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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:18:17 PM EDT
[#1]
that is why they are conservatives and not liberals. i believe you wish they were libertarians.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:18:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:19:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. This for me too. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:22:12 PM EDT
[#4]
I do not like conservative values. But I absolutely DESPISE liberal values.
They both restrict freedom but in different ways. Liberal values just seem much more destructive to human nature. I'll never vote for a liberal over a conservative. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:22:19 PM EDT
[#5]
That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:22:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Most say they want a small gov and wish to protect rights. What they mean is they want to shrink their least favorite parts of the gov, and only defends their favorite rights. So in short, most are hypocrites.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:24:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
For me, it seems to be that conservatives seem to be totally intolerant of anybody that disagrees with them - most especially, people who are also conservative, *but not conservative enough.* Yours? Seems to be a criticism of people in general. "Not liberal enough" "Too Liberal" "Not conservative enough" "Too Conservative" For me, using the classical sense of the term, the biggest criticism would be that conservatives, by definition, work to keep things the same. Conservatives in the military after the Civil War didn't see a reason why US troops should be equipped with multi-shot rifles, those same rifles would have been a marked step forward as Custer found out when the arrogant SOB took his little force up against Natives who were equipped with repeaters. Politically, they halt progress by protesting things that go against their given religion, gay marriage legalization and the teaching of evolution/big bang in school. It is against a true Conservative's nature to be dynamic and adaptive. If all we had were conservatives we would still be having Inquisitions and thinking the Earth was the center of the Universe. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:26:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. This for me too. This, as well. Christianity/Conservatism are not reliant on each other. Being told I'm a Liberal because I'm an atheist doesn't make any sense when my political views are the exact same otherwise. It's very off-putting. I'm a HUGE advocate of Religious freedom, and I certainly don't want anyone being told what they can and can't do in regards to worship... but the idea that some people want Government involvement in their religious practices and institutions just boggles my mind. Keep them separate, to keep them safe. The only other thing I can think of, is the idea that there is a difference between Socially and Economically Conservative. To me the ideals are the same. The idea that the Government should be banning say for instance Marijuana doesn't seem "Socially Conservative" to me - it seems pretty damn Liberal considering it's advocacy of the Government making personal health/welfare choices for you. This is not limited only to drugs, obviously. (This isn't me trying to lead into a drug thread, so stop it right here).
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:26:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ??? 
What are they then? |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:28:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
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For me, it seems to be that conservatives seem to be totally intolerant of anybody that disagrees with them - most especially, people who are also conservative, *but not conservative enough.* Yours? Seems to be a criticism of people in general. "Not liberal enough" "Too Liberal" "Not conservative enough" "Too Conservative" For me, using the classical sense of the term, the biggest criticism would be that conservatives, by definition, work to keep things the same. Conservatives in the military after the Civil War didn't see a reason why US troops should be equipped with multi-shot rifles, those same rifles would have been a marked step forward as Custer found out when the arrogant SOB took his little force up against Natives who were equipped with repeaters. Politically, they halt progress by protesting things that go against their given religion, gay marriage legalization and the teaching of evolution/big bang in school. It is against a true Conservative's nature to be dynamic and adaptive. If all we had were conservatives we would still be having Inquisitions and thinking the Earth was the center of the Universe. "True Liberals" would have us in Ancient Rome (which would be a bit like Spartacus with IPOD nanos ) |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:28:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Most say they want a small gov and wish to protect rights. What they mean is they want to shrink their least favorite parts of the gov, and only defends their favorite rights. So in short, most are hypocrites. It what makes a politician. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:29:16 PM EDT
[#12]
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less) 
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:29:47 PM EDT
[#13]
I think it's kind of the whole believing only in your kind of freedom. Both Liberals and Conservatives want to restrict some freedoms, the only freedom they believe in is their own. But I only speak for myself here and know there are exceptions on both sides.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:30:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. +1 Agree |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:31:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
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Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. +1 Agree arfcomers for choice ... 
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:32:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Most say they want a small gov and wish to protect rights. What they mean is they want to shrink their least favorite parts of the gov, and only defends their favorite rights. So in short, most are hypocrites. It what makes a politician. My criticism extends past pols. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:32:45 PM EDT
[#17]
'No compassion'
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:33:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
'No compassion' = Choice 
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:34:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:34:56 PM EDT
[#20]
One thing I have learned from my time on Arfcom, is that there is a difference between US conservatives, and Australian conservatives. We have a larger dose of pragmatism, and far less attachment with religion.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:37:21 PM EDT
[#21]
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For me, it seems to be that conservatives seem to be totally intolerant of anybody that disagrees with them - most especially, people who are also conservative, *but not conservative enough.* Yours? Seems to be a criticism of people in general. "Not liberal enough" "Too Liberal" "Not conservative enough" "Too Conservative" For me, using the classical sense of the term, the biggest criticism would be that conservatives, by definition, work to keep things the same. Conservatives in the military after the Civil War didn't see a reason why US troops should be equipped with multi-shot rifles, those same rifles would have been a marked step forward as Custer found out when the arrogant SOB took his little force up against Natives who were equipped with repeaters. Politically, they halt progress by protesting things that go against their given religion, gay marriage legalization and the teaching of evolution/big bang in school. It is against a true Conservative's nature to be dynamic and adaptive. If all we had were conservatives we would still be having Inquisitions and thinking the Earth was the center of the Universe. "True Liberals" would have us in Ancient Rome (which would be a bit like Spartacus with IPOD nanos ) How so? I am thinking of Galileo v RCC or Republic v Monarchy/Aristocracy. Both liberal ideas that we hold as truth now. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:37:54 PM EDT
[#22]
I think your criticism of conservatives fits much better for liberals.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:38:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. As one who made a very good living & Retired at 38 (Now 50) working with tools I have never considered Firearms tools . |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:41:06 PM EDT
[#24]
They don't do a good job of getting their message out and they are too willing to compromise on what should be core principles that everyone agrees on, like not spending money like drunken sailors.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:41:28 PM EDT
[#25]
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. As one who made a very good living & Retired at 38 (Now 50) working with tools I have never considered Firearms tools . What is a tool to you? To me it is something that is used to make a task easier that is not part of a person(or animal's) being. A gun is an extension of ancient tools used for hunting/protection. The pointy stick was a tool, so was the pointy stick with a sharp rock on the end, then so too the bow and arrow and by extension so too the firearm. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:42:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. Pushy bible thumpers, especially the kind that push for legislation. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:46:57 PM EDT
[#27]
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Most say they want a small gov and wish to protect rights. What they mean is they want to shrink their least favorite parts of the gov, and only defends their favorite rights. So in short, most are hypocrites. It what makes a politician. My criticism extends past pols. Pretty much my biggest problem too. It's certainly not universally true but there's a lot of it in conservative circles. The average Conservative wants to eliminate the parts of government he doesn't plan to use and protect the freedoms he does and to hell with everything else. I can respect people with a fairly wide range of political philosophies if they can articulate a rational argument for what they intend to impose on their fellows, but when it's just self interest or worse simple bigotry...well there's a lot of allies and a lot of enemies claiming to be conservatives. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:49:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. As one who made a very good living & Retired at 38 (Now 50) working with tools I have never considered Firearms tools . What is a tool to you? To me it is something that is used to make a task easier that is not part of a person(or animal's) being. A gun is an extension of ancient tools used for hunting/protection. The pointy stick was a tool, so was the pointy stick with a sharp rock on the end, then so too the bow and arrow and by extension so too the firearm. I consider a Firearm Art (like a Guitar is to a collector who does not play ) or a vintage Motorbike to a person who does not ride, or pool is to a homeowner who does not swim and a firearms value or Importance does not elevate it to the creative level of tools (Especially since not only can tools make other tools but tools can make firearms ,but Firearms can only be used to take tools from someone else. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:50:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
They don't do a good job of getting their message out and they are too willing to compromise on what should be core principles that everyone agrees on, like not spending money like drunken sailors. Hopefully speaker Pelosi taught them the much needed lessons of how not to compromise and how to deal with those with insufficient power. I hope the next Republican SOH goes boot-to-throat immediately and never gives the tards a chance to catch their breath. Since the GOP is more likely to adhere to basic common sense, I doubt the final push/followthrough with high profile legislation will fail. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:51:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
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Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. Pushy bible thumpers, especially the kind that push for legislation. Like open carry & RTKBA & 2A protections or going after Important Rights like Gay Marrage & Choice ? |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:51:24 PM EDT
[#31]
They won't shut the fuck up about Jesus and what is "morally right".
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:51:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Most say they want a small gov and wish to protect rights. What they mean is they want to shrink their least favorite parts of the gov, and only defends their favorite rights. So in short, most are hypocrites. It what makes a politician. My criticism extends past pols. Pretty much my biggest problem too. It's certainly not universally true but there's a lot of it in conservative circles. The average Conservative wants to eliminate the parts of government he doesn't plan to use and protect the freedoms he does and to hell with everything else. I can respect people with a fairly wide range of political philosophies if they can articulate a rational argument for what they intend to impose on their fellows, but when it's just self interest or worse simple bigotry...well there's a lot of allies and a lot of enemies claiming to be conservatives. Yep. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:52:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: For me, it seems to be that conservatives seem to be totally intolerant of anybody that disagrees with them - most especially, people who are also conservative, *but not conservative enough.* Yours? What are you some kind of commie? |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:53:29 PM EDT
[#34]
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. As one who made a very good living & Retired at 38 (Now 50) working with tools I have never considered Firearms tools . What is a tool to you? To me it is something that is used to make a task easier that is not part of a person(or animal's) being. A gun is an extension of ancient tools used for hunting/protection. The pointy stick was a tool, so was the pointy stick with a sharp rock on the end, then so too the bow and arrow and by extension so too the firearm. I consider a Firearm Art (like a Guitar is to a collector who does not play ) or a vintage Motorbike to a person who does not ride, or pool is to a homeowner who does not swim and a firearms value or Importance does not elevate it to the creative level of tools (Especially since not only can tools make other tools but tools can make firearms ,but Firearms can only be used to take tools from someone else. Is dynamite a tool? Seems to fall into the same category. Something inanimate that is used by a living thing- might be a better definition. Never thought of the tools only to make other tools. Many people consider tools art. Ever sat and looked at a polished, new Snap-on wrench? Art when you take the time. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:56:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. Me to. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:56:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. I'll go along with this. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:56:49 PM EDT
[#37]
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. As one who made a very good living & Retired at 38 (Now 50) working with tools I have never considered Firearms tools . What is a tool to you? To me it is something that is used to make a task easier that is not part of a person(or animal's) being. A gun is an extension of ancient tools used for hunting/protection. The pointy stick was a tool, so was the pointy stick with a sharp rock on the end, then so too the bow and arrow and by extension so too the firearm. I consider a Firearm Art (like a Guitar is to a collector who does not play ) or a vintage Motorbike to a person who does not ride, or pool is to a homeowner who does not swim and a firearms value or Importance does not elevate it to the creative level of tools (Especially since not only can tools make other tools but tools can make firearms ,but Firearms can only be used to take tools from someone else. Is dynamite a tool? Seems to fall into the same category. Something inanimate that is used by a living thing- might be a better definition. Never thought of the tools only to make other tools. Many people consider tools art. Ever sat and looked at a polished, new Snap-on wrench? Art when you take the time. Tools have not been art for 75 years. but hey I consider a Gretch Viking or a 49 Fender Broadcaster art so hey if you think there is art in a NASCAR teams rollaway ,art is in the eye of the beholder. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:56:53 PM EDT
[#38]
I've nearly posted in this thread 10 times, but every time I think of something, the liberals are just as guilty of the same thing except it's from the opposite point of view.
One thing that I'd say though, is activism. The Tea Party is a good start, but the silence of the majority (conservatives) over the years is really taking its toll now. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 9:58:42 PM EDT
[#39]
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Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. Pushy bible thumpers, especially the kind that push for legislation. Like open carry & RTKBA & 2A protections or going after Important Rights like Gay Marrage & Choice ? I doubt you will get much opposition from the rest of the big tent about that. Why do you care if medical choices, rights to property, and all the other stuff that comes with marriage is given to gays? Marriage to the state is a different thing than marriage to the church. Guaranteed to be a political landmine and will certainly cost election wins, regardless of what you or I think. If you were to leave it strictly to funding it might not be as touchy a subject but Christians will not leave it at that. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:00:19 PM EDT
[#40]
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They won't shut the fuck up about Jesus and what is "morally right". But the Moslems, yer cool wit dat . |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:01:39 PM EDT
[#41]
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That they(conservatives) are soooo tolerant of Left Leaning & Middle left Democrat leghumpers who think firearms are tools & and a hobby. ???
What are they then? An extension of our being (no less)
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE guns. I think we should be able to have whatever we want without big brother looking over our shoulder. But to me they are just tools. Though if you look at older perceptions of those who did battle, take the Samurai for instance, the sword, bow, and eventually the rifle, were extensions of themselves. But what it boils down to is how you define "our being", is it what you see when you look down or look into a mirror? or is it what is doing the looking? To the later even the body is just a tool. To the former the body is itself part of being. As one who made a very good living & Retired at 38 (Now 50) working with tools I have never considered Firearms tools . What is a tool to you? To me it is something that is used to make a task easier that is not part of a person(or animal's) being. A gun is an extension of ancient tools used for hunting/protection. The pointy stick was a tool, so was the pointy stick with a sharp rock on the end, then so too the bow and arrow and by extension so too the firearm. I consider a Firearm Art (like a Guitar is to a collector who does not play ) or a vintage Motorbike to a person who does not ride, or pool is to a homeowner who does not swim and a firearms value or Importance does not elevate it to the creative level of tools (Especially since not only can tools make other tools but tools can make firearms ,but Firearms can only be used to take tools from someone else. Is dynamite a tool? Seems to fall into the same category. Something inanimate that is used by a living thing- might be a better definition. Never thought of the tools only to make other tools. Many people consider tools art. Ever sat and looked at a polished, new Snap-on wrench? Art when you take the time. Tools have not been art for 75 years. but hey I consider a Gretch Viking or a 49 Fender Broadcaster art so hey if you think there is art in a NASCAR teams rollaway ,art is in the eye of the beholder. I guess we can concur that tools would be the same. If you use 'em they're tools, if you look at 'em (and like it) they're art. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:03:17 PM EDT
[#42]
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They won't shut the fuck up about Jesus and what is "morally right". But the Moslems, yer cool wit dat . look, don't beat around the bush. just come right out and say what you really mean: if you don't support bible study in school, you're plotting to fly airplanes into public buildings. 
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:04:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Conservatives bringing up religion wouldn't be such a bad thing if so many of them weren't such hypocritical asshats with all sorts of sins themselves. Stop preaching, you're not Jesus.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:05:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Stupid question really, but does everyone consider Islamic Terrorists to be liberal or conservative?
And how does this relate to our meaning of the terms? ETA; FFFUUU!!! Wasted post 762 on this!!! |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:07:17 PM EDT
[#45]
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Stupid question really, but does everyone consider Islamic Terrorists to be liberal or conservative? And how does this relate to our meaning of the terms? ETA; FFFUUU!!! Wasted post 762 on this!!! Conservative has a couple sub-categories. One of them being religion... the argument could be made that Muslims could fit into the 'religious conservative' group. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:09:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Stupid question really, but does everyone consider Islamic Terrorists to be liberal or conservative? And how does this relate to our meaning of the terms? ETA; FFFUUU!!! Wasted post 762 on this!!! Conservative has a couple sub-categories. One of them being religion... the argument could be made that Muslims could fit into the 'religious conservative' group. He didn't say Muslims. He said Islamic Terrorists. Which, are NOT part of our political spectrum. They fall into the "enemy extremists" category.
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:10:03 PM EDT
[#47]
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Stupid question really, but does everyone consider Islamic Terrorists to be liberal or conservative? And how does this relate to our meaning of the terms? ETA; FFFUUU!!! Wasted post 762 on this!!! Conservative has a couple sub-categories. One of them being religion... the argument could be made that Muslims could fit into the 'religious conservative' group. He didn't say Muslims. He said Islamic Terrorists. Which, are NOT part of our political spectrum. They fall into the "enemy extremists" category. I know what he said. I was making an extension to his question. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:10:07 PM EDT
[#48]
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Too much bible thumping. Conservative doesn't equate to "the religious right", though many liberals lump them together. |
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:12:38 PM EDT
[#49]
That so many of them wasted their lives fighting Nazism & Communism ?
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Posted: 3/17/2010 10:16:22 PM EDT
[#50]
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Stupid question really, but does everyone consider Islamic Terrorists to be liberal or conservative? And how does this relate to our meaning of the terms? ETA; FFFUUU!!! Wasted post 762 on this!!! Conservative has a couple sub-categories. One of them being religion... the argument could be made that Muslims could fit into the 'religious conservative' group. I would say we need to separate our politico/religious terms a bit. Rightwing- Religious right, Leftwing- Anti-religious(or separate from religious) left, Libertarian- less govt, Statist- more government. So someone would fit two categories. Islamic Extremists would be Rightwing Statists by this definition but so would someone like Mike Huckabee who believes the government can tax people into better eating habits but is religious and openly so. ETA highlights for emphasis. ETA2 though Huckabee is far less extreme. |
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