Arafat and PLO?

[size=4]Bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut[/size=4]
 
A suicide bomber detonated a truck full of explosives at a U.S. Marine barracks located at Beirut International Airport; 241 U.S. Marines were killed and more than 100 others wounded. They were part of a contingent of 1,800 Marines that had been sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational force to help separate the warring Lebanese factions. (Twice during the early 1980s the U.S. had deployed troops to Lebanon [b]to deal with the fall-out from the 1982 Israeli invasion[/b]. In the first deployment, Marines helped oversee the peaceful withdrawal of the PLO from Beirut. In mid-September 1982 -- after the U.S. troops had left -- [b]Israel's Lebanese allies massacred an estimated 800 unarmed Palestinian civilians[/b] remaining in refugee camps. [b]Following this, 1,800 Marines had been ordered back into Lebanon.[/b])

In his September 2001 FRONTLINE interview, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said the U.S. still lacks "actual knowledge of who did the bombing" of the Marine barracks. But it suspected Hezbollah, believed to be supported in part by Iran and Syria. Hezbollah denied its involvement.

The president assembled his national security team to devise a plan of military action. The planned target was the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations. Instead, President Reagan ordered the battleship USS New Jersey, stationed off the coast of Lebanon, to the hills near Beirut. The move was seen as largely ineffective.

Four months after the Marine barracks bombing, U.S. Marines were ordered to start pulling out of Lebanon.

Read "See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism"
by Robert Baer, Iran/Hezbollah almost beyond doubt, we just backed down on the investigation.

I have read that Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

If all you're looking for is information in this post, I have no problem with that. However, if you intend to slander the victims of this atrocity, or somehow denigrate their duty or deaths, you're going to have a problem on your hands. Your initial post contains nothing of that nature, but I have to say that I'm concerned.

Hezbollah, as everyone knows.
With support from Iran and Syria.

Arafat, at the time he was head of the PLO.
The two terrorist groups were/are allies.
They operated in the same areas, they shared the same goals, they shared the same enemies.

Was Arafat involved in the bombing of the barracks?
There's no direct evidence, but there are reports that he and his organization provided Hezbollah with logistical support.

Don't worry Jarhead, I just want to establish some factual information on the attack.  There was one poster who claimed Yassar Arafat and the PLO were responsible for the attack.

I just wanted to show who carried out the attack (Hezbollah same one responsible for the US Embassy bombing a few months earlier).  I also wanted to show the circumstances leading up to the attack.

Why is this important?  Because we're about to see the same scenario played out again.

DaMan

Do you have some intelligence or evidence to share, or just cryptic statements?

DaMan thinks that we will now send Marine Peacekeepers.
In his mind, that means that we will also foolishly set up an exact scenario, so that the bombing can happen again.
He thinks that Marine Peacekeepers=Bombed Barracks.

Fool us once.....

Major Murphy, with a "sugar daddy" like Iran and the support of Syria, [b]I think it HIGHLY unlikely that Hezbollah received "logistical support" from the PLO[/b]. If anything, the opposite would be the case.

DaMan  

DaMan,

Iran and Syria did not have logistocs bases in the area.
They used the networks that were in place: PLO.

Logistical support requires troops on the ground, not just a bank account.  It's common knowledge that terror groups throughout that area have always provided each other with mutual support.

Sorry this set of facts doesn't fit into your bizarre defense of Arafat.
Good luck.

Hadn't the Syrians chased the PLO out of Lebannon by then?  I seem to remember that the PLO had to move to Libya sometime in that timeframe.

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, Major Murphy.  But you're wrong!

What I see is various Palestinian factions staging attacks from the north in an effort to draw Hezbollah (and thus Syria) into the conflict.  It seems the Israelis are all too happy to go along with this plan.

This would open a northern front.  Just like the last time Israel invaded Lebanon, they will get tired of the casualties and cost of occupation.  Then they'll look for ersatz troops to take over their occupation.  And they won't want UN troops currently in the Golan and other border areas!

DaMan      

'You tell 'em for me, DaMan, I had absolutely nothing to do with the Marine Barracks, nor did I giggle like a silly Meccan schoolgirl when I heard of the...er...disaster!'
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020328/capt.1017349218.mideast_israel_palestinians_nn105.jpg[/img]
'At the time of the Marine Barracks explosion, I was holed up in a small cublicle in the City of Beirut, surrounded by the tanks of the Israeli Defense Forces, pizzing my pants.

'Hmmm, much like I am doing today, except I am in Ramallah, surrounded by the tanks of the Israeli Defense Forces, pizzing my pants.

'It is [i][b]deja vu[/b][/i], all over again.'

'I am finished now. Could I use someone's left hand for a few moments, mine is trembling so hard I can barely wipe.'

That's [u]your[/u] cue, DaMan![:D]

Eric The(Buh-ByeYasser!)Hun[>]:)]

Nice try again, Major Murphy! I'm not trying to "defend Arafat".  I'm just trying to point out who was responsible.

Syria and Iran had no "logistical support" in the area?  ARE YOU KIDDING?!!!!

DaMan

What do you mean Iran did not have logistics bases there in Lebanon ! They were kidnapping foreigners and holding them in a camp as well as transporting them to Iran and back. They being Iranian paramiltary , read the book i mentioned.

No, dummy(DaMan), that's not what I said.
Syria and Iran HAD "logistical support" in the area, it was provided by Various Terror Factions (including Arafat).

Syria and Iran did not PROVIDE logistical support (other than Money and a few men) in the area.

I damn sure have something to say on this subject.

The Marine sentries were standing there with either completely unloaded weapons or with a loaded mag but with no round chambered.
Why ??  Because either the Marine Corps brass, the Navy brass or the politicians were so fearful of accidentally shooting someone they decreed it was better to risk the lives of a few Marines.

From Korea, to Vietnam and all the incidents in between (The USS Pueblo, The USS Liberty, etc.,) the U.S. government has proven to be far more concerned with political considerations than the lives of a few mere military personnel !

This attitude stunk then and it stinks now.

110% agree 5subslr5.

Just think how that scenario could have played out differently if the Marine at the gate had been carrying a locked and loaded M16 instead of scrabbling to pull a magazine out of his pouch as the truck shot by him.

I have a friend who was buried in that rubble, and one of my Drill Instructors was guarding the gate (later I heard that he was in tears, as his weapon emptied).

The number of rounds they were allowed to have in their weapons was actually debated in congress.

However, had the post been manned by a .50 Cal, and they had blown up the Truck right outside the gate, the damage would have been worse.
Not that the matters now.

Eric,
as a simple observer your responses to certain posters seem to be needlessly provocative.
With your language skills you have no need to argue at this level.

Undoubtedly boring but more on point I finally believe it is time for both Arafat and Sharon to go.

(By the way, 'my' left hand is busy !)

Thank you for that reliable source of information, ilikelegs! [:P]

[b]Gamla Intelligence
Newsletter -  
Description: Provides English and Hebrew versions of an online magazine covering Israeli political news and issues.[/b]

I'll have to bookmark this net to DEBKA! [:P]

DaMan

Post from 5subslr5 -

Well, arguing at any other level has proven pretty pointless as well, [b]subsailor[/b], so I give just as good as I take!

You don't see any humor at all in my 'Arafat' photo and post?

Surely, you jest?[:D]

Eric The(SnidelyWhiplashOfAR15.com)Hun[>]:)]

jarhead_22,
I guess what disturbs me the most about all these incidents is that both Republicans and Dimocrats do-not-care.
Yes Johnson was undoubtedly the worst but  Republicans get their share of the blame.

We never seem to learn anything.  Right now in the Afghan we have soldier's directly in harms way with CQB weapons and CQB ammunition fighting in the damn mountains.

Everything that was needed was known prior to this war and still our people were again deployed with incorrect weapons.  It is bad, bad, when the first enemy that must be defeated is Washington D.C.

(Snarl, snap, bitch and growl !)

Clinton was bad mouthed for pulling out of Somilia, after the incident there, and justifiably so. I consider that mission a success.. the objectives were captured, and who knows how many somolias were killed few hundred to few thousand,, At a price to us, unfortunately, but small compared to theirs.. My cousin was flying one of the AC-130's that went back later and leveled one of Adid's houses.  Regan only lobbed a few 16" rounds into the hills, then pulled out after loosing 200 plus brave Americans,, was really let down by that..But I guess more than we will know was involved....

As usual I have considerable enjoyment from your posts but I also see 'tiny' troll-like symptoms beginning to occur over the last few weeks where before there were none.

(My left hand is still busy wiping my own ass !)

5subslr5,  I agree, time to pull M-14's out of mothballs and re-issue, at least to part of the troops,,, or do you have something else in mind??

I wish I could believe "more than we know was involved" but I cannot.

Once as a young sailor I had Shore Patrol duty one night when 10,000 protestors marched past protesting our 'possible' nuclear presence.

Turned out the protestors were completely peaceful (Japanese) and that was very fortunate for me me as I was armed with a night stick and an empty .45.
Somehow after that night I realized I was expendable.

I learn something new every day!  Now I have learned from Major Murphy that the Syrian Army in Lebanon relied on the "logistical" support of the PLO!  [:P]

And the same is true for the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who set up training camps and facilites in the Bakaa Valley!  [:P]

The PLO got their butts kicked out of Lebanon, [b]but they had one HELL of a lot of supplies that they got from somewhere![/b][:P]

Now where the heck do you suppose those PLO fellers got all their supplies to share with the Syrian Army and the Iranians?  Think they pulled that stuff out of their butts???! [:P]

DaMan

Hey dummy, do you really think Hezbollah were supplied and supported by a logistics base that was FLYING THE FLAG OF EITHER IRAN OR SYRIA???

No.
It was done underground, dummy.

Yes, much of the weapons and explosives originally came from Iran and Syria, but they were employed and transported by the region's terror groups (PLO included), not in big Iranian Convoys flying the flag of Iran, dummy.

All that was said, and you can't seem to refute, is that the PLO, as well as many other terror groups, cooperated with Hezbollah (as they always have), in the execution of this operation.

If this was an operation conducted by the Iranian Army, or the Syrian Army, we'd have been at war, dummy.

That the PLO aided Hezbollah in this instance, does not mean that the PLO provides Logisitcs support for the Syrian Army, dummy.
Only a dummy would gather this from what I've said, dummy.

Lou,
what small information I've gotten from those either in the Afghan or those few who actually know something all indicate they would rather stay with 5.56mm weapons but change barrels and ammunition.
Actually a better way to say this might be to have a mix of 5.56mm weapons.

When it is taking multiple hits to bring down a 'doer' inside 100 yards something is powerful wrong.

WOW !!

You've achieved the coveted 'six dummy' post.

Thank you, thank you.

"dummy" is my version of the DaMan [:P]
It's used for emphasis when addressing DaMan.

[:)]

Duh!!!!! You don't say! I would never have thought of that, Major Murphy!  I thought the Hezbollah would just drive their old Mercedes out of the Bekaa and draw supplies from the nearest Syrian supply room!  [b]YOU MEAN THIS WAS DONE CLANDESTINELY[/b]???!!  

Damn!  Who would have thunk it???!! [:P]

DaMan

 

Well said, dummy.

Check this out!  [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=105847[/url]

Check out Mr. Friedman's point #4!

It's coming!  American peacekeepers to the rescue!

DaMan

5subslr5, Ok, everything i See i photos and news reports,, everybody's carrying M-4's or car type weapons,, so longer barrells with increased velocity,, and M193 55 grain with its thin jacket and  tendancy to fragment and "tumble" which I use loosely, would be better than , I am assuming the green tip.. which is supposed to actually be superior to M-14 rounds at distances,, still if I was shooting 300+yards, i would feel more comfortable with my M-14, than with my a-2 govt carbine with greentip,,, call me old school I guess,, Oh I see your sig...AR10,, I've always wanted to try one of those...

The aggression on this board has taken a turn for the worst. Some of you need some fresh air.

Guilty...
...but it's aggression with a smile, Rip. [:)]

DEBKA and gamla!  Next..... the "secret weapon".... The National Enquirer! [:P]

DaMan

What's it to you, anyway?

Arafat and PLO?

[size=4]Bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut[/size=4]
 
A suicide bomber detonated a truck full of explosives at a U.S. Marine barracks located at Beirut International Airport; 241 U.S. Marines were killed and more than 100 others wounded. They were part of a contingent of 1,800 Marines that had been sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational force to help separate the warring Lebanese factions. (Twice during the early 1980s the U.S. had deployed troops to Lebanon [b]to deal with the fall-out from the 1982 Israeli invasion[/b]. In the first deployment, Marines helped oversee the peaceful withdrawal of the PLO from Beirut. In mid-September 1982 -- after the U.S. troops had left -- [b]Israel's Lebanese allies massacred an estimated 800 unarmed Palestinian civilians[/b] remaining in refugee camps. [b]Following this, 1,800 Marines had been ordered back into Lebanon.[/b])

In his September 2001 FRONTLINE interview, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said the U.S. still lacks "actual knowledge of who did the bombing" of the Marine barracks. But it suspected Hezbollah, believed to be supported in part by Iran and Syria. Hezbollah denied its involvement.

The president assembled his national security team to devise a plan of military action. The planned target was the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations. Instead, President Reagan ordered the battleship USS New Jersey, stationed off the coast of Lebanon, to the hills near Beirut. The move was seen as largely ineffective.

Four months after the Marine barracks bombing, U.S. Marines were ordered to start pulling out of Lebanon.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Hmmmm, I'll have to be more careful about with whom I associate, if you see 'tiny troll-like symptoms' developing!

Maybe I should be using industrial strength Hun-wrap to protect against such infection.[:D]

But I tried the calm and reasonable approach and got nowhere. My present strategy works a whole lot better in disciplining the troops.

Nothing works better at getting someone's undivided attention than 'a slap up side the head with a 2 x 4.'

Eric The(FarmShop)Hun[>]:)]

------------------------------------------------
So why do you squeal when unarmed Israelis are killed?  Is that different, ilikelegs?  

DaMan

[size=4]Clinton White House axed terror-fund probe[/size=4]
By Jerry Seper  THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The Clinton administration shut down a 1995 investigation of Islamic charities, [b]concerned that a public probe would expose Saudi Arabia's suspected ties to a global money-laundering operation that raised millions for anti-Israel terrorists, federal officials told The Washington Times[/b].

Law enforcement authorities and others close to the aborted investigation said the State Department pressed federal officials to pull agents off the previously undisclosed probe after the charities were targeted in the diversion of cash to groups that fund terrorism.
   
Former federal prosecutor John J. Loftus said four interrelated Islamic foundations, institutes and charities in Virginia with more than a billion dollars in assets [b]donated by or through the Saudi Arabian government[/b] were allowed to continue under "a veil of secrecy."
   
"If federal agents had been allowed to conduct the investigation they wanted in 1995, they would have made the connection between the [b]Saudi government[/b] and those charities," said Mr. Loftus, now a St. Petersburg, Fla., lawyer who filed a lawsuit last week accusing a Florida charity of fraud.
   
"Had the charities been shut down, they would have been unable to raise the millions that since have been used by terrorists in hundreds of suicide attacks," he said.
   
Federal agents last week began a new investigation, known as "Operation Green Quest," into the funding by charities of suspected terrorists, raiding 14 Islamic businesses in Virginia. Agents from the U.S. Customs Service, Internal Revenue Service, Immigration and Naturalization Service and FBI, coordinated by a Treasury Department counterterrorism task force, seized two dozen computers, along with hundreds of bank statements and other documents.
   
Records in the case have been sealed and no arrests have been announced, although the probe is continuing.
   
The Loftus suit, filed March 20 under the Florida Consumer Protection Act, accuses the [b]Saudi government[/b] in a massive scheme involving charities in Virginia and Florida that routed cash to terrorists.
   
The suit's main target is Sami Al-Arian, a former University of South Florida professor who created or was associated with several Florida charities or think tanks, including the International Committee for Palestine, Islamic Concern Project and the now-defunct World and Islam Studies Enterprise.
   
Warrants served by agents in the Virginia raids last week targeted, among others, the International Institute of Islamic Thought in Herndon, a major source of funding for Mr. Al-Arian's World and Islam Studies Institute.
   
The warrants sought information on Islamic Jihad, Hamas, the Islamic Concern Project, the World and Islam Studies Enterprise, and Mr. Al-Arian. They also sought information on the SAAR Foundation, an educational and health charity founded by the Al-Rajihi family of Saudi Arabia.
   
- continued -

The Islamic Concern Project and the World and Islam Studies Enterprise have been named by the State Department as front organizations that raised funds for militant Islamic-Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas. They have been tied to the diversion of millions of dollars to terrorists for weapons, safe haven, training and equipment.
   
Nail Al-Jubeir, spokesman for the Saudi information office in Washington, called the accusations "simply nonsense," adding that Saudi Arabia has cracked down on terrorists and those who fund them.

Mr. Al-Najjar, who is Mr. Al-Arian's brother-in-law, was detained and ordered deported by the INS on visa violations after the September 11 attacks on America. He is being held at a federal detention center in Florida pending appeal.
   
In the aborted 1995 investigation, the FBI said in a sealed affidavit that the Islamic Concern Project and World and Islam Studies Enterprise — working with charities in Virginia — committed fraud and "served as a vehicle by which [Islamic Jihad] raised funds to support terrorist activities in the occupied territories."
   
In that probe, investigators found that checks drawn on a bank account of the International Committee for Palestine had been cashed by people in the Middle East. They said the checks had been signed by Mr. Al-Arian.
   
Mr. Loftus is seeking an injunction blocking Florida charities, including those headed by Mr. Al-Arian, from transferring "money, weapons, equipment or communications gear" to terrorists.
   
Mr. Al-Arian has vigorously denied any wrongdoing, calling the Loftus lawsuit a "publicity stunt." His attorney, Robert McKee, did not return calls to his office for comment.
       
[b]Accusations that the Saudi government used charities as front organizations to fund international terrorism are long-standing, first surfacing 20 years ago when U.S. intelligence officials warned Congress that the Saudis had taken over the direct funding of terrorist groups such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas.[/b]
   
One former and three current federal law enforcement officials said the new probe began after U.S. officials learned that intelligence agents in India had wiretapped the telephone of a Pakistani charity funded by the Saudi government and discovered the transfer of $100,000 to Mohamed Atta, one of the 19 al Qaeda hijackers in the September 11 attacks.
   
That information helped U.S. officials identify the 19 hijackers, 15 of whom were from Saudi Arabia, the officials said.
   
After the suicide strikes on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the officials said Treasury's interagency task force was created to investigate ties between charitable organizations in this country and international terrorist groups.
   
That ongoing probe, according to the officials, has focused on accusations that several tax-exempt and nonprofit charities operating from Virginia to Florida have contributed millions of dollars to international groups that support terrorism, including Islamic Jihad and Hamas.

See article at:[url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20020402-86569840.htm[/url]

Uh-oh, [b]DaMan[/b], looks like your favorite government of all time has been messing around with all sorts of terrorists! [b]Can you believe that?[/b]

Eric The(SoDaMan,WhatDoYouThink?)Hun[>]:)]

DaMan, to answer your question: The same people that are going to blow our asses up if we send troops to Israel to seperate the Israelis and Palestinians and safeguard the "peace process."