...Arabia isn't actively encouraging suicide bombers by pledging funds for their families, read these articles and weep! (I almost said any 'idiot', but I promised to be nice)

Cited in:[url]http://www.westerndefense.org/articles/SaudiArabia/march01.htm[/url]

[i][b]Arab News[/b][/i], Saudi Arabia, 15 March 2001
[b]Summary of report from Jeddah[/b]

"The Islamic Development Bank (IDB) announced that it has transferred $15 million to the Palestinian Authority - the first installment of the $60 million approved by the bank to support the PA budget. The money is part of a $1 billion fund set up by Arab leaders to help the Palestinian people who are suffering harsh economic conditions due to the blockade imposed by Israeli forces since the outbreak of the Intifada six months ago. At an emergency summit in Cairo in October, Arab leaders set up the Al-Aqsa and Intifada funds. Saudi Arabia pledged one quarter of the Al-Aqsa Fund ($250 million).

"Dr. Ahmed Muhammad Ali, president of the IDB, which was chosen by the Arab League to administer the money injected into the funds, said the funds' supervising board has already transferred $15 million to the PA to boost its dwindling budget. [b]The IDB had earlier approved $14 million from the Intifada Fund to support families of Palestinian martyrs killed by Israeli soldiers[/b], pay for medical treatment and rehabilitation of the injured and provide assistance to university students. The IDB board approved a further $10 million as a grant to the PLO Ministry of Health to finance medical staff salaries, equipment, training and rehabilitation programs."

- continued -

From Ain-Al-Yaqeen.com Editorial dated 10-27-2000:

"When Prince Abdullah stood to represent his country and call for the establishment of [b]funds to support the families of the martyrs of the uprising[/b] and protect the Arab identity of the Holy Islamic places, with a capital of One Billion US dollars in which the contribution of the Kingdom is equal to the quarter of the full amount, he truly represented the stands of the Kingdom which kept itself out of the equation that made us look as failures in the face of our duty.

"Following the method of the Kingdom which links words to deeds Crown Prince Abdullah Ibn Abdul Aziz, Deputy Prime Minister and Commander of the National Guard called on the Arab Summit for the establishment of two funds the first called the 'Al Quds Intifada' 'the uprising', with a capital of $200 million that would be allocated to the [b]families of the martyrs who were killed in the uprising[/b] and the second fund called 'Al Aqsa Fund' with a capital of $800 million for financing the projects that would preserve the Arab and Islamic characteristics of the Al Quds 'Jerusalem'.

"Moreover Prince Abdullah declared in his address that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will undertake the support of [b]1000 Palestinian families from the families of the martyrs and the injured of the uprising[/b]. He also called on the Arab countries to stop building relationships with Israel and that any sort of relationships which started during the period of peace should be annulled. He said that resumption of these relationships should be linked with true achievements to realize peace not only on the Palestinian track but also on all the other tracks.

See article at:[url]http://www.ain-al-yaqeen.com/issues/20001027/feat1en.htm[/url]

From 'In Brief' Notes from Ain-Al-Yaqeen, 10-08-1999:

"Prince Salman Ibn Abdul Aziz Emir of Riyadh Province and Chairman of the Public Committee for Supporting Palestine's Mujahideen gave instructions to transfer the sum of 1,617,722 SR from the committee's revenues to the Palestinian National Fund of the PLO [b]to support families of martyrs[/b] and prisoners in occupied territories."

See article at:[url]http://www.ain-al-yaqeen.com/issues/19991008/feat9en.htm[/url]

- continued -

From 'progressive' Common Dreams.org, citing  
[i][b]Agence France-Presse[/b][/i], 10-21-2000:

[size=4]Saudi Arabia Urges Arabs To Cut Ties With Israel[/size=4]  

"CAIRO - Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz called Saturday for Arab leaders to set up solidarity funds for the Palestinians worth a total of one billion dollars and to cut all ties with Israel.

"He proposed setting aside 200 million dollars for families of Palestinians killed in clashes with Israel and the other 800 million dollars for development projects in the Palestinian territories.

"Saudi Arabia would contribute 250 million dollars to the two funds, said the crown prince, representing the ailing King Fahd at a Cairo summit.

"Also, the king would [b]'look after 1,000 families of martyrs of the intifada',[/b] he said, referring to those killed in clashes with Israeli forces in the three-week-old Palestinian uprising."

See article at:[url]http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/102100-01.htm[/url]

From the [b]Palestinian National Authority's[/b] International Press Center, 11-30-2000:

"On 21st Oct 2000, the Arab Summit was convened in Cairo. Arab Finance Ministers attended a meeting at Arab League H.Q., in order to discuss mechanism of implementing the Summit's decisions. Two papers presented one by Egypt, in coordination with Saudi Arabia and the second by PNA Finance Ministry.
[b]US$ 200 millions were allocated to 'Jerusalem Intifada Fund to help families of the martyrs and the wounded.[/b]

See article at:[url]http://www.ipc.gov.ps/ipc_e/ipc_e-1/e_Conferences/2000/ipc-e_conf36.html[/url]

- continued -

From arabicnews.com:

[size=4]Saudi Arabia completes contribution to Arab funds for Palestinians[/size=4]
Saudi Arabia-Palestine, Economics, 12/10/2001

"Saudi Arabia has completed its contribution to the Al-Aqsa Fund and the Intifada Fund, amounting to $ 250 million.

"The Saudi contribution to the Intifada fund ($ 50 million) will help extend assistance [b]to the families of martyrs and finance the education of children.[/b]"

See article at:[url]http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/011210/2001121030.html[/url]

From the Saudi Arabian Information Resource:

[b]20/03/2001 Summary of the Kingdom's assistance to Palestinians[/b]  
Riyadh, 20 March 2001

"The total assistance provided to date by the Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to the government and brotherly people of Palestine amounts to SR 8,900,000,000 it was announced here today.

"The Minister explained that the resources of the Fund were US$ 200 million and the Kingdom’s share in the Fund was US$ 50 million. He noted that the Fund was established [b]to assist the families of the intifada martyrs, to educate their sons and rehabilitate the injured[/b]."

See article at:[url]http://www.saudinf.com/main/y2283.htm[/url]

- continued -

[size=4]17/07/2001 Saudi Arabia sponsors 283 needy Palestinian families[/size=4]  
Jeddah, 17th July 2001

"As many as 283 Palestinian needy families were sponsored by Saudi philanthropists, who responded to an appeal for financial support issued by a high-level committee chaired by Prince Abdulmajeed bin Abdul Aziz, Governor of Makkah, it was reported here today.

"The report said the committee has received donations from a number of charity organizations and individuals [b]to provide regular financial support for 283 families of Palestinian martyrs[/b], injured or prisoners of war worth 12 thousand Saudi riyal annually."

See article at:[url]http://www.saudinf.com/main/y2797.htm[/url]

From the New York Post, April 1, 2002:

[size=4]SAUDI SUBVERSION IN AMERICA[/size=4]

By STEPHEN SCHWARTZ

April 1, 2002 -- FEDERAL law enforcement has kicked over quite an anthill in Northern Virginia. A U.S. Treasury task force, Operation Green Quest, has been investigating the funding of Islamic terror. Raids on March 20 struck an extraordinary array of financial, charitable and ostensibly religious entities identified with Muslim and Arab concerns in this country, most of them headquartered in Northern Virginia.

Reaction to the raids suggests the Feds inflicted serious injury on the Wahhabi lobby, the Saudi-backed extremist network that largely controls Islam in America. Officials of the targeted groups as well as their non-Muslim apologists - notably GOP operative Grover Norquist, the chief enabler of Islamic extremists seeking access to the White House - have condemned the raids as civil-rights violations.

The convoluted system of interlocking directorates, global banking transactions and ideological activities exposed in Northern Virginia will take time to sort out. Operation Green Quest has drawn attention to a previously overlooked aspect of support for extremism in this country: The principal threat comes not from the thousands of working-class Arab immigrants in places like New Jersey and Michigan who contribute modest sums to the so-called Islamic charities, but from the Arab elite.

- continued -

[b]The Saudis stand behind all of it. The kingdom pledged $400 million last year for the support of "martyrs' families," according to the Saudi Embassy's Web site. At $5,300 per "martyr," that works out to about 75,000 martyrs, suggesting the Saudi princes anticipate a lot more suicide bombings than Israel has yet suffered. The Saudis offered a fraudulent "peace" plan this year intended to divert attention from their involvement in the horrors of Sept. 11.[/b]

The keystone of the Saudi-sponsored Northern Virginia network is the Saar Foundation, created by Suleiman Abdul Al-Aziz al-Rajhi, a scion of one of the richest Saudi families. The Saar Foundation is connected to Al-Taqwa, a shell company formerly based in Switzerland, where its leading figures included a notorious neo-Nazi and Islamist, Ahmed Huber.

Subsequently moved to the United States, Al-Taqwa was shut down after Sept. 11 and its assets frozen by U.S. presidential order. But operations continued, as the Wahhabi lobby shifted to its backup institutions here.

Saar has also been linked to Khalid bin Mahfouz, former lead financial adviser to the Saudi royal family and ex-head of the National Commercial Bank of Saudi Arabia. Mahfouz has been named by French intelligence as a backer of Osama bin Laden; Mahfouz endowed the Muwafaq Foundation, which U.S. authorities confirm was an arm of bin Laden's terror organization. Muwafaq's former chief, Yassin al-Qadi, oversaw the financial penetration of Bosnia-Herzegovina and Albania by Wahhabi terrorists in the late 1990s.

Men like al-Rajhi, Mahfouz and al-Qadi are the big players in the financing of Islamic extremism. And their paths repeatedly lead back to Northern Virginia. They don't play for small stakes: Saar received $1.7 billion in donations in 1998, although this was left out of the foundation's tax filings until 2000. No explanation has been offered for this bit of accounting sorcery.

A major personality on the ground in Virginia is an individual named Jamal Barzinji, whose office in Herndon was a major target of the raids. In 1980, he was listed in local public records as a representative of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), an arm of the Saudi regime with offices in Virginia. WAMY has been deeply involved in providing cover for Wahhabi terrorism.

The 2002 entry in the U.S. Business Directory lists the president of the WAMY office in Annandale, Va., as Abdula bin Laden - the terrorist's younger brother.

- cntinued -

Barzinji serves as a trustee and officer of the Amana Mutual Funds Trust, a growth and income fund headquartered in Bellingham, Wash., conveniently near the Canadian border. Amana's board also includes Yaqub Mirza, a Pakistani physicist who shares Barzinji's Herndon office address and who is widely described as a financial genius.

Another board member and tenant in the Herndon office is Samir Salah. He formerly ran a branch of Al-Taqwa in the Caribbean, heads a financial firm linked to Saar and directs Dar al-Hijra, a mosque in Falls Church, Va., notable for hardline Wahhabi preaching. Salah is also deeply involved with Taibah International Aid Association, a Virginia charity with a Bosnian branch that is being investigated by authorities in Sarajevo.

Front groups interfacing between the Wahhabi-Saudi money movers under federal suspicion and the broader American public include two institutions active in the religious field: the International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT) and the Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences (GSISS).

The involvement of GSISS with the financing of extremism is especially startling in that it alone is credentialed by the Department of Defense to certify Muslim chaplains for the U.S. armed forces. Barzinji has appeared on the boards of both.

The day of the raids, Barzinji appeared on U.S. television news insisting he knew of no questionable behavior by the groups under scrutiny and promising full cooperation with the authorities. But in a familiar pattern of duplicity, he expressed himself quite differently in the Islamic media.

Barzinji told the Internet news service Islam Online (www. islam-online.net) he believed the investigations fulfilled the will not of the Bush administration, but of "elements within the government, media and [academia] who were unhappy with the positive attention being given to Muslims."

This tortured formulation, repeated in several variations, embodies the Islamist fantasy that every doubt cast on the activities of the Wahhabi lobby is the product of Jewish influence.

To imagine that the aftermath of Sept. 11 has been anything but disastrous for the image and credibility of American Muslims is absurd. The presumption that anybody outside government dictates policy to the Treasury, however, is only the classic supposition about alleged Israeli influence that infests the Arab mind.

Perhaps it's to be expected that the Wahhabi lobby would react to a federal investigation with its usual combination of pseudopatriotic protest, claims of innocence and paranoia. But perhaps the White House might suggest to friends like Norquist that they should stop trying to protect enablers of terrorism. Otherwise, more and more people will wonder whether the administration really understands the problems afflicting Islam in the United States, and whether it really is united in resisting the influence of the extremists.

See article at:[url]http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/44812.htm[/url]

Eric The(ThisIsJustTheTipOfTheIceberg)Hun[>]:)]

I have been saying all along, the way to deal with suicide bombers is to liquidate their entire family. They themselves are not afraid of death, but if they knew they were taking their families with them they may think twice.  At least if the family were killed too, there would be nobody to cash in on the reward.

JMO

Eric, it is pretty well known that Saudi Arabia, another of our supposed allies, is the global center for Radical Fundamantal Islamic teachings.

This is mostly because Saudi is the most developed, advanced and well financed of the Arab states. Do you really think radical institutions are going to be built in shitholes like Afghanistan? Of course the second nicest schools that promote radical Muslim Fundamentalism might be here in the US.

Our country put and kept the Saudi Royal Family in power, much like the Iranian Shaw. And this is how they repay us. Well this and considering the idea of asking us to LEAVE. This would of course involve abandoning everything we built and put in place, such as trivial things like military bases.

I can only hope that Saudi is NEXT on the list, under Iraq of countries "that promote, sponsor and harbor terrorism", and that they are dealt with accordingly.

But none of this is exactly enlightening or new. I would think this is pretty well known information to anyone who has even limited knowledge of the middle east.

You guys are going to force you-know-who to crawl out from under his rock and post more confusing messages. [;)]

My my, more fodder for DaMan and Steyr AUG...

"Oh but those poor Palistinian women and children." [pissed]

Post from SteyrAUG -

Oh, really? Well, I had written about this very topic right after Sept 11, and I'm certain that anyone with a modicum of knowledge of the Middle East would already know this as well.

But you need to tell it to [b]DaMan![/b]

Eric The(Arduous)Hun[>]:)]

Me being pissed off at Israel for screwing the United States does NOT make me Pro Palestine or anti semetic. It makes me PRO United States. Please keep up.

Post from Hank -

For the life of me I have never understood that fellow.  He goads everyone on and for what?

He never follows through, never has a point, he full of sass, and that's about it.

I have tried on at least three occasions to make peace with him, and I always rue the days I did.

Glad I got something out of this - if anyone ever says anything about Saudi Arabia not supporting the terrorists, well, I've got this thread red-flagged so I can come back and cram it down their throats.

Eric The(ReallyNiceGuy)Hun[>]:)]

Oh really, Steyr?

Yeah, I can just see how a country of 3.5million thats now dependant on the US and its population of 260million for just about everything is just screwing us over [;D]

And isn't it just terrible how the refuse to cooperate when ignorent assholes in Washington try to coerce them to do things that would get them killed...

If we had better supported them in the past we would not be in this situation now.

Eric, so what is the moral of the story?

Where does US policy lie in all of this?  Remember the harsh words of GWB?  Any nation or group that supports terrorism is itself a terrorist nation...

So where does that place us?  Are we supposed to change the status of the terrorist suicide bombers to "martyrs" so that we don't face the middle east with Israel or are we supposed to rescind on our policy "just this once" so we don't flame up the entire region?  

I know you're really into this topic, so please give me your best guestimate on what you think we'd do IF the government were to acknowledge these pledges from the terrorist arab regimes.  

Oh yeah, one more question for you...at my grandfather's wake today, our family got into a heated discussion about the middle east.  During which I stated that the Palestinians never had their own nation, all except one aunt disagreed with me, they all said that there was a Palestine nation.  Who was right?  Keep in mind I'm not talking about a group identity, I'm talking a legitimate (used loosely because they are Arab) nation, recognized by the world.

What THIS administration would do? Why worry about that, they still value the Saudi's for some reason so they are never going to make that public.

What we SHOULD do?
Just get off of Israels back and let them deal with it without interferance from us. And remind the Arab states that this isn't the 1970's anymore and a oil embargo means war.

And by your logic I suppose a black minority in this country could never pull off things like affirmative action, proposed slave reparations (which they will probably get), hate crime laws (which only apply to whites), grants and loans no white person could ever be eligible for, special assistance programs (again not for whites).....


Should I go on?

Israel is just another special interest group. Sharon is the Jewish Al Sharpton.

Gee, glad to see you hate everyone equally.

Your a real jerk, all you care about is how much money everything costs you, and how you think your not getting your propers fairly...

Sorry, I just can't get enough of this thread!

Heh-Heh-Heh.

Read it and weep, DaMan.

Eric The(ReallySassy)Hun[>]:)]

Nuke Mecca!!!

Then build a pig farm on the ruins!

Mickey Mouse, that is the best suggestion I have heard yet.  Find the most sensitive pressure point and squeeze.  Planerench out.

This is harsh, but true.

However, since 9/11 the enemy of Israel is also our enemy. Any equivocation of that reality is just stupid and corrupt and will be America's undoing. The Saudis are not our friends today, if they ever were, even if Israel is not an ideal friend either. When I see pictures of dead PLO, I see OUR enemies dead.

This is Clinton's legacy.

I couldn't say it better myself.  I just hope that Israel's gloves come off and the rest of the Arab states respond so the pig fat REALLY flies.  These nations breed terrorists, whether practicing or in theory.  

Anyone guessing how China would respond to us getting involved in a middle east war with all of the nations?  This is their backyard ya know!

i'm sure plenty of people will correct me, but i believe palestine was carved out of the ottoman empire which collapsed after ww1. palestine was administerd by the french, then the british with a mandate from the league of nations until the late 40s when the israelis took over.

The Middle East is not China's "backyard".  Afghanistan is lot closer to China than Israel is and the Chinese haven't really done anything about our involvement there, have they?

I honestly believe that the administration's fence-sitting with regard to Saudi Arabia is out of fear of the spectre of $4/gal gas prices.  I think that Bush is handling them with kid gloves, thinking that to do otherwise would cost him re-election.

-kill-9

So now I hate black people AND jews. All because I resent the ones who are taking unfair advantage? You really are a liberal huh? And y9ou are goddamn right I care what these groups are costing the US. It is MY tax dollars the I earned going to crap like this. If they are gonna take money from Americans, spend it on ALL Americans.

The figure spent on Israel is $133.132 billion. The fact that you find this acceptable proves my point and discredits you with most Americans.

Post from SteyrAUG -

I call [size=4]BullSh|t![/size=4]

Most Americans love Israel! SteyrAUG, you of all folks should know that!

Eric The(Honest)Hun[>]:)]

'Yasser, here! Hello, I am speaking to you from a 10 x 20 darkened cell in my sumptious office overlooking...half the friggin Israeli Defense Forces!!!!!'
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020328/capt.1017349218.mideast_israel_palestinians_nn105.jpg[/img]
'And they are pizzing on my patchouli bushes!'

Eric,
I can still remember that I was stunned at the response to my  post in September/October 2001 stating that Arabia was no friend and supplying terrorist world wide with money.  (No, you were not among the nay sayers.)

My how attitudes have changed.

Now attitudes here on the board may have changed but not the Arabians.  Still they fund the terrorists.

A truly thoughtful and superb idea !

You might start converting your vehicles to run on methane because that's only gas that pig farm is going to produce and the only gas you'll see.

Oh about that job you had - you'll be able to conserve methane as it is likely you won't need to commute to your job any longer.

An idea once employed in Lebanon by the Soviets with much success.

Let's apply your idea to those who kill innocents with either suicide bombers, helicopters, F-16's or tanks.

Post from 5subslr5 -

But, first, we must exempt the United States from this remedy, ok?

From certain, er, websites, I hear tell that the number of Afghan civilians who have been killed directly by US forces is well over 5,000!

We must exempt ourselves, gentlemen, from the consequences of our actions.

Or, we can just figure that war is hell and get on with it!

Eric The(ISayGetOnWithIt!)Hun[>]:)]

Alright, let's just stop giving a dime to either Israel or the Palestinians and let them get on with their war while we get on with ours.
-----------------------------------------------

The Arabs 'ARE' going to reduce the oil supply if the Israeli/Palestinian conflict continues unabated.

When gas prices top $2.00 at the pump and U.S. unemployment tops 8% then we'll see who is truly loyal to Israel to the exclusion of all others !

OOPS, my bad. Should have said REAL AMERICANS. Those few remaining souls who put the best interest of the United States ahead of any other country. This would of course exclude those living here that consider themselves "citizens of Israel" or have some religious view that Israel is the most important place on Earth.

One more reason we need to open protected areas drill and get our own damn oil. Support Israel's war on terrorism and let our so called "arab allies" drown in the oil we won't need to buy anymore.  I bet they drop the prices then!!!!! They'll beg us to buy it.

5subslr5 Posted:



So you are afraid of the terrorists and think we should surrender to them?  Shame on you!

Fact#1  The 73 oil embargo was engineered by American oil companies rather than SA.  The Arabs weren't smart enough.  Took ARAMCO to show them the way.

Fact #2  Russia can provide enough oil to replace what SA supplies.  They need the money anyway.

Fact #3  If we destroy SA and TAKE the oil for free what will prices do?  Drop, of course.  Just like if we had the balls to break OPEC as we should have done many years ago.

Where to buy gasoline and not support terrorism.. Actually is food for
thought. Yisrael Medad of the Begin Center sent the following information:

Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of
Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.
Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the
tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family,and my friends.

I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from.

Major companies that import Middle Eastern oil (for the period 9/1/00-8/31/01):
Shell           205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco  144,332,000 barrels
Exxon/Mobil     130,082,000 barrels
Marathon        117,740,000 barrels
Amoco            62,231,000 barrels

If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION!
   
Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
Citgo                     0 barrels
Sunoco                    0
Conoco                    0
Sinclair                  0
BP/Phillips               0

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and can
be easily documented. Refineries located in the U.S. are required to state
where they get their oil and how much they are importing. They report on a monthly basis.

Keep this list in your car; share it with friends. Stop paying for terrorism.


Bulldog OUT

Last week I returned from a 4 month deployment in Saudi. These people are in no way our friends. They are as evil as they come and hate us with a passion.

Hank, who is that creepy looking pasty faced bearded fat boy that you have on your signature photo?  Is that some sort of  science fiction author or serial murderer trying to creep us out???! [;)]

Just wondering!  DaMan

PS- Sorry I spanked you, Hank!  Keep biting at my heels!  [:P]

Now tell me, DaMan, do the Saudis fund terrorism in Israel and elsewhere or not?

You have all the proof you need, and have offered nothing in rebuttal.

So?

Eric The(I'mGonnaKeepAsking-YouKnowIt!)Hun[>]:)]

Well, you can only buy so many women and turbans with all that oil money and then you have to spend it on something!

Seriously, I hope oil goes to $20 a gallon. Then America can finally cure its dependence once and for all. As soon as a certain threshold is reached, alternative fuels such as methanol (short term) and fuel cells (longe term) become economically feasible to use and develop.  This is a great opportunity for America, not a crisis.

Hell, I wish the US would just stop funneling money to Israel altogether.  Let them do whatever they're going to do and let's be finished with this because it's ridiculous.