Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 3/6/2010 9:32:15 AM EDT
No, I won't post a link.

This is the first time I have ever seen someone do this.  A seller has something posted for a VERY good price in the EE.  Predictably several people line up with "I'll take it" and "Next if it falls through".  

Then someone comes along and with a post offering more than the seller was asking to try and undercut the previous posters.  

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:35:47 AM EDT
[#1]

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:36:26 AM EDT
[#2]


Do you know how I know you are gay?  
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:36:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
No, I won't post a link.

This is the first time I have ever seen someone do this.  A seller has something posted for a VERY good price in the EE.  Predictably several people line up with "I'll take it" and "Next if it falls through".  

Then someone comes along and with a post offering more than the seller was asking to try and undercut the previous posters.  



dude that sucks
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:37:02 AM EDT
[#4]
If I were the seller, I'd still make the deal with the first "I'll take it" that was posted. The EE is not an auction.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:37:55 AM EDT
[#5]
If the seller is honest he'll take the first offer that makes his wanted price. This aint gunbroker.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:38:13 AM EDT
[#6]
i just sold something  for a really good price wish thata happened for me. but i also like my flawless feedback so i woulda sold to first ill take it
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:39:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Fuckin A...really?

Sorry to see this packinheavy...maybe take it up with an EE mod?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:41:05 AM EDT
[#8]
If the seller actually sold it to the "High bidder" as opposed to the first i'll take it, then he needs a "Timeout".  The EE is "Not" an auction
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:41:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Oh, it wasn't me and I am sure the seller will do the right thing.  I just had never seen anyone do something like that in the EE.  You would think they would just try it by IMing the person and not posting it for the whole world to see.

It is screwed up no matter how they try it though.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:41:37 AM EDT
[#10]
I would sell to the first offer of purchase, but then again, this country is built on capitalism.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:42:55 AM EDT
[#11]
While the EE isn't an auction, EE sellers retain the right to sell their stuff to whomever they please. If somebody comes along and offers more, BEFORE the seller has made a deal, I say he's got a right to sell it to that guy.



There is no rule that I'm aware of, that requires the seller to make a deal with the first guy who posts (or IM's) "I'll take it".
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:44:38 AM EDT
[#12]



Quoted:


If the seller actually sold it to the "High bidder" as opposed to the first i'll take it, then he needs a "Timeout".  The EE is "Not" an auction


I disagree. The only way he deserves a timeout, is if he made a deal with the first "I'll take it", then rescinded it when a better offer came along.



If he didn't welch on a deal, he's GTG in my book. And I suspect the EE mods see it the same way.



 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:49:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
While the EE isn't an auction, EE sellers retain the right to sell their stuff to whomever they please. If somebody comes along and offers more, BEFORE the seller has made a deal, I say he's got a right to sell it to that guy.

There is no rule that I'm aware of, that requires the seller to make a deal with the first guy who posts (or IM's) "I'll take it".


I agree..

Though it might seem lame, "I'll take it" means nothing until the buyer agrees

I always check feedback, join date and membership level when responding to potential buyers, so I don't get robbed by a scammer
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 9:50:05 AM EDT
[#14]
I don't believe there is an obligation to sell to the first "I'll take it". What if the first "I'll take it" has a lousy feed back record and the second "I'll take it" has a golden record?  I also agree with Subnet. If no deal was made, the seller can/should choose any offer he wishes.

Whenever I list an item, feel free to offer more than I'm asking. Please though, be discrete.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:04:38 AM EDT
[#15]



Quoted:


While the EE isn't an auction, EE sellers retain the right to sell their stuff to whomever they please. If somebody comes along and offers more, BEFORE the seller has made a deal, I say he's got a right to sell it to that guy.



There is no rule that I'm aware of, that requires the seller to make a deal with the first guy who posts (or IM's) "I'll take it".


And there's nothing saying that the seller cannot treat the EE as an auction.



Want the item? "Bid" more than the guy that offered the higher price.



 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:19:51 AM EDT
[#16]
As long as the seller didn't post "first I'll take it wins" then all offers are on the table and, IMO, the seller would be a fool to take the first one if it's not the best one.



Capitalism not socialism.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:22:41 AM EDT
[#17]
tagged for mod answer
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:22:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Why shouldn't the seller be allowed to act in his best interest and take the offer that maximizes his gains?

Are you saying that arbitrary rules from a central authority are needed to keep the market 'fair'?
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:25:12 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
As long as the seller didn't post "first I'll take it wins" then all offers are on the table and, IMO, the seller would be a fool to take the first one if it's not the best one.

Capitalism not socialism.


As with everything else around here (from property rights to cheating wives), capitalism is only good when it works in your favor.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:25:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
If I were the seller, I'd still make the deal with the first "I'll take it" that was posted. The EE is not an auction.


I agree.  During the height of the scare, I was selling off some stuff to fund other projects.  I priced most of my ammo well below the going rate at the time, because I wasn't looking to be accused of "price gouging" and wanted to make a quick sale.  It seemed that several times I had quite a few potential buyers all trying to get in really quick and a few times the 3rd and 4th guys in line did try to offer me more.  I didn't think taking their offers would be ethical even though some of them came within seconds of each other.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:27:33 AM EDT
[#21]
post a link!
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:29:03 AM EDT
[#22]



Quoted:


No, I won't post a link.



This is the first time I have ever seen someone do this.  A seller has something posted for a VERY good price in the EE.  Predictably several people line up with "I'll take it" and "Next if it falls through".  



Then someone comes along and with a post offering more than the seller was asking to try and undercut the previous posters.  






Hmm,  That usually happens in an IM instead....






 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Did the sell say "OBO" in his post?

If he said "first XXX price takes it" he's in the wrong.

If he said OBO he's good to sell to whoever, unless he told someone they could have it already.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:33:57 AM EDT
[#24]



Quoted:



Quoted:

If I were the seller, I'd still make the deal with the first "I'll take it" that was posted. The EE is not an auction.




I agree.  During the height of the scare, I was selling off some stuff to fund other projects.  I priced most of my ammo well below the going rate at the time, because I wasn't looking to be accused of "price gouging" and wanted to make a quick sale.  It seemed that several times I had quite a few potential buyers all trying to get in really quick and a few times the 3rd and 4th guys in line did try to offer me more.  I didn't think taking their offers would be ethical even though some of them came within seconds of each other.
I'm perfectly fine with that, as long as the decision to sell that way is yours and yours alone. It's your property, after all.



I don't want to see an EE, where sellers are being told that they must take the highest bid (like an auction site), nor do I wish to see an EE where they must sell to the first "I'll take it".



The seller should retain the right to control the disposition of his property, as he sees fit. After all, until money exchanges hands, he owns it - not you or I.
 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:41:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Equipment Exchange Rules

7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:43:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Just because someone posts I'll take it doesn't always mean they finish the deal.

How many times have we seen someone post I'll take it and then it's still bumped up to the top, as the seller is still trying to sell it because he hasn't sold it yet.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:44:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
While the EE isn't an auction, EE sellers retain the right to sell their stuff to whomever they please. If somebody comes along and offers more, BEFORE the seller has made a deal, I say he's got a right to sell it to that guy.

There is no rule that I'm aware of, that requires the seller to make a deal with the first guy who posts (or IM's) "I'll take it".


You are correct.

The would be buyer may be a douche but the seller isn't obligated to sell to the first I'll take it, unless maybe he stated so in his post.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:47:01 AM EDT
[#28]
If you offer something for sale and someone else says that they'll take it for that price; then, you have an agreement for an exchange of goods & currency. If the seller then takes another offer afterwards, then he has broken his commitment to the original buyer.

Negative feedback for welching on a deal.

ETA: Let's turn the table a bit. Say the buyer finds the same product at a lower price. Tells the seller 'Sing lao'. Would the seller then post negative feedback on the buyer for backing out on the deal?
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:49:36 AM EDT
[#29]





Quoted:



Equipment Exchange Rules





7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.



Looks like he broke the rules, then. I should have read them again, before commenting.





It's kind of a silly rule, though. You can effectively make any listing an auction by following that rule to the letter. By listing your item a little above market value and posting "Or Best Offer", you are effectively letting people bid. It's functionally identical to listing your item at a low price, and letting people bid it up. You're just doing it in reverse.





 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:50:48 AM EDT
[#30]



Quoted:


If you offer something for sale and someone else says that they'll take it for that price; then, you have an agreement for an exchange of goods & currency. If the seller then takes another offer afterwards, then he has broken his commitment to the original buyer.



Negative feedback for welching on a deal.



ETA: Let's turn the table a bit. Say the buyer finds the same product at a lower price. Tells the seller 'Sing lao'. Would the seller then post negative feedback on the buyer for backing out on the deal?


No, you do not. Not just yet.



 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 10:56:16 AM EDT
[#31]

7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.






Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:15:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
If you offer something for sale and someone else says that they'll take it for that price; then, you have an agreement for an exchange of goods & currency. If the seller then takes another offer afterwards, then he has broken his commitment to the original buyer.

Negative feedback for welching on a deal.

ETA: Let's turn the table a bit. Say the buyer finds the same product at a lower price. Tells the seller 'Sing lao'. Would the seller then post negative feedback on the buyer for backing out on the deal?



No you don't.

If someone has negative feedback or any pending negative feedback in the feedback section their "I'll take it" can be ignored

if someone only wants to pay with a payment option you don't approve of you do not have to accept the buyers wishes.

If someone demands a certain shipping method you don't have to oblige...


The buyer must agree to the exchange, if for one of many reasons he does not agree to sell it to you, tough luck

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:37:15 AM EDT
[#33]



Quoted:


Quoted:

Equipment Exchange Rules



7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.
Looks like he broke the rules, then. I should have read them again, before commenting.



It's kind of a silly rule, though. You can effectively make any listing an auction by following that rule to the letter. By listing your item a little above market value and posting "Or Best Offer", you are effectively letting people bid. It's functionally identical to listing your item at a low price, and letting people bid it up. You're just doing it in reverse.

 


Pretty much.



I wonder why there is so much hate for auctions here anyway.




 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:40:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:44:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Equipment Exchange Rules

7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.

Looks like he broke the rules, then. I should have read them again, before commenting.

It's kind of a silly rule, though. You can effectively make any listing an auction by following that rule to the letter. By listing your item a little above market value and posting "Or Best Offer", you are effectively letting people bid. It's functionally identical to listing your item at a low price, and letting people bid it up. You're just doing it in reverse.
 


I guess there is a rule about taking offers above the set price but you are still correct about the seller not being obligated to sell to the first I'll take it.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:44:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
While the EE isn't an auction, EE sellers retain the right to sell their stuff to whomever they please. If somebody comes along and offers more, BEFORE the seller has made a deal, I say he's got a right to sell it to that guy.

There is no rule that I'm aware of, that requires the seller to make a deal with the first guy who posts (or IM's) "I'll take it".


Well said. I never understood the mentality here that many hold that when a prospective buyer says he wants the item that the deal is done.

The buyer is only 50% of the equation.

If I am selling something and you say you want it, that is fine, I will consider it/sleep on it, etc., but no deal has been made until I tell you that I accept your offer.  

If a guy who is a total derelict wants my item, just because he is first, doesn't mean jack to me. I do a little background checking on a buyer and if they are GTG, then I will sell them the item.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:45:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:47:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Equipment Exchange Rules

7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.

Looks like he broke the rules, then. I should have read them again, before commenting.

It's kind of a silly rule, though. You can effectively make any listing an auction by following that rule to the letter. By listing your item a little above market value and posting "Or Best Offer", you are effectively letting people bid. It's functionally identical to listing your item at a low price, and letting people bid it up. You're just doing it in reverse.
 


I guess there is a rule about taking offers above the set price but you are still correct about the seller not being obligated to sell to the first I'll take it.


True, a seller is not obligated to sell to the first, 2nd or even the 5th to contact him. However, he cannot pit one member against another in a bidding war for the item.


I agree about not pitting buyers against each other, as long as people understand that a seller doesn't have to sell it to someone who is at all shady.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:47:51 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Please IM me the link to the sale thread I will look into it.

Dog1 EE Mod


Comrade Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR (Председатель Совета Народных Комиссаров СССР), is that you?

Look, a free market based upon capitalism does not outlaw fools.  If a seller wants to sell a 9mm bullet for $1,242.09 and there is a buyer out there that pays it, by all means, sell.  The reverse is true as well.  If a seller puts something on the market at much lower than market rate in a public setting, only a fool thinks he as a right to buy because he spoke first with an exclusivity contract, or any contract.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:52:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:52:28 AM EDT
[#41]
My threads are always OBO, there are times i turn down offers that meet my asking just because i have a funny feeling. I always research buyers and sellers i'm messing with search features does wonders, often you can find the item they are selling on the EE where they bought it or traded for it at another price. Free market has its pitfalls, however at a cash price I always go by the time stamp I feel thats only fair.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:53:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:53:50 AM EDT
[#43]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:




Quoted:

Equipment Exchange Rules



7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.


Looks like he broke the rules, then. I should have read them again, before commenting.



It's kind of a silly rule, though. You can effectively make any listing an auction by following that rule to the letter. By listing your item a little above market value and posting "Or Best Offer", you are effectively letting people bid. It's functionally identical to listing your item at a low price, and letting people bid it up. You're just doing it in reverse.

 




I guess there is a rule about taking offers above the set price but you are still correct about the seller not being obligated to sell to the first I'll take it.




True, a seller is not obligated to sell to the first, 2nd or even the 5th to contact him. However, he cannot pit one member against another in a bidding war for the item.



And no matter what some think, just because you are the first to respond, that does not mean a deal was struck.



Only when the seller says it yours and you agree, is a deal brokered.
It's still a form of an auction, if best offers are considered. With no discussion whatsoever, whether by IM or posts in the listing, a seller may list his item a bit high, and wait for the highest offer (up to but not exceeding the list price) to surface. Following the rules to the letter, he will still attain the highest price. He's simply doing it in reverse of the normal auction process, whereby the price starts far lower than market value.



Members who make offers are implicitly bidding against one another, even without the explicit involvement of the listing member.



It's just an amusing observation, from an outsider's perspective.





 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#44]
You are bidding on an item, unless the seller welshed after committing to a sale I fail to see the problem.  Occasionally you are going to lose bids unless you are willing to go up in offer amount.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 12:49:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were the seller, I'd still make the deal with the first "I'll take it" that was posted. The EE is not an auction.


I agree.  During the height of the scare, I was selling off some stuff to fund other projects.  I priced most of my ammo well below the going rate at the time, because I wasn't looking to be accused of "price gouging" and wanted to make a quick sale.  It seemed that several times I had quite a few potential buyers all trying to get in really quick and a few times the 3rd and 4th guys in line did try to offer me more.  I didn't think taking their offers would be ethical even though some of them came within seconds of each other.
I'm perfectly fine with that, as long as the decision to sell that way is yours and yours alone. It's your property, after all.

I don't want to see an EE, where sellers are being told that they must take the highest bid (like an auction site), nor do I wish to see an EE where they must sell to the first "I'll take it".

The seller should retain the right to control the disposition of his property, as he sees fit. After all, until money exchanges hands, he owns it - not you or I.



 

I would respectfully disagree.

OFFER:

Here is something for sale.  I want $***.** for it.

RESPONSE:

I'll take it.

OR, ALTERNATIVELY:

Deal!


It is a deal at the moment it is posted.  Sounds like a theme for one of those commercials where the slick dick screws with the little kids.


Link Posted: 3/6/2010 1:20:43 PM EDT
[#46]





Quoted:





Quoted:
Quoted:




Quoted:


If I were the seller, I'd still make the deal with the first "I'll take it" that was posted. The EE is not an auction.






I agree.  During the height of the scare, I was selling off some stuff to fund other projects.  I priced most of my ammo well below the going rate at the time, because I wasn't looking to be accused of "price gouging" and wanted to make a quick sale.  It seemed that several times I had quite a few potential buyers all trying to get in really quick and a few times the 3rd and 4th guys in line did try to offer me more.  I didn't think taking their offers would be ethical even though some of them came within seconds of each other.
I'm perfectly fine with that, as long as the decision to sell that way is yours and yours alone. It's your property, after all.





I don't want to see an EE, where sellers are being told that they must take the highest bid (like an auction site), nor do I wish to see an EE where they must sell to the first "I'll take it".





The seller should retain the right to control the disposition of his property, as he sees fit. After all, until money exchanges hands, he owns it - not you or I.
 



I would respectfully disagree.





OFFER:





Here is something for sale.  I want $***.** for it.





RESPONSE:





I'll take it.





OR, ALTERNATIVELY:





Deal!
It is a deal at the moment it is posted.  Sounds like a theme for one of those commercials where the slick dick screws with the little kids.



No, that's not how it works, nor should it be.

 






If I post an ad for a AR-15, and a non-team member, who joined yesterday with 2 posts says he'll take it, I don't want to be forced to sell to him. I'm going to be weary of who I mail a $1000 rifle to.

 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 1:22:47 PM EDT
[#47]



Quoted:


Equipment Exchange Rules



7. No auctions (or links to auction sites), unless specifically authorized by AR15.com. Accepting higher than stated prices for an item is considered 'taking bids' and is not allowed. If receiving a higher than advertised price is important to you, list your item on an auction site. Moreover, "Or Best Offer" is understood on the EE to mean best offer up to the listing price, not best offer above the listing price.


Is there a reason for that? Did 'auctions' become a problem in the past for some reason?



 
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 1:22:50 PM EDT
[#48]
There should be someone in charge of how much he can sell it for, you know spreading the wealth.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 1:26:07 PM EDT
[#49]
The EE rules also don't say that posting an "I'll take it" first means you get the item. The seller is free to sell to whoever he wishes. IMO, the only way an "I'll take it" posted first means you should get it is if the seller posts, "First 'I'll take it' gets it.".

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 1:31:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were the seller, I'd still make the deal with the first "I'll take it" that was posted. The EE is not an auction.


I agree.  During the height of the scare, I was selling off some stuff to fund other projects.  I priced most of my ammo well below the going rate at the time, because I wasn't looking to be accused of "price gouging" and wanted to make a quick sale.  It seemed that several times I had quite a few potential buyers all trying to get in really quick and a few times the 3rd and 4th guys in line did try to offer me more.  I didn't think taking their offers would be ethical even though some of them came within seconds of each other.
I'm perfectly fine with that, as long as the decision to sell that way is yours and yours alone. It's your property, after all.

I don't want to see an EE, where sellers are being told that they must take the highest bid (like an auction site), nor do I wish to see an EE where they must sell to the first "I'll take it".

The seller should retain the right to control the disposition of his property, as he sees fit. After all, until money exchanges hands, he owns it - not you or I.



 

I would respectfully disagree.

OFFER:

Here is something for sale.  I want $***.** for it.

RESPONSE:

I'll take it.

OR, ALTERNATIVELY:

Deal!


It is a deal at the moment it is posted.  Sounds like a theme for one of those commercials where the slick dick screws with the little kids.




That's nonsense. As I just said, the EE rules don't say to post an "I'll take it". That's just a commonly used method on the EE.

What if someone already sent them an email or IM saying they would take it? Or what if the first "I'll take it" is posted by someone with one post, and you'd prefer to deal with someone who has a more established reputation, perhaps for a high dollar item?

It's the seller's discretion on who he wants to sell to. It's not a deal until both the buyer and seller acknowledge they are making the deal with one another.

ETA: I would never put in one of my ads the phrase, "First 'I'll take it' gets it". Why would I do that to myself? It's stupid.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top