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Posted: 8/18/2005 12:18:06 PM EDT
Here's something to think about. Science has figured out that we live in a Multiverse, that there are Parallel Universes to our own, in fact, an infinite number of them. So, who's to say that the teaching of all the great religions are just as right for those universes and as such all religions, when followed correctly, will lead to the proper outcome that the religion states. For Buddists that live a proper Buddist life, Nirvana awaits after death, for Christians their Paridise and the same for proper Muslims. The same for Taoists and Hindus and Siks and even those of us who follow the Elder gods of Asatru can go to our ancestors in the afterlife. It's all correct and right because of the infinite possibilities brought on by an infinite number of Universes.
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Posted: 8/18/2005 12:46:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Actuallly thats impossible. If they are all right. Judaism and Christianity worship a God that is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. The absolute supreme ruler of everything. If thats the case and right like in your hyppothetical scanario, then the others cannot exist for God would have prevented them from existing in the first palce. If He is the sovereign God we claim He is, then He could certainly limit the other universes to His liking.
Of course if our God isnt sovereign then your idea may be valid. Like you said, if all were "right". For all the other universes to exist with different Gods, would mean God is not sovereign or in absolute control. Maybe if all religions didnt claim to be the only one, then your idea would be valid. If all religions who claimed to be the only way were right , then your scenario would be impossible. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#2]
The deal is though that it was the Judo/Christian god that told ya' he was sovereign and if I were a god and was going to start my own religion wouldn't it make sense to "dis" the compitition and say that "I" was the only god?
That's like the one where you ask someone to prove that there is a god and they say "Well, in the bible it says....." If you don't believe in god then the bible becomes irrevelent. I could say that I was the only god and write a book about it and use it to "prove" that I was right because the book says that I am. It doesn't make it so just because a book says it is. Parallel Universes are pretty much a proven fact of Science. Who's to say that those Universes aren't where the "gods" came from in the first place. Maybe if you follow "god X" you're go to Parallel Universe "X" when you die here. If it's "god K" then you'll go to the K Universe. Just some food for thought. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 12:55:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Or every religion is an inadequate explanaton of the reality of a supreme being and God accepts people on any path who strive to live good lives. In other words, its not the path you take, its what you do along the path that is important. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 12:59:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Hey Dino, long time no see, glad to talk to ya' pard. That is an interesting way to look at it. In fact in the Christian bible, IIRC, it says something about "god writting his law on their hearts" so that even people that have never heard of Christ or know about YHVH could still follow a "right path" and be "saved" from destruction. Glad to see that some of ya'll are thinking about this from a few angles. In Frith. 
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:22:37 PM EDT
[#5]
I was just sayig if they were all "right" then it would be impossible. That is if what they claim to be true is actually right, then the exclusive ones would negate the incusive ones.
Also Parallel universes are not proven fact. There is some very good information that shows they are not impossible or improbable, just not a proven fact. And even then, they would still be finite in number. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:22:46 PM EDT
[#6]
hey TNFrank,
I'm still around, just lurking last few days as it was primarily Christian topics after the evolution/age of the earth arguments burned out.  Some members of my family take that view. They claim my conscience is really God's voice giving me guidance, I just refuse to recognize it as such. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:25:37 PM EDT
[#7]
If everyone scores a C minus on a test, they were all "equally right" If noone has it 100% right, a loving God might look with favor on anyone who strives to follow a path. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:27:28 PM EDT
[#8]
I was just going by if the religions were right in the absolute sense. Not maybe right but possibly wrong in the big picture, but if they were each completely and totally right. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:31:49 PM EDT
[#9]
That wasn't what was suggested though. Although If God is omnipotent and omnipresent, there is nothing stopping him from making it true. It would simply be another mystery like the Trinity
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:37:28 PM EDT
[#10]
This is the first i have ever heard of it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:37:36 PM EDT
[#11]
____________________________________________________________ Most, if not every, religion has at it's core a tradition of ethical values, which may, and often are, clumped together as the "goden rules". These are of primacy, irrespective of what one may deem as "right" or "wrong", for these are the values we live by outside of our respective religious denominations. As each of us interacts on a daily basis with people who don't belong to your faith, we rely upon these commonly shared values...at work, during our commute...whatever. Our commonly held values, therefore, are what unites us rather than divides us. It's only when we percieve those as not beholding to ones adopted creed do we then begin a cycle of ugliness. Ours? Theirs? No...it's us, together. One may find a spiritual home whereby one is comfortable to express their relgious nature; I would postulate that it's outside of this spiritual home that we prove ourselves true before g-d and humankind. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#12]
I understand, but what he is saying then there be different paths to Salvation, ,making Jesus a liar and then Christianity false and therefore not "right" . So again not all religions can be right. Anyway I get your point. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:40:06 PM EDT
[#13]
______________________________________________________ You portray religion--by that I infer an ethos--as a win, no-win situation. Again, I postulate that it's our shared ethos that is of primacy. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:42:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Many, if not most, religions are mutually exclusive.
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:43:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Me too, and I have studied cosmology. What he's saying is bull. There are theories, but all have serious problems. They certainly aren't proven (at least that I'm aware of . . . maybe this was just discovered today). I thought he was giving us a hypothetical situation (what if there were a proven multi verse) at first, but then I realized he was serious . . .  To TNFrank: What you're proposing obviously has no room for the law of non-contradiction . Do away with the LoNC, and you do away with logic. Do away with logic, and you do away with the means to reach conclusions. Do away with the means to reach conclusions, and your conclusion is meaningless! In effect, you are simply saying "Any way you look at it, I'm wrong." |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:47:20 PM EDT
[#16]
That was my hole point about them all being able to be right. Because most are exclusive, it would be impossible to all of them to be 100% correct. Maybe the title shoudl have been. "What if all religions were mistaken and were all equal" Thats seem to be the point being expressed. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:48:33 PM EDT
[#17]
It was on Star Trek back in the '60s, mon. Your agonizer please. Me ->  Parallel Universe Me -> 
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Posted: 8/18/2005 1:57:02 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 8/18/2005 2:34:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Well gee, here's some links, catch up. www.manyuniverses.com/ www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/paralleluni.shtml en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_universe 
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Posted: 8/18/2005 2:41:53 PM EDT
[#20]
_______________________________________________ And...these links indicate...proof? Theories, perhaps...good SCI-FI? Sure! Just curious, are you a Scientologist? |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 2:55:19 PM EDT
[#21]
I was actually thinking about something along these lines last night and came up with an analogy that at least made sense to me. Perhaps it will make sense for y'all as well.
Y'all remember playing connect-the-dots, right? Neatly numbered dots when connected in order make a nifty little picture. It's not much fun beyond seven or eight years old. Okay.. imagine playing connect the dots without the numbers. One could still make a pretty picture though it might not be what picture was originally intended, but it's still something, right? Now imagine an imense field of dots without numbers, an infinity of dots. Imagine each dot is a point of knowledge; of universal, cosmic truth; of gnosis, if you will. Each and every religion is working with the same set of dots and connecting them in different ways, making different pictures. And not one of them, no not one, is using all the dots. Not one of them has every universal, cosmic truth covered. Some may use more than others, however. So, in a way they are all correct and complete in and of themselves, but incomplete in the field of possiblity. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 3:00:22 PM EDT
[#22]
And there is, yet again, another interesting way of looking at it. See, I knew this forum wasn't just used by a bunch of Self Rightous types, we've got some truly free thinkers that step outside of the box from time to time here as well. 
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Posted: 8/18/2005 3:12:15 PM EDT
[#23]
You should take the works of Robert A. Heinlein with a grain of salt.
That grain of salt would be about the size of your fist. Heinlein's books are good reading, but not exactly the best guide to life. CJ |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 5:52:05 PM EDT
[#24]
I've made several posts along these lines....
There are thousands of religions. Every member of each religion is fairly certain that they are "right" They can't all be right, or can they? There is no doubt in my mind that there is not any one "right" religion. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 6:28:44 PM EDT
[#25]
You are right. They can all be wrong, but they can't all be right. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 6:36:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Or could it be that religion is simply an invention of an animal called "man" that evolved on the planet Earth some few million years ago? What religion is a cat or a dog. Which god does apes follow. Do other animals even know or care about a "god". So many questions.
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Posted: 8/18/2005 6:36:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Why not? Serious question. Why can't they all be right? Dang.... You're limiting your thinking, and for what? |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 6:40:39 PM EDT
[#28]
If you pick a path or grow up following a path and you follow it correctly then why can't you end up with the outcome of that path? In that way all religions are right, are they not. I just have a hard time believing that with some many different peoples and so many worldviews that only one religion out of all of them can be the right one for everyone. I know that the bible says that IT is the only way, but like I've said, if I started a religion I'd want everyone to think that my way was the only way too. It's only good business to direct people to what you're selling.
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Posted: 8/18/2005 6:55:44 PM EDT
[#29]
I've explained this before but I'll do it again. Religions rise out of individual peoples for a reason. Each of them does, indeed, express those universal, cosmic truths but they express them to those people at that time and in that place. At each of their hearts, every religion expresses the same ideas but each expression is tailored to it's.. audience, for lack of a better word. They express them in a way in which those people can not only understand, but identify with which is actually the more important of the two. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 7:01:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Right Hydgirl, the "Truth" is tweeked to fit the Worldview of the people that accept it. LOL, I thought I just said that?
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Posted: 8/21/2005 5:31:27 AM EDT
[#32]
How does that joke go? Something along the lines of:
Anyway, I guess what I'm thinking of, is isn't it equally likely that all religions are wrong? |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:36:29 AM EDT
[#33]
All religions may have some truths to them, and many have some serious mis-truths.
But in no way are they all right. Lesbians as priests is just one example of what is wrong with some religions. Sgatr15 |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 9:00:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Please explain to me why non-believers, (almost always liberals), suggest that believers are not free thinkers? I can't prove a lot of what I believe, but science, most assuredly, cannot disprove what I believe.
The best potential explanation I have heard for the very question of this thread was from a Religious Studies professor whom I respect. He suggested that humans essentially began existence in the same location. As we as humans grew, developed, and branched out from that starting point, perhaps we are all just reflecting back, with different perspectives, on that point and the original beliefs we had. I don't have the definitive answer. But neither does anybody else. I know what I believe, and without being self-righteous, I believe my beliefs are right. Back to this free thinker notion, I believe the Bible lends itself a great deal of latitude for imagination. Blake |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 9:05:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Because it is THEY that are actually closed minded, not you. I say this because I believe in the power of prayer and have seen the posiutive affects of such. Since they refuse to pray they never see the results of prayer, so they dismiss what you believe even though it is THEY that are unwilling to do the footwork. Sgat1r5 |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 12:01:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Because most religions make claims that, if true, would negate the truthfulness of other religions. Example: Islam claims that Christ didn't die on the cross. If that's true, then Christianity is FALSE. By even asking me these questions, you seem to, in effect, affirm this. After all, you seem to be implying that my belief that all religions cannot be right (which is an out working of my Christianity) is wrong. Maybe you could explain to me how they could all be true?
I do limit my thinking. I limit it to logical thinking. I do this because I want to discover truth. If you would like, I can go into more detail about the mechanics of the truth vs. relativism debate, and why relativism ultimately defeats itself. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 12:23:58 PM EDT
[#37]
I have always thought the term was kinda funny. You see, most who refer to themselves as "free-thinkers" are atheists. They think they arrived at their position because they were open-minded individuals who rationally weighed the evidence, and then freely chose atheism over theism. YET, they also believe (if they believe in naturalistic evolution, that is) that their thinking and actions are nothing more than the FIXED reactions of the atoms in their brains that are governed by the Laws of Chemistry and Physics. So, in effect, they sort of hold their reasoning abilities up high in the one hand, and with the other a worldview that denies any good reason to think that they're even able to reason. The logical outworking of their worldview also denies their own existence as they know it, and, ultimately, that anything matters. Interesting . . . Anyway, I am sure someone will be along promptly to give you a more flattering, positive description that isn't so much at odds their presuppositions. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 2:20:19 PM EDT
[#38]
To what detriment to the "offended" religion? None. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 3:20:22 PM EDT
[#39]
I am not sure if I'm reading you correctly. By "offended" do you mean "false"? If that's the case then I half-way agree with you. It may not be detrimental to the "offended" religion in the sense that the false religion may still be around and practiced, but the "offended" religion would still be false nonetheless. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 3:41:06 PM EDT
[#40]
+1, The premise isn't even an accepted hypothesis in most accredited science |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 4:43:59 PM EDT
[#41]
By offended I mean slighted. What difference does it make if the Muslims think the Christians are wrong and vice versa? Neither is dimished, unless you feel like you need to be "right" |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 4:51:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Doesn't really have anything to do with detrimental effects. If I am reading Mr. H correct he stating why they cannot all be correct. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 5:16:25 PM EDT
[#43]
It doesn't really make any difference at all. I am not talking about what anyone thinks, or what is defensible-- I am talking about the truth claims of the various religions, and how all cannot be correct. That is what we are talking about, is it not? We must not be on the same page.
What I "feel" has no bearing on objective truth. If Islam is correct when it states that Jesus did not die on the cross, then Christianity is surely false. That would be the case whether I was a Christian or not. Remember, we are talking objective truths here. I am curious, would you mind giving me you definition of "truth"? Just so I can understand where you are coming from. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 5:21:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Exactly. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 7:37:06 PM EDT
[#45]
<sigh>
there is nothing new under the sun. all that is now is what has been before. This is not a new idea, and "science" (who's that? science is not sentient being) has not proven anything of the sort. The old idea of all religions being right has been decidedly defeated in the past. What scientists have a lot of proof for, is that there are at least 10 dimensions. Four that we have direct access to (3 dimensions of space, 1 of time) and six that are closed in on themselves in "loops" that are smaller than the size of an electron that we don't have access to. Funny thing, a jewish rabbi in the 5th century (500AD) named Mochmonodes (sp?) stated that there were only 10 dimension, because there were ten "let there be" statements by God recorded in Genesis. Perhaps Adam and Eve in their original unfallen state existed and had access to all ten, but after sin, they were limited to the 4 we know commonly know, and perhaps the other six is where angelic beings and heaven exists? we'll know someday. But all ideas are not equal. All you have to do to verify that is look at the outcomes of the ideas in question. the consequences of those ideas are not the same. Good ideas have good consequences, bad ideas have bad consequences. Islam, Buddhism, etc, all produce bad results. Therefore they are bad ideas. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:14:45 PM EDT
[#46]
Jhn 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. That's good enough for me. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:22:00 PM EDT
[#47]
A good starting point. Paul admonished Timothy to "always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in you". John 3:16 alone is not enough to defend your faith from those that would seek to convince you otherwise, including the devil. If that were all that were needed, that's all there would be. Instead we have the wealth of scripture, and there is not an argument or idea against the christian belief system that has not been anticipated and successfuly dealt with in scripture. In other words, arm yourself well, for otherwise, you look like food. And if you look like food, you will be eaten. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:26:23 PM EDT
[#48]
If man evolved, then every part about him evolved, right? Men have a need for religion. What evolutionary purpose does this false (supposedly) need have? And since it is a false need, since there is no God (I'm speaking as an evolutionist here), does that mean the universe lies to us? gives us needs that are false? What other needs do we have that are actually false and we don't know about it yet? Food? why don't you try that one for a bit and give us a report. Yours is not a very well reasoned position. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 9:00:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Eph 6:11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Don't worry I try to stay as close to God's word as I can. Never underestimate the enemy, he has had thousands of years of experience. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:13:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Truth, in the case of religion (and religion only), is clearly in the eye of the beholder. I know you disagree with that....you're too wrapped around the axle to think otherwise. |
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