i have a few friends who are also Christian and they seem to feel that any slight against them is a form of persecution.
you have to be careful around them because the off color joke or wrong phrase gets them defensive.  it really is starting to seem like they have some sort of disorder.  i hear a joke that bashes my religion and i laugh if it's funny or smile politely if it's not.  these people act hurt and want to get up in someones face.  when i think o persecution i think of being fed to lions and burned at the stake.  not someone telling a joke i don't find funny.

so how thin is your Christian skin?

I define persecution as death. We have yet to see real religious persecution in this country. When that day comes I fear many so called beleivers will chose poorly.

Damn straight my religion is being persecuted.  Hell, just the other day the Pope, none the less, called for a "war" against Pagans(I'm Heathen, close enough).  I can't see a NASCAR race or any other sporting event what that they don't pray to he desert god and leave out all of the Heathen gods.  You'd think that a quick offering of beer to Thor for safety would be in order for guys going 200+ MPH but no, no mention of him, go figure.  If I even mention that I'm Asatru people think, right away, that I'm raceist or a baby killer.  Heathen/Pagans get a bumb rap in this country.  

Quoted: so how thin is your Christian skin?

I have seen lots of atheists who get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone mentions God in public, and they want to start suing people over it. Any mention of God is a dig at them and a form of persecution. Any display of faith within their eyesight is an offense and a form of persecution.

So I must ask:

How thick is your atheist skin???

Quoted: Quoted: so how thin is your Christian skin? I have seen lots of atheists who get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone mentions God in public, and they want to start suing people over it. Any mention of God is a dig at them and a form of persecution. Any display of faith within their eyesight is an offense and a form of persecution. So I must ask: How thick is your atheist skin???

This is in fun and not meant to offend. I put something up from both sides and neither is represenative of all.


Atheist is Deacon's cyber-doppelganger. Deacon and Atheist hold equally fervent, though diametrically opposed beliefs about religion, and both feel compelled to share those beliefs at every possible opportunity. Should an unsuspecting forum member make even a passing comment about faith or spirituality of any flavor, Atheist will descend like one of the Furies, mercilessly hectoring all of the ignorant and delusional believers about the sordid history of the church and the pernicious effects of religion on society. After a few of Atheist’s anti-religious jeremiads most other Warriors will avoid the subject altogether, though Evil Clown may egg him on a little, and Philosopher may amuse himself by pointing out flaws in his reasoning. If a forum has the misfortune of having both Deacon and Atheist as members, the bickering often continues until Nanny or Admin pulls the plug. Bliss Ninny can also sometimes squelch the conversation by saying, “Well, everyone has a right to their [sic] opinion.”


Course we have this as well


Be he a Baptist, Scientologist or Zoroastrian, in the heat of battle Deacon will call down Divine retribution on all net sinners, and will never miss an opportunity to blather endlessly about his religion. Deacon is fervent and earnest, but seldom contributes anything of interest or substance to the discussion. Occasionally Tireless Rebutter or Philosopher will rouse themselves engage Deacon in battle, but they soon lose interest because of his utter predictability.

I don't feel persecuted in any way, by anyone. I believe persecution will involve slavery, torture and death.

Quoted: I define persecution as death. We have yet to see real religious persecution in this country. When that day comes I fear many so called beleivers will chose poorly.

Thats because you weren't around in the mid to late 1800's. It was leagal to kill Mormons in the state of Missouri till the 1980's. When a lawyer got his client off of a murder charge cause he found out the victim was Mormon.  Then they decided they ought to change the law. I have also heard of some J/W persecuted in the early 1900's. As long as there are Christiians there will be persecution. But of late in this country there is almost zero these days.

I don't think jokes are persecution, maybe poor taste or a some meaness. I am the one who choses wether to be offended or not.

Not yet.

But it is happening around the world.  Sudan, Egypt, North Korea, China...

When it will get here is a matter of time.

Quoted: Quoted: so how thin is your Christian skin? I have seen lots of atheists who get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone mentions God in public, and they want to start suing people over it. Any mention of God is a dig at them and a form of persecution. Any display of faith within their eyesight is an offense and a form of persecution. So I must ask: How thick is your atheist skin???

pretty thick actually.  

I'm all for a live and let live policy.   The only time anything should be said is when men in government overstep their bounds.

For instance:

A judge sentences a non-Christian to attend counseling at a Christian church.
A city council member denies permission for a minority religion to setup a place of worship because they aren't a real religion.  
Members of a state run military academy force their views on subordinates via harassment and intimidation.
An atheist teacher who wants to prevent someone else's child from personal prayer in school.

The military has a pretty good track record of dealing with a multi-faith environment.   If the rest of the US dealt with things in a similar way, we would get along a lot better.

Quoted: Not yet. But it is happening around the world.  Sudan, Egypt, North Korea, China... When it will get here is a matter of time.

Brohawk, serious question.

Christians are the vast majority in the US and hold the majority of positions in the government and the military.   If persecution occurs it will be Christians persecuting Christians (barring some really weird tin foil type of event like the blue helmets moving in)

Do you really think Christians in the US are in danger of persecution in the immediate future or is this more of a expectation of prophecy to be fulfilled with no date known?

I do not believe Christians will be persecuted in the USA a la Roman Circus Maximus lions and tigers eating Christian babies. There are far, far too many Christians with the majority of the population believing in (a) God, and the rest believing in religious freedom. It was one of the founding principles of this nation. There will be a civil war bloodier than the first one if this is jeopardized.

The difference between Christians in Roman times and present day is that it was illegal for commoners to own swords. Nearly every Christian I know owns more than one gun.

I do not feel persecuted. I especially don't feel persecuted because someone disagrees with my own faith and beliefs. They have to bear their own cross -- so to speak.

I can be a Christian, pray, and have a relationship with God the Father without infringing upon anyone else.

Quoted: I do not believe Christians will be persecuted in the USA a la Roman Circus Maximus lions and tigers eating Christian babies. There are far, far too many Christians with the majority of the population believing in (a) God, and the rest believing in religious freedom. It was one of the founding principles of this nation. There will be a civil war bloodier than the first one if this is jeopardized. The difference between Christians in Roman times and present day is that it was illegal for commoners to own swords. Nearly every Christian I know owns more than one gun. I do not feel persecuted. I especially don't feel persecuted because someone disagrees with my own faith and beliefs. They have to bear their own cross -- so to speak. I can be a Christian, pray, and have a relationship with God the Father without infringing upon anyone else.

+1  I'm a UU, but most of my friends and families are Christian so, should that day come, we'll be on the same side.   Like you, I just don't see any way its possible given the Christian majority.

Quoted: I define persecution as death. We have yet to see real religious persecution in this country. When that day comes I fear many so called beleivers will chose poorly.

Your definition sounds more like execution.

per·se·cu·tion
Function: noun
: punishment or harassment usually of a severe nature on the basis of race, religion, or political opinion in one's country of origin

ex·e·cu·tion
Function: noun
1 : the act or process of executing <witnessed the execution of the will>
2 : a putting to death as fulfillment of a judicial death sentence
3 : the process of enforcing a judgment

Shok

Quoted: Quoted: Not yet. But it is happening around the world.  Sudan, Egypt, North Korea, China... When it will get here is a matter of time. Brohawk, serious question. Christians are the vast majority in the US and hold the majority of positions in the government and the military.   If persecution occurs it will be Christians persecuting Christians (barring some really weird tin foil type of event like the blue helmets moving in) Do you really think Christians in the US are in danger of persecution in the immediate future or is this more of a expectation of prophecy to be fulfilled with no date known?

Not immediate future.

It will take some time for things to get that bad.

I do see a general decline in our society when it comes to moral standards and ethical behavior.  More and more, what was considered unhealthy or wrong is tolerated.

I heard someone say, "What one generation tolerates, the next enjoys to excess."

Consider the pastor in Swedden (IIRC) who preached a sermon within his church on the Biblical view toward homosexuality.  He actually served time in jail for that.

Our northern neighbor, Canada, will not allow John Hagee's program into the country because he preaches against behavior that is wrong according to the Bible.  Iread an article recently that said in Canada, publicly reading Bible passages about homosexuality is classified as "hate speech."

Here?  Well, it will take longer to manifest, but I wouldn't feel confident saying it won't happen here.

I don't really worry about what happens on the internet, even though much of it, technically, could be considered persecution.


But, yes, I have seen 'persecution' happen in real life.

Interestingly enough, what little I have seen of it has all came from 'Christians' who get offended when you won't make the same compromises they have.

Having said that, I think we're a long way from having a Bonehoffer or Nee experience here in the USA - not because there's nobody to persecute us, but because there are none of us yet willing to absolutely never compromise anything.

Consider this: how many of us (me, for one) have declined to witness to someone we work with, for fear of losing our jobs?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not yet. But it is happening around the world.  Sudan, Egypt, North Korea, China... When it will get here is a matter of time. Brohawk, serious question. Christians are the vast majority in the US and hold the majority of positions in the government and the military.   If persecution occurs it will be Christians persecuting Christians (barring some really weird tin foil type of event like the blue helmets moving in) Do you really think Christians in the US are in danger of persecution in the immediate future or is this more of a expectation of prophecy to be fulfilled with no date known? Not immediate future. It will take some time for things to get that bad. I do see a general decline in our society when it comes to moral standards and ethical behavior.  More and more, what was considered unhealthy or wrong is tolerated. I heard someone say, "What one generation tolerates, the next enjoys to excess." Consider the pastor in Swedden (IIRC) who preached a sermon within his church on the Biblical view toward homosexuality.  He actually served time in jail for that. Our northern neighbor, Canada, will not allow John Hagee's program into the country because he preaches against behavior that is wrong according to the Bible.  Iread an article recently that said in Canada, publicly reading Bible passages about homosexuality is classified as "hate speech." Here?  Well, it will take longer to manifest, but I wouldn't feel confident saying it won't happen here.

I don't believe it will get to that point, the problem [from most of "OUR" views] isn't what gets preached in church.........

Quoted: I don't believe it will get to that point, the problem [from most of "OUR" views] isn't what gets preached in church.........

But what is said in public?


We have a thing called the First Amendment.  In a free society with free speech, somebody is going to say something you don't like.

I know I see and hear things every day that offend me.  However, I recognize that opposing viewpoints are protected (not the same as validated ) by the First Amendment.

The question is how that part of the Constitution will be abused by those who see it as a "living document."

For example, this nonsense about "hate speech."

It's an attempt to limit speech that some (or most, depending on the case) would find distasteful.  Also, it is a blatant attempt by the left to stifle opposition and debate.  Hey, if they can't win rationally...

Most people would disagree with the crap spouted by KKK, 88s, etc...  However offensive and wrong it is, they still have a right to say it.

There are trends that if projected out 50 years or so really make you wonder where we are going.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't believe it will get to that point, the problem [from most of "OUR" views] isn't what gets preached in church......... But what is said in public?

Nope....it's what ends up becoming law, I'm a big beleiver in the 1st Amendement for EVERYBODY.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't believe it will get to that point, the problem [from most of "OUR" views] isn't what gets preached in church......... But what is said in public? We have a thing called the First Amendment.  In a free society with free speech, somebody is going to say something you don't like. I know I see and hear things every day that offend me.  However, I recognize that opposing viewpoints are protected (not the same as validated ) by the First Amendment. The question is how that part of the Constitution will be abused by those who see it as a "living document." For example, this nonsense about "hate speech." It's an attempt to limit speech that some (or most, depending on the case) would find distasteful.  Also, it is a blatant attempt by the left to stifle opposition and debate.  Hey, if they can't win rationally... Most people would disagree with the crap spouted by KKK, 88s, etc...  However offensive and wrong it is, they still have a right to say it. There are trends that if projected out 50 years or so really make you wonder where we are going.

What about Britian tossing out Muslim clerics who advocate violence?

Should we do the same here?

Quoted: What about Britian tossing out Muslim clerics who advocate violence? Should we do the same here?

A couple of points.

First, Islamic extremists are responsible for the vast majority of terrorist acts around the world.

The KKK says despicable things, and in the past have performed reprehensible acts, but they aren't slaughtering in wholesale at random.

In light of that, when people of the same general population as the terrorists advocate more terrorism and murder, they are singling themselves out for some... special attention.

I don't see it in the same category as people who say stupid stuff.

Quoted: Quoted: What about Britian tossing out Muslim clerics who advocate violence? Should we do the same here? A couple of points. First, Islamic extremists are responsible for the vast majority of terrorist acts around the world. The KKK says despicable things, and in the past have performed reprehensible acts, but they aren't slaughtering in wholesale at random. In light of that, when people of the same general population as the terrorists advocate more terrorism and murder, they are singling themselves out for some... special attention. I don't see it in the same category as people who say stupid stuff.

If you has ever been targetted by members of the KKK, you might feel different.