21 years later, why don't we have domestic production of more banned import guns?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 21 years later, why don't we have domestic production of more banned import guns?

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:01:49 PM EDT

HK and Beretta have factories in the US, correct? Why can't we get brand new semi-auto HK G36s, Beretta AR70s, SBR HK MP5s, etc... You can find AK-47s and AR-15s like crazy. I know people would buy these guns if they were to sell them to private citizens. What's the problem? Am I missing something?

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:03:22 PM EDT

[#1]

Government contracts and not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:04:50 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Government contracts and not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.

Among other things.
I heard H&K can't sell the stuff to civilians because of some law in Germany, but this is internet heresay, I never went and looked it up.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:06:14 PM EDT

[#3]

$$$$$

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:08:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Government contracts and not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.

Among other things.
I heard H&K can't sell the stuff to civilians because of some law in Germany, but this is internet heresay, I never went and looked it up.

Germany does restrict export of military arms but if HKUSA wanted to produce they would just need the go ahead from HKGmbH. Would probably upset both governments enough to jeopardize numerous contracts here and there.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:08:22 PM EDT

[#5]

Supply and Demand. I'd like to have a BM59, but, really, is it worth that much more than an M1A?

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:09:40 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

HK and Beretta have factories in the US, correct? Why can't we get brand new semi-auto HK G36s, Beretta AR70s, SBR HK MP5s, etc... You can find AK-47s and AR-15s like crazy. I know people would buy these guns if they were to sell them to private citizens. What's the problem? Am I missing something?

HK does not have a US factory. They only recently licensed a MFG to make their stuff in the US, and that MFG can only make the licensed items.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:11:48 PM EDT

[#7]

Look how long it took JLD Enterprises to make the PTR-91 (and make it profitable), and they had original HK tooling to boot.

You had jokers like Toad Baily making guns (how many people have spent ass-loads of money trying to get a "Spushul Wepen" to work right).

The AR market didn't really explode until AFTER the end of the ban.

Money, money and more money.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:14:05 PM EDT

[#8]

FN has current contracts, correct?

And they are selling how many different models?

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:23:32 PM EDT

[#9]

Yes, the import ban is about 21 years old.

However, you're forgetting that in 1994 we had an Assault Weapons ban that did not sunset until 2004. During the 2004 Presidential Election both candidates stated they would sign a new AWB into law should it ever cross their desk as President. I would say that gave certain foreign businesses a bit of apprehension about selling firearms that could quickly be banned in the United States. Now it would appear post Heller that the U.S. civilian market is an increasing more stable and secure market justifying investment.

I feel very confident that should McDonald v City of Chicago go our way (we know it will) than we'll see even more interest in foreign companies bringing product here to the United States of America.

Steyr is selling their A3 here in the United States of America. HK is going ahead with their 416. The Tavor was close to coming to our shores. Beretta is highly likely to bring in the AXR 160 and CZ is reported as confident that they'll be selling their new S805.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:25:31 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

FN has current contracts, correct?
And they are selling how many different models?

DOD is not preventing FN or HK or anybody else from selling firearm in the largest civilian firearms market in the world.
U.S. consumers last year purchased more firearms than the top 12 foreign military spending nations combined. Hard to argue with over 14 MILLION firearms sales in one year.
Any foreign company not seriously looking at entering the U.S. Civilian Market has zero business sense.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:26:09 PM EDT

[#11]

Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:29:08 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Steyr sells their AUG A3 here in the U.S. and right now you can pick one up for about $1,800.00. They are making a profit off their A3 sales and in fact just moved into a larger facility to handle U.S. sales, marketing, and support of their firearms here. They make their profit even with the cost of Austrian labor, shipping of Austrian made parts, cost of their U.S. Subcontractor Sabre Defense, and of course having to take dollars.

The Steyr A3 is affordable, dependable, and Steyr is happy and the U.S. owners of the A3 are happy.

If Steyr can do it so can every other gun company.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:29:09 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
FN has current contracts, correct?

And they are selling how many different models?

DOD is not preventing FN or HK or anybody else from selling firearm in the largest civilian firearms market in the world.

U.S. consumers last year purchased more firearms than the top 12 foreign military spending nations combined. Hard to argue with over 14 MILLION firearms sales in one year.

Any foreign company not seriously looking at entering the U.S. Civilian Market has zero business sense.

+1

Wait, it will come.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:32:42 PM EDT

[#14]

HK would never sell those rifles to the civilian market "because you suck, and we hate you"

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:33:40 PM EDT

[#15]

Unions?

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:36:05 PM EDT

[#16]

The cost equation.

Those banned imports were relatively cheap. Building them here would result in a considerably more expensive gun.

At the higher price, the market for said gun is much smaller. And, there is no 'this came from another country' mystique about a new production, USA-made gun.

CJ

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:38:48 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Yes, the import ban is about 21 years old.

However, you're forgetting that in 1994 we had an Assault Weapons ban that did not sunset until 2004. During the 2004 Presidential Election both candidates stated they would sign a new AWB into law should it ever cross their desk as President. I would say that gave certain foreign businesses a bit of apprehension about selling firearms that could quickly be banned in the United States. Now it would appear post Heller that the U.S. civilian market is an increasing more stable and secure market justifying investment.

I feel very confident that should McDonald v City of Chicago go our way (we know it will) than we'll see even more interest in foreign companies bringing product here to the United States of America.

Steyr is selling their A3 here in the United States of America. HK is going ahead with their 416. The Tavor was close to coming to our shores. Beretta is highly likely to bring in the AXR 160 and CZ is reported as confident that they'll be selling their new S805.

Yeah, I remember that pissed me off big time. To this day I will never defend the reputation of either Bush ex-presidents for their betrayals. They deserve everything negative that was said about them. But anyway, if some of these guns and other new guns are going to become available, I hope it happens before inflation gets too bad.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:41:42 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Steyr sells their AUG A3 here in the U.S. and right now you can pick one up for about $1,800.00. They are making a profit off their A3 sales and in fact just moved into a larger facility to handle U.S. sales, marketing, and support of their firearms here. They make their profit even with the cost of Austrian labor, shipping of Austrian made parts, cost of their U.S. Subcontractor Sabre Defense, and of course having to take dollars.

The Steyr A3 is affordable, dependable, and Steyr is happy and the U.S. owners of the A3 are happy.

If Steyr can do it so can every other gun company.

Sabre is producing the Aug for Steyr.

Posted: 4/17/2010 8:56:57 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
HK would never sell those rifles to the civilian market "because you suck, and we hate you"

Mere peasants aren't fit to buy Heckler und Jeckler guns anyway. True to form they really only want to sell to jackboot types, the Black Forest elves are major uniform queers.

In A World Of Compromise......Some Just Have Better Marketing Departments.

Posted: 4/17/2010 9:14:27 PM EDT

[#20]

Honestly, I'm surprised HK hasn't pushed further into the US market. Making the 416 was cool but then they went and screwed everything up with the mounting lugs. Why they decided to open up a copy of the AR-15 when everyone wants un-neutered G36s and UMPs is beyond me. Hell, I'd just like a nice MP5

Posted: 4/17/2010 9:22:53 PM EDT

[#21]

Oh dear lord, the amount of misinformation in here is mind boggling, HK does have a production line here now as they are tooling up to release the un-neutered MR556. One of the biggest things for HK would be the ability to sell a semi G36 here, of course a few might sell but they have to weigh the interest against the cost of tooling up to manufacture here.

I am sure if a lot of people bitched and moaned we may see a proper semi G36 instead of having to make them from cutting up SL8s. Also you need to look at contracts that they are trying to get, how many times has HK been shafted by our military? They have tooled up to build projects for the US mil quite a few times only to get thrown under a bus, first being with the MK23 SOCOM, then the XM8. I think HK is tip-toeing around with their civvy sales, and if it was left up to them every home in America would have an HK firearm in it.

Posted: 4/18/2010 1:13:16 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Steyr sells their AUG A3 here in the U.S. and right now you can pick one up for about $1,800.00. They are making a profit off their A3 sales and in fact just moved into a larger facility to handle U.S. sales, marketing, and support of their firearms here. They make their profit even with the cost of Austrian labor, shipping of Austrian made parts, cost of their U.S. Subcontractor Sabre Defense, and of course having to take dollars.

The Steyr A3 is affordable, dependable, and Steyr is happy and the U.S. owners of the A3 are happy.

If Steyr can do it so can every other gun company.

I'm pretty sure Steyr doesn't have an Aug factory here. They are made for them by somebody else.

Think of the cost of aquiring and tooling up a factory in the US just to sell a few thousand guns a year. How many Berretta AR90's would sell a year? Way under 10K.

Not cost effective. I bet the Steyr set up isn't making that much money. And you lose control. I don't see Beretta doing that and I really don't see H&K doing it.

Posted: 4/18/2010 1:44:52 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
FN has current contracts, correct?

And they are selling how many different models?

DOD is not preventing FN or HK or anybody else from selling firearm in the largest civilian firearms market in the world.

U.S. consumers last year purchased more firearms than the top 12 foreign military spending nations combined. Hard to argue with over 14 MILLION firearms sales in one year.

Any foreign company not seriously looking at entering the U.S. Civilian Market has zero business sense.

14,000,000 firearms sold in a year makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

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Posted: 4/18/2010 2:04:49 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Yep. If Chevy could build Corvettes and sell them at $20k, they could sell everyone, same thing with guns. Realistically how many units could you sell at a reasonable price? Figure in the capital costs to set up tooling, sales and marketing, training workers, etc etc etc. They can't even make money selling little red wagons these days.

Posted: 4/18/2010 2:52:00 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Oh dear lord, the amount of misinformation in here is mind boggling, HK does have a production line here now as they are tooling up to release the un-neutered MR556. One of the biggest things for HK would be the ability to sell a semi G36 here, of course a few might sell but they have to weigh the interest against the cost of tooling up to manufacture here.

I am sure if a lot of people bitched and moaned we may see a proper semi G36 instead of having to make them from cutting up SL8s. Also you need to look at contracts that they are trying to get, how many times has HK been shafted by our military? They have tooled up to build projects for the US mil quite a few times only to get thrown under a bus, first being with the MK23 SOCOM, then the XM8. I think HK is tip-toeing around with their civvy sales, and if it was left up to them every home in America would have an HK firearm in it.

This is EXACTLY why HK should MAN THE FUCK UP and start selling battle rifles to the US civilian population. They've been trying FOR FUCKING YEARS to get these military contracts that FUCKING EVAPORATE BEFORE THEIR EYES. THEY ARE NOT––-going to get a contract for a main battle rifle. THEY ARE NOT––-getting the contract for major police departments. So...FUCKING SELL TO CIVILIANS. Is their fucking marketing department retarded? 15 years of "tiptoeing" to get shafted during EVERY STAGE of the trials? Millions upon millions wasted––-to get what? Wow...we get to build the new "SAW" or the new "40mm GL"––-fuck that shit. There's no fucking money in it. They ARE A FUCKING WEAPONS COMPANY. Their JOB IS TO SELL FUCKING WEAPONS AND DESIGN BETTER WEAPONS FOR THE FUTURE TO SELL. Not play fucking retarded politics with government agencies on the HOPE that they MIGHT get a chance to sell their guns to an army unit or police agency. FUCK THAT SHIT...they're dumb and they fucking deserve it.

Posted: 4/18/2010 3:00:03 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Look how long it took JLD Enterprises to make the PTR-91 (and make it profitable), and they had original HK tooling to boot.

You had jokers like Toad Baily making guns (how many people have spent ass-loads of money trying to get a "Spushul Wepen" to work right).

The AR market didn't really explode until AFTER the end of the ban.

Money, money and more money.

No kidding. I had to send my SW-52 back for his "X" upgrade because he fubared it from the get go. Feed and ejection issues were the main problems which he solved with a modified receiver and upgrades to the ejector and spring. It's still picky about which mags it likes because the feed issues will still happen if there is any play. That solved itself with the Polish synthetics but other than that, it runs like a champ. It just took a couple of years to get it that way.

As far as HK releasing their modern firearms, well they do but they sometimes require some much needed work to actually look the part.

Posted: 4/18/2010 3:01:07 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Oh dear lord, the amount of misinformation in here is mind boggling, HK does have a production line here now as they are tooling up to release the un-neutered MR556. One of the biggest things for HK would be the ability to sell a semi G36 here, of course a few might sell but they have to weigh the interest against the cost of tooling up to manufacture here.

I am sure if a lot of people bitched and moaned we may see a proper semi G36 instead of having to make them from cutting up SL8s. Also you need to look at contracts that they are trying to get, how many times has HK been shafted by our military? They have tooled up to build projects for the US mil quite a few times only to get thrown under a bus, first being with the MK23 SOCOM, then the XM8. I think HK is tip-toeing around with their civvy sales, and if it was left up to them every home in America would have an HK firearm in it.

This is EXACTLY why HK should MAN THE FUCK UP and start selling battle rifles to the US civilian population. They've been trying FOR FUCKING YEARS to get these military contracts that FUCKING EVAPORATE BEFORE THEIR EYES. THEY ARE NOT––-going to get a contract for a main battle rifle. THEY ARE NOT––-getting the contract for major police departments. So...FUCKING SELL TO CIVILIANS. Is their fucking marketing department retarded? 15 years of "tiptoeing" to get shafted during EVERY STAGE of the trials? Millions upon millions wasted––-to get what? Wow...we get to build the new "SAW" or the new "40mm GL"––-fuck that shit. There's no fucking money in it. They ARE A FUCKING WEAPONS COMPANY. Their JOB IS TO SELL FUCKING WEAPONS AND DESIGN BETTER WEAPONS FOR THE FUTURE TO SELL. Not play fucking retarded politics with government agencies on the HOPE that they MIGHT get a chance to sell their guns to an army unit or police agency. FUCK THAT SHIT...they're dumb and they fucking deserve it.

10/10

Fucking brilliant, and couldn't be said better. I for one would love to have many of their standard lineup.

Posted: 4/19/2010 9:20:58 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Oh dear lord, the amount of misinformation in here is mind boggling, HK does have a production line here now as they are tooling up to release the un-neutered MR556. One of the biggest things for HK would be the ability to sell a semi G36 here, of course a few might sell but they have to weigh the interest against the cost of tooling up to manufacture here.

I am sure if a lot of people bitched and moaned we may see a proper semi G36 instead of having to make them from cutting up SL8s. Also you need to look at contracts that they are trying to get, how many times has HK been shafted by our military? They have tooled up to build projects for the US mil quite a few times only to get thrown under a bus, first being with the MK23 SOCOM, then the XM8. I think HK is tip-toeing around with their civvy sales, and if it was left up to them every home in America would have an HK firearm in it.

This is EXACTLY why HK should MAN THE FUCK UP and start selling battle rifles to the US civilian population. They've been trying FOR FUCKING YEARS to get these military contracts that FUCKING EVAPORATE BEFORE THEIR EYES. THEY ARE NOT––-going to get a contract for a main battle rifle. THEY ARE NOT––-getting the contract for major police departments. So...FUCKING SELL TO CIVILIANS. Is their fucking marketing department retarded? 15 years of "tiptoeing" to get shafted during EVERY STAGE of the trials? Millions upon millions wasted––-to get what? Wow...we get to build the new "SAW" or the new "40mm GL"––-fuck that shit. There's no fucking money in it. They ARE A FUCKING WEAPONS COMPANY. Their JOB IS TO SELL FUCKING WEAPONS AND DESIGN BETTER WEAPONS FOR THE FUTURE TO SELL. Not play fucking retarded politics with government agencies on the HOPE that they MIGHT get a chance to sell their guns to an army unit or police agency. FUCK THAT SHIT...they're dumb and they fucking deserve it.

Funny, but Heckler and Koch is the main provider of submachine guns to most law enforcement agencies in the United States, including major agencies. And while they aren't as strong in the sidearm market as Glock or Smith and Wesson, there are more than a few agencies that either allow for, or issue, HK handguns as duty weapons. They also have the contract for MP-5s for the U.S. Military.

Then there are sales to foreign governments and private entities who have their own armed security groups.

While the U.S. commercial market is lucrative and offers promise of nice profits, Heckler and Koch seems to do well enough that they don't feel the need to return to that market in a big way. And once again taking the risk of navigating our fickle political climate regarding firearms. Once bitten, twice shy.

HK might do it if things continue to go well in keeping gun control on a very low priority basis for the Left. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Posted: 4/19/2010 9:26:01 AM EDT

[#29]

HK, because you suck and we hate you.

Posted: 4/19/2010 2:33:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Cerberus.
They see all, know all, controll all weapons production.
"You have the right to buy our products. Shooters who refuse will be liquidated,,,,'

Posted: 4/19/2010 2:35:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Imagine putting tons of $$$$ into a production facility hiring and training people then the

gov't undoes the ban.

Posted: 4/19/2010 2:40:40 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
HK, because you suck and we hate you.

This.

HK will tell you what you want to buy.

Posted: 4/19/2010 2:42:49 PM EDT

[#33]


Sir,

The MR556 which is just like the HK416 will be delivered to dealers in
Sept. This information was released to the public at the 2010 Shot Show.
The MR762 with is just like the HK417 will be delivered to dealers 1st qtr
2011.  We are looking out for the civilian public and wanted to have these
rifles out quicker.  However due to some ATF issues the release date was
delayed.


HK Customer Service

News of interest!

CJ

Posted: 4/19/2010 2:52:51 PM EDT

[#34]

Everybody out there is trying to hodge podge pistons into AR's, all they had to do was make Daewoo's DR-200. I just got an SR556 and I love it, but that Daewoo is best AK/AR hybrid to date in my opinion.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 4/19/2010 2:53:24 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

FN has current contracts, correct?

And they are selling how many different models?

DOD is not preventing FN or HK or anybody else from selling firearm in the largest civilian firearms market in the world.

U.S. consumers last year purchased more firearms than the top 12 foreign
military spending nations combined. Hard to argue with over 14 MILLION
firearms sales in one year.

Any foreign company not seriously looking at entering the U.S. Civilian Market has zero business sense.

That brought a smile to my face.

Posted: 4/19/2010 3:46:52 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Sir,The MR556 which is just like the HK416 will be delivered to dealers inSept. This information was released to the public at the 2010 Shot Show.The MR762 with is just like the HK417 will be delivered to dealers 1st qtr2011. We are looking out for the civilian public and wanted to have theserifles out quicker. However due to some ATF issues the release date wasdelayed.HK Customer Service

News of interest!

CJ

I'll be interested when they announce a semi-only G36. If they can keep the price below the SCAR and ACR (which shouldn't be very hard), they could sell a shitload. Especially with magwells that take STANAG mags and Pmags.

EDIT: WTF did you do to my post, CJ?!

Posted: 4/19/2010 3:49:51 PM EDT

[#37]

Absolutely nothing. I didn't even quote anybody. That came from one of my own emails, sent to me from HK.

CJ

Posted: 4/19/2010 3:51:52 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Demand
Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Steyr sells their AUG A3 here in the U.S. and right now you can pick one up for about $1,800.00. They are making a profit off their A3 sales and in fact just moved into a larger facility to handle U.S. sales, marketing, and support of their firearms here. They make their profit even with the cost of Austrian labor, shipping of Austrian made parts, cost of their U.S. Subcontractor Sabre Defense, and of course having to take dollars.
The Steyr A3 is affordable, dependable, and Steyr is happy and the U.S. owners of the A3 are happy.
If Steyr can do it so can every other gun company.

I'm pretty sure Steyr doesn't have an Aug factory here. They are made for them by somebody else.
Think of the cost of aquiring and tooling up a factory in the US just to sell a few thousand guns a year. How many Berretta AR90's would sell a year? Way under 10K.
Not cost effective. I bet the Steyr set up isn't making that much money. And you lose control. I don't see Beretta doing that and I really don't see H&K doing it.

Did you not read the part about the Sabre Defense subcontractor? Read again.
Yes, Sabre Defense makes the barrel, receiver, and 922r parts here. However, Steyr imports the other parts from Austria and assembles the rifles. They also brought in a lot of their own tooling to help Sabre build their compliance parts.
They didn't lose control of a damn thing. They didn't loose anymore control than any company that uses a subcontractor would "loose control."
If Steyr isn't making money off the deal than why did they just move into a larger facility? Why is Steyr investing even more money into Steyr Arms here in the USA? Why is Steyr bringing in new accessories for the Steyr AUG A3? Answer me that one.
Man...don't tell me about what Steyr is and isn't doing unless you actually have a clue what you're talking about. I follow the A3 and all of Steyrs firearms very carefully and on a daily basis.
Also know this that Beretta and HK subcontract parts all the time in Europe just like every other company does. Whether it's magazines or whatever believe me HK and Beretta have used subcontractors at some point during the years. It would be nothing new for them to use subcontractors here in the US to make their compliance parts and like Steyr they're more than capable of keeping "control" of their final product. A lot of the parts can be made in Europe and imported. There is no need for a company to set-up a entire shop right off the bat to produce one type of firearm. A lot of their tooling can be imported from overseas as well. The U.S. has an import ban, but many other nations do not have import bans.

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:09:19 PM EDT

[#39]

The HK bashing gets old too.

It's not HK's fault that Bush 41 banned their firearms from import into the U.S. and it's not HK's fault that in 94 the Democrats passed the AWB, which didn't sunset until 2004.

HK is going to bring in the MR556, it's coming.

The CZ S805 is coming as soon as its gets through R&D.

The Beretta ARX160 is a serious possibility.

The IWI Tavor probably would have been here by the end of 2010 if CD didn't go out of business. I'm sure someone will make it happen.

Hell even the Polish MSBS might end up over here according to a European guy who is definitely in "the know" over at militaryphotos.net.

These things take time and Rome wasn't built in a day folks.

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:10:54 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

$$$$$

this

it is expensive and people bitch when stuff costs more than 1K

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:17:01 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

FN has current contracts, correct?

And they are selling how many different models?

DOD is not preventing FN or HK or anybody else from selling firearm in the largest civilian firearms market in the world.

U.S. consumers last year purchased more firearms than the top 12 foreign military spending nations combined. Hard to argue with over 14 MILLION firearms sales in one year.

Any foreign company not seriously looking at entering the U.S. Civilian Market has zero business sense.

That brought a smile to my face.

In the first three months of 2010 there have been already 3,662,540 NICS background checks for folks purchasing firearms. That's in the middle of a recession and high unemployment.

Since they started performing background checks through NICS in November of 1998 there have been 113,680,372. When you account for the firearms sold before 1998 there are most likely enough firearms in the U.S. to arm every single man, woman, and child.

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:30:05 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

Steyr sells their AUG A3 here in the U.S. and right now you can pick one up for about $1,800.00. They are making a profit off their A3 sales and in fact just moved into a larger facility to handle U.S. sales, marketing, and support of their firearms here. They make their profit even with the cost of Austrian labor, shipping of Austrian made parts, cost of their U.S. Subcontractor Sabre Defense, and of course having to take dollars.

The Steyr A3 is affordable, dependable, and Steyr is happy and the U.S. owners of the A3 are happy.

If Steyr can do it so can every other gun company.

I'm pretty sure Steyr doesn't have an Aug factory here. They are made for them by somebody else.

Think of the cost of aquiring and tooling up a factory in the US just to sell a few thousand guns a year. How many Berretta AR90's would sell a year? Way under 10K.

Not cost effective. I bet the Steyr set up isn't making that much money. And you lose control. I don't see Beretta doing that and I really don't see H&K doing it.

Did you not read the part about the Sabre Defense subcontractor? Read again.

Yes, Sabre Defense makes the barrel, receiver, and 922r parts here. However, Steyr imports the other parts from Austria and assembles the rifles. They also brought in a lot of their own tooling to help Sabre build their compliance parts.

They didn't lose control of a damn thing. They didn't loose anymore control than any company that uses a subcontractor would "loose control."

If Steyr isn't making money off the deal than why did they just move into a larger facility? Why is Steyr investing even more money into Steyr Arms here in the USA? Why is Steyr bringing in new accessories for the Steyr AUG A3? Answer me that one.

Man...don't tell me about what Steyr is and isn't doing unless you actually have a clue what you're talking about. I follow the A3 and all of Steyrs firearms very carefully and on a daily basis.

Also know this that Beretta and HK subcontract parts all the time in Europe just like every other company does. Whether it's magazines or whatever believe me HK and Beretta have used subcontractors at some point during the years. It would be nothing new for them to use subcontractors here in the US to make their compliance parts and like Steyr they're more than capable of keeping "control" of their final product. A lot of the parts can be made in Europe and imported. There is no need for a company to set-up a entire shop right off the bat to produce one type of firearm. A lot of their tooling can be imported from overseas as well. The U.S. has an import ban, but many other nations do not have import bans.

So they do NOT have a Steyr owned factory here and use a company that is not owned by them to make parts and assemble the final firearm.

Check.

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:37:21 PM EDT

[#43]

Everyone says they want one and says they would buy one, but turn around and go apeshit about the $2000 price tag. There is a limited market for those guns. How many AUGs do you see getting sold? Now divide that by the number of manufacturers that could bring a product like that to market. These are big names too. They can't just half ass it like you can with an AK. If there was money to be made they would do it. Or will, butits not looking good. More likely to see new products than retreads.

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:40:14 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Demand

Yes, they would buy them. But not for the price that it would take to make them profitable.

If they would temper their expectations a little bit they might be able to make a little money in volume. CZ estimated their pricing in the high teens/low 2's for theS805 after the SCAR came out. Everyone <cough>Bushmaster<cough> drank the SCAR money and thinks their shit is also capable of selling for a metric assload of dollars just because they threw their hat in the Modular Piston Driven Carbine market.

No CZ rifle will ever be worth that kind of scratch to me.

Posted: 4/19/2010 4:41:34 PM EDT

[#45]

HK-94

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 21 years later, why don't we have domestic production of more banned import guns?

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