Crown molding help. Out of square walls/ceiling - Not a newbie, but I'm not a pro...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Crown molding help. Out of square walls/ceiling - Not a newbie, but I'm not a pro...

Posted: 9/8/2010 9:29:28 AM EDT

In my last house, 1930s Tudor with plaster walls, I shot crown in many of the rooms. The corners in that place were almost perfect and I ran into very few problems.

Now I'm in a newer home and I'm about to tear my hair out. Remodeling the powder room. Tile went in great. Wainscotting in great. Base trim in perfectly.

The two piece crown is going to be my undoing. The mullion that I installed as a backer at the base of the crown went in fine. The crown itself will not.

Along the ceiling, the wall corner that I'm starting in is 92 to 92-1/2 degrees. I cannot get my coped joint to even remotely mate with the starter piece along the most visible wall. Also, the ceiling is not exactly level.

The sprung angle is a typical 38-deg for the molding I'm using.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Posted: 9/8/2010 2:03:10 PM EDT

[#1]

Did you nail one piece in all the way expecting the coped piece to but up to it? Leave the corners un nailed and wherever the cope sits perfect will determine where it gets nailed.

Posted: 9/8/2010 5:31:33 PM EDT

[#2]

You are coping at an angle to allow some relief, right?

Personally, I use a jigsaw, but this illustrates the idea.

Posted: 9/8/2010 5:37:35 PM EDT

[#3]

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:03:41 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sjuBZ3URnso/SP_xRuDVSJI/AAAAAAAADs8/g3A658-ZaUk/s400/wood+putty.jpg

http://www.interstonesupplies.com/mmINTER/Images/Caulking.jpg

http://media.supereco.com/media/2009/05/27/320w/white-paint-brush.jpg

Yes, all those have their place but they are not a substitute for doing things correctly. Caulk is for making a smooth transition for paint, not for filling gaps due to shitty carpentry. Too many out there rely on caulk as a crutch.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:26:40 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sjuBZ3URnso/SP_xRuDVSJI/AAAAAAAADs8/g3A658-ZaUk/s400/wood+putty.jpg

http://www.interstonesupplies.com/mmINTER/Images/Caulking.jpg

http://media.supereco.com/media/2009/05/27/320w/white-paint-brush.jpg

Yes, all those have their place but they are not a substitute for doing things correctly. Caulk is for making a smooth transition for paint, not for filling gaps due to shitty carpentry. Too many out there rely on caulk as a crutch.

I agree, however if the walls were hung correctly, the OP wouldn't be in the situation he is in. Sometimes you can't polish shit no matter how much you rub it. As you are well aware, there are some situations where there is no "good" way to fix the problem. The alternative is to do the best you can to make sure the fix is secure and appealing to the eye.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:39:34 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sjuBZ3URnso/SP_xRuDVSJI/AAAAAAAADs8/g3A658-ZaUk/s400/wood+putty.jpg

http://www.interstonesupplies.com/mmINTER/Images/Caulking.jpg

http://media.supereco.com/media/2009/05/27/320w/white-paint-brush.jpg

Yes, all those have their place but they are not a substitute for doing things correctly. Caulk is for making a smooth transition for paint, not for filling gaps due to shitty carpentry. Too many out there rely on caulk as a crutch.

I agree, however if the walls were hung correctly, the OP wouldn't be in the situation he is in. Sometimes you can't polish shit no matter how much you rub it. As you are well aware, there are some situations where there is no "good" way to fix the problem. The alternative is to do the best you can to make sure the fix is secure and appealing to the eye.

Inside corners will never be a true 90 degree because of the tape and compound. I'm sure the drywall is hung like 90% of the other drywall out there. If you know how to properly install crown it should not be an issue. This is one of the reasons we cope instead of using inside miters. If you lock one piece in place using measurements or a line or a level the other piece probably won't fit right. You need to leave corners loose until you can get the cope to sit correctly.

Posted: 9/9/2010 6:27:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sjuBZ3URnso/SP_xRuDVSJI/AAAAAAAADs8/g3A658-ZaUk/s400/wood+putty.jpg

http://www.interstonesupplies.com/mmINTER/Images/Caulking.jpg

http://media.supereco.com/media/2009/05/27/320w/white-paint-brush.jpg

Yes, all those have their place but they are not a substitute for doing things correctly. Caulk is for making a smooth transition for paint, not for filling gaps due to shitty carpentry. Too many out there rely on caulk as a crutch.

I agree, however if the walls were hung correctly, the OP wouldn't be in the situation he is in. Sometimes you can't polish shit no matter how much you rub it. As you are well aware, there are some situations where there is no "good" way to fix the problem. The alternative is to do the best you can to make sure the fix is secure and appealing to the eye.

Inside corners will never be a true 90 degree because of the tape and compound. I'm sure the drywall is hung like 90% of the other drywall out there. If you know how to properly install crown it should not be an issue. This is one of the reasons we cope instead of using inside miters. If you lock one piece in place using measurements or a line or a level the other piece probably won't fit right. You need to leave corners loose until you can get the cope to sit correctly.

This is the way to do it. If the corners are only a couple of degrees out a good cope will fit fine. hell, 10 degrees out and a cope still works with minor adjustments

Posted: 9/9/2010 8:02:57 PM EDT

[#8]

Hey OP, what type of trim is the mullion you're describing?

Posted: 9/10/2010 9:19:20 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Hey OP, what type of trim is the mullion you're describing?

It's basically chair rail backer that I ripped down the middle on the tablesaw.

I've shelved the crown, though. Decided to go with a 2-piece detail made up of 5-1/2" base and some nice chair rail along the top. I can cope joints like a mofo, but with the out-of-square walls I'm better off working in two plains as opposed to 3, as with crown (which I haven't worked with in several years).

Thanks for all the input guys!!!!

Posted: 9/10/2010 10:32:36 AM EDT

[#10]

Just make sure the molding CAN be coped.

There are a number of patterns that cannot.

When you shape it flat, then spring it to 45 degrees on the wall it is possible to have undercuts that cannot be coped.

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:03:54 AM EDT

[#11]

Were you trying to cut the crown upside down and backwards, kinda nestled up against the fence?

Here is a different technique. It may sound complicated, but it really is the easy way for standard crowns:
Check it out, I'm going on the assumption that you have a duel bevel miter saw. Take the crown and lay it flat on its back on the saws table, right side up. You want to swing the miter, on the front of the saw, to 31.62 degrees. Next, lean the bevel over to 33.85 degrees on the back of the saw. Most saws have a detent or a least a reference mark on those settings specifically for this application.

This method eliminates the upside down and backwards confusion, and all the aggravation of trying to get a long floppy piece of crown nestled up against the fence just right.

Good luck, OP.

EDIT: For clarity.

EDIT 2:
Here is a short vid.

Posted: 9/11/2010 12:29:07 PM EDT

[#12]

What is the purpose of not nailing the ends of the crown?

So you can shim them to get a better joint between the two pieces?

Posted: 9/11/2010 12:47:38 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
What is the purpose of not nailing the ends of the crown?
So you can shim them to get a better joint between the two pieces?

I keep a short block by the saw of whatever material I am coping. This way after I finish my cope I can hold the test block against it to make sure my cope is dead on. With crown you are dealing with a few angles. You'll notice that when they are tweaked one way or another that cope will really open up. You want to leave the ends loose so that you can either knock them up or down until the crown on one wall fits into the cope from the crown on the next wall. If you nail the first piece all the way to the end and then run the coped piece against that your are locked in. There is no way to get the cope to sit correctly and tight unless you were able to scribe the entire piece and re-cope it to the new angle.

As Brickeyee pointed out a few posts back, though, not all crown can be coped.

Posted: 9/11/2010 12:55:12 PM EDT

[#14]

Gotcha. It's coming up on my "to do" list. Is there a way for us non carpenter types to tell if the crown design we chose is able to be coped?

Posted: 9/11/2010 12:59:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Gotcha. It's coming up on my "to do" list. Is there a way for us non carpenter types to tell if the crown design we chose is able to be coped?

Are you going with a standard profile type or something with a lot of beads and details in it? There are no issues with the basic stuff, those come when the crown becomes more ornate.

Posted: 9/11/2010 3:11:04 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Gotcha. It's coming up on my "to do" list. Is there a way for us non carpenter types to tell if the crown design we chose is able to be coped?

Are you going with a standard profile type or something with a lot of beads and details in it? There are no issues with the basic stuff, those come when the crown becomes more ornate.

Nothing fancy..something like this.

Posted: 9/11/2010 4:11:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Gotcha. It's coming up on my "to do" list. Is there a way for us non carpenter types to tell if the crown design we chose is able to be coped?

Are you going with a standard profile type or something with a lot of beads and details in it? There are no issues with the basic stuff, those come when the crown becomes more ornate.

Nothing fancy..something like this.

http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/g/0706_moldings/crown-molding-02.jpg

Yup, that one you can cope no problem.

It's upside down in that pic, though

Posted: 9/11/2010 4:15:37 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Gotcha. It's coming up on my "to do" list. Is there a way for us non carpenter types to tell if the crown design we chose is able to be coped?

Are you going with a standard profile type or something with a lot of beads and details in it? There are no issues with the basic stuff, those come when the crown becomes more ornate.

Nothing fancy..something like this.

http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/g/0706_moldings/crown-molding-02.jpg

No question, you can cope that profile.

Edit: CT beat me to the answer, so I'll just screw around a bit.