Our study group is pondering if the US will be in existence
when Israel is invaded in John's revelation? There is no mentioning of the West
or the USA.
Also Ezekiel 39:6 states:

                                 "And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live
                                  in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the Lord"

Is the USA the ones who dwell in the coastlands fat, dumb, and happy?

I can't remember which book it's in, but it seems like I have read some verse that mentions the "Eagle" having a role in the final days.

Quoted: I can't remember which book it's in, but it seems like I have read some verse that mentions the "Eagle" having a role in the final days.

You mean "Eddie Eagle"??



Damn, I always knew the NRA was going to have something to do with the apocalypse.




Seriously, I don't think there's any mention of North America in the bible, nor do I think the native Americans of that period had much to say about Israel. I think it has something to do with neither one being aware of global geography.

Sadly, I haven't seen anything that indicates the USA is a major player at the end.

I think that lines up with current events and the direction we're going.  The seeds of our destruction from within have been sown for some time now.

That is because the prophecy concerns the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.    It has already occured and depending on your beliefs is either fulfilled prophecy (Preterist view) or a fraud written after the fact (Historicist view)

tagged.



men discussing end-times prophecy reminds me of ants discussing the nature of the man who's toe they are crawling over.


edit:

Y'all go right ahead, though - it's fascinating stuff, and I'm sure a lot of theory is correct to an extent, but it's honestly over my head and something I won't let divide me from other Christians.

Quoted: Is the USA the ones who dwell in the coastlands fat, dumb, and happy?

I'm more worried about the church being like that of Laodicea which also had the same problem as the coastlanders.

However, back to your original point on the USA in prophecy, it is a fascinating topic but I have nothing to add other than I think the USA is only alluded to in scripture.

I will also add that we are fulfilling the prophecy of the great statue (Daniel 2) by not becoming a great empire, leaving the divided Roman empire (the legs of iron and feet of iron and clay) as the last.

Quoted: That is because the prophecy concerns the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.    It has already occured and depending on your beliefs is either fulfilled prophecy (Preterist view) or a fraud written after the fact (Historicist view)

I agree. I am a partial preterist though, not a full preterist.

I think too many Christains focus on the "end times" is the wrong focus. They use it as evangelism. they use it to preach salvations from, harm, pain, suffering, wrath. They use it to preach anything other than being saved from sin.

Quoted: I can't remember which book it's in, but it seems like I have read some verse that mentions the "Eagle" having a role in the final days.

Not in any book in the Bible.
Besides the US is an apostate Nation that endeavors to silence the gospel and promotes the murder of millions of children. IMHO of course. There are no "christian" nations. Nont even close.

Quoted: Quoted: I can't remember which book it's in, but it seems like I have read some verse that mentions the "Eagle" having a role in the final days. Not in any book in the Bible. Besides the US is an apostate Nation that endeavors to silence the gospel and promotes the murder of millions of children. IMHO of course. There are no "christian" nations. Nont even close.

Best i can tell, there are 'Christian' families, and 'Christian' churches.

There are no 'Christian':

schools/colleges
nations
wars
businesses
and so on.

If anyone can find convincing NT scripture to support the ordination of any institution other than the family and the church, I'd love to hear it.






(disclaimer: again, the above is all my opinion, and my opinion only. YMMV)

It has to do with the last days not the romans. The war before Armageddon is the big one, 1/3 of the world dead. As I recall reading the war sounded nueclear/ fire brimstone type of stuff. I think that would take out any current major players. Then the Muslims would be free to siege Jerusalem.

I don't  think doom and gloom gets many converts but when you see the fig tree sprouting you know Summer is nigh. Ten virgins etc.

My opinion.

A little P.S.
If all the Mormons in NO listened to their Prophet they would have had enough to last till the rescuers came. Not to say that all would have been spared.

YES

Quoted: Sadly, I haven't seen anything that indicates the USA is a major player at the end. I think that lines up with current events and the direction we're going.  The seeds of our destruction from within have been sown for some time now.

See my sig-line....

We KNOW, the beast will be the most powerful military/economic power of the time..........

We know, it will "appear", like a Lamb.

Does it seem like China, Russia, or the EU will "appear like a lamb," any time soon????  

Any guess's as to who fits the description????      



(Get out of the cities....)

"You shall not know the day or the hour...."

Quoted: "You shall not know the day or the hour...."

No, but We sure DO know the "Time".........


MT 13:1 ¶  And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2  And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4  Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
5 ¶  And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7  And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10  And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11  But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12  Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 ¶  But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15  And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16  And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17  But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18  And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19  For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20  And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21  And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23  But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 ¶  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

I went ahead and did the red, for those of you who have been MISLEAD into thinking Jesus is gonna bail you out BEFORE the "Tribulation".....


(Get out of the Cities....)

Which verse are you refering too, you have me quite intrigued.  

Quoted: Quoted: "You shall not know the day or the hour...." No, but We sure DO know the "Time"......... MT 13:1 ¶  And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2  And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4  Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5 ¶  And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7  And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10  And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11  But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12  Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 ¶  But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15  And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16  And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17  But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18  And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19  For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20  And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21  And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23  But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 ¶  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. I went ahead and did the red, for those of you who have been MISLEAD into thinking Jesus is gonna bail you out BEFORE the "Tribulation"..... (Get out of the Cities....)

I would have argued with you for days that you were wrong a few years ago. Then it was pointed out that all the early church founders agreed with what your saying. That the rapture is , at best , at 250 year old idea. I don't beleive in new interpretations of the word. And no thee U.S. isn't mentioned in the bible.

Quoted: You folks have to make the distinction between the return of Christ for the Church (commonly called the rapture) and The Second Comming of Christ in Power and Glory.  He does not come back to the earth itself in the first one, but meets the church in the air.  The second involves his physical return and reign on the earth.  The first one is secret and sudden (no man knows the day or the hour/thief in the night etc) and the second is predicted down to the exact day, something you can mark on your calendar (Daniel 9, and several other places in Daniel) And no, America is not a player, save for the "dwell in safety on the coastlands" reference. America is being handed its hat in the realm of world politics. By the way, the book of Daniel is much more useful to the study of end time events than the Book of Revelation.  Revelation only covers a very short time span at the end, and is not very clear in some cases.  Daniel covers the entire span of world history and is often interpreted directly for the reader.

"The first one is secret and sudden (no man knows the day or the hour/thief in the night etc) "
Could you back that up with scripture please? Thank you


Matt 24:29-36
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
(KJV)
It doesn't seem like he is talking about a secret rapture to me, seems to me he was talking to a group of people and telling them that at that time no one knew the day or hour. We still don't , but those people who go thru it will.


1 Thess 5:2-5,6
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief...
6 Therefore, let us not sleep as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
(KJV)

Again, isn't Paul saying we will know the day of the Lord if we pay attention?

Revelation 18

1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority; and the earth was made bright with his splendor.
2 And he called out with a mighty voice, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! It has become a dwelling place of demons, a haunt of every foul spirit, a haunt of every foul and hateful bird;
3 for all nations have drunk the wine of her impure passion, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich with the wealth of her wantonness."
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Render to her as she herself has rendered, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double draught for her in the cup she mixed.
7 As she glorified herself and played the wanton, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning. Since in her heart she says, 'A queen I sit, I am no widow, mourning I shall never see,'
8 so shall her plagues come in a single day, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she shall be burned with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."
9 And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning;
10 they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, "Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come."
11 And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo any more,
12 cargo of gold, silver, jewels and pearls, fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet, all kinds of scented wood, all articles of ivory, all articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble,
13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
14 "The fruit for which thy soul longed has gone from thee, and all thy dainties and thy splendor are lost to thee, never to be found again!"
15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
16 "Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, bedecked with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!
17 In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste." And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off
18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, "What city was like the great city?"
19 And they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and mourned, crying out, "Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste.
20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!"
21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more;
22 and the sound of harpers and minstrels, of flute players and trumpeters, shall be heard in thee no more; and a craftsman of any craft shall be found in thee no more; and the sound of the millstone shall be heard in thee no more;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine in thee no more; and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall be heard in thee no more; for thy merchants were the great men of the earth, and all nations were deceived by thy sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."

Sort seems like I saw this on TV once.  Though I could be convinced that this could happen in the Kiloton variety.

All great cities are on the coast - or astride waters... Constantinople was atride more boutiful waters than Rome (the Tiber river is small).

Rivers run through Paris, Berlin, Moscow, London, New York, DC....

As for the Eagle: Imperial Rome had eagles on their standards...but so did Prussia, Poland, and other European powers.

We're big and mightly now... but Spain was the super-power of the 15th century through the 17th. Spain's armies were undefeated for centuries and their navy ruled the seas centuries before England's.  I'm sure they read their role into the scripture just as we read ourselves into it today.

Who knows...maybe some day Chinese bloggers will be reading themselves into the Bible's prophecies too.

<SNIP>

I think too many Christains focus on the "end times" is the wrong focus. They use it as evangelism. they use it to preach salvations from, harm, pain, suffering, wrath. They use it to preach anything other than being saved from sin.

You beat me to it.