enough money just employ these people. Even if you pay the minimum wage your are paying at +20-30% over their base salaries for all the various taxes and what not.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:35:13 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
When I worked for golds gym it was completely common for people to sell memberships under the table as well as take "day pass" $$ when paid in cash. People would come in and buy a day pass for $10-$15. Or a week pass for like 25 or a 2 wk pass for $50. If the people paid in cash they would just pocket it, because day passes/week/2wk passes were just written on a little paper and handed over to them w/ initials nothing documented.

People would write up memberships stick them in the computer and write "paid" on them or "Comp" because of a corporation contract such as a coffee place or close apartment complex we had deals with. So they would charge them for full year's at like $150-$500 depending on length and if somebody would pay in cash they would pocket it. I know a guy there who made about $1k in a wknd sat/sun just selling passes under the table.

That is truly dishonest. A couple of candy bars, but this hundreds and potentialy thousands of dollar(ie grand theft). People today have zero morals.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:35:52 PM EDT

[#8]

Consider older people, around retirement age. Like Korean War era people.

Then again, it's really difficult to stop this kind of thing, especially with food because most people don't see it the same way they see other material goods, like sunglasses, pants, shoes, etc. Probably why it's seen as "no big deal" or "giving food away isn't stealing".

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:37:04 PM EDT

[#9]

I have talked with many thiefs after they have been caught.... I do retail asset protection for a living. A good portion of the younger ones feel they don't get paid enough, so they supplement their income by stealing, or peer pressure to look cool in front of their friends. Both make great rationalizations when you sit them down for an interview after they have been caught.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:42:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Theft is theft.

I have found that people think that business owners are rich because their business pulls in a Million dollars. Well they aren't smart enough to figure out that that Million goes to pay wages, upkeep, utilities....etc. They think...."Hmm, they make a mil a year, they won't miss one cheeseburger" True that one cheeseburger might not make a dent, but if everyone took a cheeseburger a day you are talking a couple thousand cheeseburgers a year.

I've never understood why/how someone feels they can walk off with something that isn't theirs to walk off with.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:53:13 PM EDT

[#11]

People think that if they take from a company that makes millions the company will still have millions left.

The same mentality can be seen with food. Get a big bag of doritos and someone asks you for some, eat a small back an nobody asks.
If you did not earn, then it isn't yours.

Posted: 6/30/2010 11:59:18 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Morals are sinking faster than the titanic in this nation.

I knew a kid, who would have his friends come in and purchase something, they would pay with a ten, and he would give them change for a hundred.

That sounds more like stupid than theft.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:02:39 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Morals are sinking faster than the titanic in this nation.

I knew a kid, who would have his friends come in and purchase something, they would pay with a ten, and he would give them change for a hundred.

That sounds more like stupid than theft.

Seriously?

He would split the money he stole. I saw this in HS, where a guy working at the student store would hand another guy a $20 when he'd give a dollar for a bag of chips. Both were football players, and the one working inside was actually pretty good with his grades too. Never got caught.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:05:26 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Danj: I may sound the the Grinch that stole Christmas, but it is the principle of it. Theft if theft no matter if it a $1 candy bar. Your family works hard to earn it. Inventory shrinkage(ie employee theft is a major problem for all retailers). You are not in business to give away your profits.

I agree with you 100 percent. It just sucks that I can't even trust my employees.

There's the issue. Why are you hiring people that you can't trust? What would it take for you to only hire trustworthy people?

As to people not having morals any more, that's a bunch of bull plop. Employers have had the same problem since commerce first began.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:19:29 AM EDT

[#15]

My brother in law is a supervisor for a McDonalds franchise that has about 25 stores. One of the managers had a BBQ and invited several employees including supervisors and family members of the franchise owner.

People showed up and he was out there cooking hamburgers with McDonalds 4:1 meat straight out of the box it comes in.......

This was a guy who was making about $60k a year with bonuses.

There's just no telling what people will think falls in the normal category.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:31:05 AM EDT

[#16]

It isn't acceptable. Used to work in the job of busting employees that were stealing. You would be surprised at the things I saw.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:32:51 AM EDT

[#17]

Longshoreman are some of the biggest thieves I have ever come across. Those guys will steal everything, gasoline, paper cups, toilet paper, everything and anything. Most of them hate their employers so much that they feel entitled to steal because they only make 90-200K a year.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:33:14 AM EDT

[#18]

Why is the bulk of your employee-base high school kids?

If your business model relies on this group's acceptance of minimum wages for maximum work, you're screwed. You will always get minimum work for minimum wage, especially in this age group. Try to seek out retirees or veterans.

The free market works both ways. If you want good employees, pay more or they're working for you competitor.

It's not just money though. Benefits are nice, but competent and level-headed managers will go a very long way to retain and develop otherwise disposable employees.

Work a fast food job or two "undercover" for a couple months, you'd be shocked at the waste by both management and employees*. (and the shit that will get your restaurant black-labled by the health dept). Try to work at a Chik-Fil-A for a bit, they seem to know how to do everything right.

*When I worked FF in school, management wasted FAR more food than could be given away discretely by employees.

Posted: 7/1/2010 12:47:00 AM EDT

[#19]

Theft is rampant everywhere.

Though it sucks most when it affects your finances..

Posted: 7/1/2010 2:37:20 AM EDT

[#20]

Employee theft is wrong. Having said that, you get what you pay for.

An employee making $12 an hour will be more concerned about protecting his job vs. an employee making minimum wage.

What are the consequences of losing an $8/hr job? You have to go find another $8/hr job.

Posted: 7/1/2010 2:52:55 AM EDT

[#21]

worked at a restaurant out of highschool, female coworker (20yr old or so) was caught stealing toilet paper rolls (the single packaged ones)

Staff had noticed the loss in inventory eventually and started watching, she got caught one night and fired. Stealing TP, sheesh...

Posted: 7/1/2010 3:17:39 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Morals are sinking faster than the titanic in this nation.

Understatement of the day right there.

Posted: 7/1/2010 3:23:15 AM EDT

[#23]

My brother in law was in the fast food business. At a seminar he was told by the company,

1. 20% of your employees will never steal from you; 20% of your employees will steal at every opportunity, and the remainder - it depended upon the circumstances;
2. figure on 400% turnover a year in service counter help. My brother in law got it down to 200%.
3. his stories about thieving employees (despite cameras on the counter and in the backroom) were always entertaining.
4. you can watch COPS for entertainment (read stupidity). All he had to do was look at the tapes and show them to the police.

Posted: 7/1/2010 3:46:03 AM EDT

[#24]

Employee theft is nothing new. I repeat, it is nothing new. My grandfather owned two Greek restaurants in NYC, when my dad came back home from WW II and took over one of the restaurants - he lasted about two years before going back into the military. I've asked him on several occasions why he didn't stay in the business. His answer was quick and to the point: "Employees steal from you. Add the long hours, do the math." Plus, he just wanted to ride his motorcycle and be free after the war.

Posted: 7/1/2010 3:59:22 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Danj: I may sound the the Grinch that stole Christmas, but it is the principle of it. Theft if theft no matter if it a $1 candy bar. Your family works hard to earn it. Inventory shrinkage(ie employee theft is a major problem for all retailers). You are not in business to give away your profits.

I agree with you 100 percent. It just sucks that I can't even trust my employees.

There's the issue. Why are you hiring people that you can't trust? What would it take for you to only hire trustworthy people?

As to people not having morals any more, that's a bunch of bull plop. Employers have had the same problem since commerce first began.

How can he tell who can be trusted and who can't?

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:08:37 AM EDT

[#26]

The "entitlement mentality", don't you love it?

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:31:14 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

The "entitlement mentality", don't you love it?

Basically it.

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:36:54 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Morals are sinking faster than the titanic in this nation.

I knew a kid, who would have his friends come in and purchase something, they would pay with a ten, and he would give them change for a hundred.

Whoa! I'd actually press charges and teach that budding little scumbag a lesson. Did this happen more than once? If so, how did continue after the register came up short the first time?

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:37:13 AM EDT

[#29]

I saw a lot of people get caught and fired for various schemes to steal money out of the tills when I worked in restaurants, that was back in the golden Reagan era.

Theft was absolutely rampant.

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:43:16 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Employee theft is wrong. Having said that, you get what you pay for.

An employee making $12 an hour will be more concerned about protecting his job vs. an employee making minimum wage.

What are the consequences of losing an $8/hr job? You have to go find another $8/hr job.

I agree but unfortunately in some markets the difference between $8/hr employees and $12/hr employees is staying in business. Not all markets have prices that support $12/hr labor. It's not like employers can just raise wages arbitrarily and expect their customers to be willing to pay for that increase in terms of higher prices. Just being a "business owner" doesn't mean that you have an unlimited pool of resources against which you pay any amount of wages you feel like paying. More often than not, you are stuck with the help that the market you are in can afford to attract. The best you can do is do a good job filtering people out through the interview process.

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:46:22 AM EDT

[#31]

Stealing is stealing, Weather it's 1 penny or $1000

Thieves are dirt bags plain and simple

I have no problem fireing a thief.

When I lived in the south I had a friend who's parents owned a restraunt.
They would ocasionally give me a free meal at lunch or a expresso.

But then when they had computer problems at work and at home
I went over and took care of them on my time and at no charge.

So in the end They made out for their generosity.

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:46:25 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
The "entitlement mentality", don't you love it?

This says it all. That and the comment about the morals of this nation sinking faster than the Titanic. When the little guy sees the big boys (Goldman Sacks, Tommy Geitner or Hank Paulson who don't pay taxes) steal and get rewarded, they feel entitled to get their "share."

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:53:34 AM EDT

[#33]

I owned a small cash business that employed teenagers as the bulk of my crew. Indeed, it is problem. My business too was low priced items - food service. I knew how kids are and how it works. After talking with my CPA and looking at some numbers and options I decided that "comps" would part of my employees benefits. Meaning that I allowed each employee "X" number of freebies to eat for themselves, "buy" something for their friends or family or just to comp a good customer that maybe tipped them well. I required that it be documented so I could account for the costs. I gave them more than most could use in a shift reasonably and most did not use up their allotment. At the end of the day, quarter, year I tallied the numbers and found I had very little unaccounted for loss. Granted, I hired good local kids that I usually knew the parents of, but the peer pressure can cause even the best of kids to fold. Allowing them to have some product to do with as they please kept everything mostly honest and accounted for. It worked well and I know if I had simply banned giving away product I would have unaccounted for losses and dishonest employees. The costs were calculated and adjustments made to minimize the profit impact.

-JC

Posted: 7/1/2010 4:59:16 AM EDT

[#34]

I never knew this before, but most of the security cameras in a store or gas station, etc are there to watch the employees, not the customers.

Posted: 7/1/2010 5:00:06 AM EDT

[#35]

Employee theft was/is tolerated where I used to work.....a John Deere dealership.

At least three of the mechanics I worked with would steal parts......one lifted parts to install on his own machines(he farmed too), one installed stolen parts on his fathers machine, the other was stealing parts and oil and reselling them after work to his moonlight customers.

Some members of the management team essentially were doing the same....stealing bits and pieces for personal use, or charging parts to the store for their own use.

I believe a few 'stolen' parts were actually charged to customers, but taken home and used personaly.

Several attempts were made by other employees to 'enlighten' the management, to no avail. I was told to mind my own business when I mentioned a blatant case of theft.

Others tried and got the same.

An interesting side effect of the theft issue......most of the honorable mechanics have quit.....and the thieving shitheads are still there!

Posted: 7/1/2010 5:18:20 AM EDT

[#36]

To the OP:

Your family has made a choice. They could have: 1) paid the employee search fees, pay, benefits, and invested in employee relations enough to hire good people and keep them honest by paying them a good wage for their labors. That also would likely require some sort of bonus or profit sharing. You decided not to do that because it would cut down on your short term profits. Thus choice 2) where you hire cheap people cheaply and throw them away quickly, trusting they will quit or get laid off before they lose their "Christian" values and start taking the chance to raise their actual compensation to what their labor is worth. You are counting on worship of the Dead Christ to keep the kids in check until you get rid of them. Sometimes you lose that bet.

Posted: 7/1/2010 5:23:51 AM EDT

[#37]

The first employee I ever fired was due to giving the employee discount to friends, and the denying it. He ended up joining the Marines and became an officer. I hope he learned something along the way- it appears he did and turned out ok.

I'll echo what a lot of others have said- its not about the money, its about integrity.

Posted: 7/1/2010 5:45:00 AM EDT

[#38]

Employee theft and negligent spoilage (employee caused) FAR outweigh losses by shoplifting.

Posted: 7/7/2010 7:50:22 PM EDT

[#39]

So I end up firing this kid today for theft. During the fourth of July parade my dad catches him not ringing shit up for his friends. Right before my dad leaves our store he calls me on my cell while I'm driving into work and clues me in.

As I am walking into work five minutes later his friends are standing in my store waiting for my uncle to walk into the back so they can steal more shit. His shift ends a few minutes later and he calls in sick two days in a row.

When the kid applied he didn't put down any past work experience. Then he ends up telling me after a few days of training he has worked for over a half a dozen places in the last three years (he is barely 16). Now I no longer wonder why he didn't list them.

Posted: 7/7/2010 8:23:35 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

To the OP:

Your family has made a choice. They could have: 1) paid the employee search fees, pay, benefits, and invested in employee relations enough to hire good people and keep them honest by paying them a good wage for their labors. That also would likely require some sort of bonus or profit sharing. You decided not to do that because it would cut down on your short term profits. Thus choice 2) where you hire cheap people cheaply and throw them away quickly, trusting they will quit or get laid off before they lose their "Christian" values and start taking the chance to raise their actual compensation to what their labor is worth. You are counting on worship of the Dead Christ to keep the kids in check until you get rid of them. Sometimes you lose that bet.

Is that you Mr. President? Sure, let's raise the minimum wage to $87 an hour, I am sure it will help the economy.

I suppose if we just increased welfare payments and started putting Sub Zero appliances in the projects, the hood rats would stop robbing people too? I fail to see why healthcare and a 401k are quid pro quo for integrity and common decency. If you're underpaid, leave. If not, then shut up, do your job, and behave like a person instead of an animal.

Your view may have some practical (but cynical) applicability, but you've essentially placed blame on an employer and given an excuse to criminal employees. Notions of fairness should not trump property rights, ever. There are still people who will do an honest day's work, without expecting bonuses and profit sharing.

Posted: 7/7/2010 8:34:14 PM EDT

[#41]

My favorite bar/restaurant has a standing policy that all employees eat for half cost and bartenders are allotted a certain amount per day that they can comp regulars free stuff with (free drinks, free appetizers, whatever, up to the limit).

They still sometimes have to fire someone for stealing.

Posted: 7/7/2010 8:37:32 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
My family has been in the retail food business for the last 40 years. We employ a ton of high school kids. The biggest issue we have is employee theft. Thankfully we don't sell expensive merchandise so the loss if any is minimal.

We tell all employees the first day they work that the only person who can authorize no charge or discounts is me or my parents. It never fails about once a year that we have to fire someone because they think they are smarter than us and try to give their friends something for free. Whenever I have had to deal with an issue like this after they lie about being a thief the employee usually feels like he or she has done nothing wrong and they somehow have a right to give away free stuff.

I am in my mid twenties but look like I am a teenager and blend in pretty well with our staff. Pretty often I have friend or family of employees come in and ask to get stuff for free or discounted.

I know in the restaurant or deli business it's even worse. There is a local restaurant/ bar where a few of my friends or acquaintances work that I know if I wanted to I could drink or eat for free. The same goes for a out door shop next to me, they had no inventory control and I would regularly watch employees give their friends free stuff. Just tonight I had an employee brag to me about how he gets free food at a local stop and rob cause a friend works there and gets free food at a pizzeria from another friend.

I don't know how places stay in business, the employees seem to feel like they have the right to steal.

Well I'm as honest as the sun is bright & I'd offer to come work for you except your in New York.

Posted: 7/7/2010 8:41:23 PM EDT

[#43]

Employee theft is usually the number cause of inventory variances in retail establishments.

Posted: 7/7/2010 9:00:53 PM EDT

[#44]

Worked at McD's while in HS - I pissed off quite a few of the folks I went to school with because I
wouldn't give them free food. I figured that I was making decent $$, and the manager was good
about working with me on my schedule because I was a good worker, so it wasn't worth getting
canned over a 20-piece McNugget or a Happy Meal.

Was I the unusual case? Probably. Several other folks that I worked with were canned for that
sort of thing.

Posted: 7/7/2010 9:41:39 PM EDT

[#45]

I busted a scam where two kids worked at the movie theater. The girl sold tickets, the boy took the tickets from the guest. What they would do is she would sell twenty tickets, and he would take the whole ticket, and if questioned would just tell the person they didnt need it. He would then give the ticket back to the girl, who would sell the same twenty tickets over and over. We estimated they stole over $10K over 4 months until the Owner called us in to see why his theaster was loosing so much money. He couldnt figure it out. Half of the problem was the two were his "best employees". They knew his every move. My lead agent picked up on them within 2 minutes after meeting them. Owner said, "they were not part of his problem." We focused on them and told the Owner we were looking into the candy sales clerk. We put in pinhole camera over the candy counter, telling the owner. What we didnt tell him was we were watching the two at the door with video equipment from the parking lot.
Nailed them the first night and yes during the theft interview both said they thought we were watching the candy counter...the owner tipped them off still thinking they were his "best most trusted employees".

Posted: 7/9/2010 3:27:24 PM EDT

[#46]

I told the idiot we would send him his check as he didn't need to come in. Two week pay period doesn't end till next week. Fucking jackass just called demanding his paycheck and his tips. Fucking dickhole steals from us and now he's mad that he isn't getting paid quick enough.

Posted: 7/9/2010 3:35:40 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The "entitlement mentality", don't you love it?

Basically it.

So what caused it prior to the entitlement era we're living in? Cause it existed then too.

Posted: 7/9/2010 3:42:32 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Employee theft is usually the number one cause of inventory variances in retail establishments.

Yep, I have worked on a lot of security camera systems for retailers for the past 14 years. The old saying is that more is lost out the back door than the front door.

Posted: 7/9/2010 4:40:37 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Morals are sinking faster than the titanic in this nation.

I knew a kid, who would have his friends come in and purchase something, they would pay with a ten, and he would give them change for a hundred.

How did he explain his drawer shortage?

No doubt it happens, but I wonder what one says to one's boss when end of shift comes up and the drawer's $100 short...

Posted: 7/9/2010 4:45:06 PM EDT

[#50]

Owned a steel fab shop for years. Employees will steal a lot of stuff that if they asked you would give them for free. Stuff like drops I'd give to employees for projects for free up to a point. But they rather steal it instead of asking.

We used to sell our scrap and a percentage of it was used to pay for a crawfish boil twice a year for the guys in the shop and their family etc...and everyone got a half day of work out of the deal.

Came in one day early and found the guy running the saw cutting up new beams I paid $0.40/pound for into 1 foot sections to make more scrap to sell for $0.01/pound so they could have more beer at the parties.....

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Employee theft acceptable? (Page 1 of 2)

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