Probably going to take some heat for this, but I'm tired of atheist signs, billboards, "support groups", and speakers.

What do you guys think of this trend?

Kinda stupid to define your life by what you don't believe in/do.

I make it a point to not put it out there that I don't eat shellfish.

If you really wanted to discuss this, you could make a comment in the Resident Who Complained About Canonsburg Nativity or Atheists Ads on Buses threads in GD.  By starting a post in the Religion forum about atheism, you've shown that you just want a circlejerk instead of actual discussion.

Meh, billboards and stuff make sense. People want others to do as they do. Like wanting more people to favor your political views.

edit: because IPhones do weird things with autocorrect.

Atheist churches? Public universities? :)

I think it's interesting that people are evangelizing a religion that offers... nothing.

In place of a system to support you, or prepare you for an afterlife, or even just help you live a BETTER life now, they offer nothing.

Sorta like if all the local stores who oppose Wal Marts were to run an ad campaign: "Don't shop there! Shop here! We don't have half the selection, and our prices are much higher!"

You're tired of other people voicing their opinion?

You don't like atheist support groups? How do you feel about alcohol support groups?

You don't have to go see atheist speakers if you don't want to.

I see the world becoming less and less religious. I think if anything, as much as you are sick of another non-religious view point, it's only going to get worse for you.

BTW, I've never heard of an atheist church. Atheist have as much right as Christians do to put up billboards. For every atheist billboard you see, I bet there are 1,000 pro-Christian billboards.

No less stupid then "defining your life" by any other belief set. Atheism is not a defined dogma and is just another form of religious expression. Some adherents don't believe in a higher power, others might, some people just don't want to participate in organized religion.  Often times, the label of Atheist is not one taken by the individual but rather one placed on them by somebody else who feels the need to pass judgment on their neighbor.

Freedom of Religion also means freedom FROM Religion. Religion comes from man, and is a means of controlling people.. your faith comes from your heart and helps you through lifes challenges. You ought make no assumption that someone who does not participate in a religion has no faith. You may feel entitled to rub your beliefs in the face of others since its Christmas time and, maybe you are up to a point, but no more entitled than somebody that doesn't share your beliefs.

It may just be a matter of perspective, but I find its rarely the non-believer who wears it on his sleeve.

My best guess is that they want to make it known to people that are already atheists that it's OK to be that way...their not alone, etc. I too can not see a real reason why they would want to recruit members other then human nature which causes humans to like to be in groups with people that feel the same way. Christians blame it on the bible and spreading the word, but it's much deeper then that...it goes all the way to their DNA.

From attending a few of these groups for the lulz, it pretty much boils down to one of two types of group:

How can we best be intolerant of religion, and remove every single reference to it from everything, because we like to find things to feel offended about, and/or;

A group of people getting together, tying to pep each other up about their 'non belief,' and convince themselves en mass that yes, they have made the right choice, an no, the God that they profess that they don't believe in is not going to punish them for it.

It's basically the atheist version of the public prayer that Jesus was talking about. They get together in groups in order to pat each other on the back and reassure one another that it's okay to not believe in god.

As to the atheist who like to try and convert people, I have no idea where those marching orders come from. Maybe there's hidden messages in Dawkins or something.

There are plenty of Christians that believe Islam is wrong and picket Mosques and voice their opinions that it is evil, and there are people who veiw most all religions as evil or at least harmful, myself included, and believe the world would be better without any of them. (I don't try to convince people of it, but its how I feel)

I haven't seen any of the adds or billboards myself, but I'm kind of glad someone is voicing their oppinion, I've seen many "Jesus Saves" and the black billboards with the white block writing qoutes from God. Why is it OK to have that shoved down my throat but not the other way?

ok, then how many single references to your god would you like? it honestly seems more that religion as an institution is intolerant of those that opt-out than the other way around.

I don't care if there's a single one, personally. I'm glad that you take the time out of your day to make presumptions about 'my God,' however.

I don't believe in the Christian God. I am not, nor have I ever professed to be Christian. However, I simply could not care less about the words 'In God We Trust' on U.S. currency, the fact that several towns in this area begin their commission meetings with prayer time, or that there are giant tablets in front of the county courthouse one town over that have the Ten Commandments inscribed on them.

I do, however, take issue with the rabid intolerance of certain atheists and atheist groups toward anything to do with religion, most especially where religion and government have historically intermingled in matters of symbolism.

Do I want to live under some sort of Christian or other religious theocracy? No, I do not. But I also do not consider references to God or various religious symbols to be the mark of a theocracy. The county courthouse was not the seat of a theocracy 100 years ago when those tablets were put out there, and it is no closer to being one now.

I can't stand the incessant proselytizing of some Christians who don't get the idea that some people don't want to be converted. Likewise, I also can't stomach the ignorant bleating of some atheists, who will tell me out of one side of their mouth that religion is the cause of so much ill in the world, and atheism is the answer, yet they go on to spit intolerant venom and vitriol about it from the other side. Some people are simply walking around all day, looking to be offended. Some of these people are furthermore atheists.

I'm not tired of people voicing their beliefs, but I consider "preaching" a mostly nihilist view futile.

Not really, one reason I'm an atheist is to avoid meeting up once a week and sharing homogeneous beliefs. Alcohol support groups are a bit different, instead of sharing beliefs, the members better themselves.

No, it doesn't bother me at all. I'm essentially a macro-nihilist.

I consider the billboards to essentially be promoting nothing. I think of it as people putting up blank billboards.

You're spot on there. I'm wondering why other atheists/agnostics make a push for their beliefs. I think that they are for the most part pushing a belief that's founded on the idea of nothing, that is no grand meaning of life, nothing after life, and no reason to carry on in the macro sense

Do you guys think it's mostly the existentialists among us pushing it, or do you think it's the "scientific" atheist groups pushing it? I think it's a bit of both. I don't think a single nihilist atheist is pushing their agenda forward.

I'm not sure which version might be pushing it more. I'm trying to think of how to define what I have seen in these atheist 'groups.' See, atheism is a curious thing. Technically it shouldn't even be a belief founded on nothing. It ought to simply be a lack of belief altogether. Instead of, 'I believe there is no God,' you'd be aiming for, 'I don't believe in God/anything higher.' In most of these groups that I have peeked into, there seem to be a fair number that, rather than having nothing to believe in, are trying to bolster each others belief in nothing. Does that make sense at all?

I think that they really do want reassurance that they've chosen wisely. As another poster replied, some of these billboards and conversion tactics do seem to be only a way of saying 'You're not alone,' and 'It's okay to be this way.'

I'm no atheist. However, I'd be lying if I did not admit to having doubts about my faith. These signs and billboards are not, and can not be effective. I clearly see what they say and they are not sufficient to "make me think". I've already thought about it. That's long in the past.

If, for example, one wanted to try to convert me by planting a seed, it would have to be much more complex than a simple billboard. Due, mostly to space and time requirements. Maybe a clear and concise drawing of parallels between the various faiths and practices, would be enough. But, as I mentioned, been there, done that. Most thinking people have.

I completely agree.

If you don't believe in anything. How does seeing a Christmas tree offend you? Its just like the punks i went to high school with, that wouldn't stand for the national anthem or pledge because it had God in it. Just trying to cause tension I'd say.

Now wrap your mind around this...

Everyone says that Christians are making a big deal about that masque they were trying to build by ground zero.

What would they say if we build a giant cross at Hiroshima's ground zero. Or put a cross in place of that giant statue of Saddam Hussein after we tore it down, or in the place of every masque we destroyed. They'd be singing a different tune then.

I don't see the motivation of atheists to preach none belief either. Most I've met are more likely to feed you their disbelief than any christian is to share their faith. Why would some one want to replace HOPE, even if you don't believe in it, with the thought of an empty hopeless reality with no purpose.

I have to be honest with you. If I got up every morning thinking that my life was meaning less and after was nothingness, I wouldn't see much of a point to life. Kind of like the would children of men thing, that's a gray dreary would to live in.

Not something I'd waste my time or money on.  Being an atheist (or, more accurately, an agnostic with atheistic tendencies) is completely unimportant to my daily life.  I do find it odd that some feel so strongly about it.

But atheists are a target of hatred an ridicule to many, so I do understand the desire/need to band together in a group to fight for political rights.  

I do NOT understnad why this bother you, any more than any other beleif system you do not embrace.

I get a little annoyed at all the cutsie (or downright stupid) church signs and their little platitudes, but honestly, it rarely affects more than 10 seconds.

I think it's kinda stupid.  While I can understand how some atheists might feel alone, and look for people similar to themselves, I don't really see what the point could be for a group focused around a lack of something.

what is it they are lacking ? stories about where people come from,believing in something ... etc...?

its not that i dont believe in god, i just dont believe in religion stories.
i was in ccd as a child,did confirmation and all.  i was just going through the motions from probably since i found out santa wasnt real

Atheism  has no unified doctrine for evangelizing, or fellowship; and would gawk at the idea of worship. Ergo, I highly doubt an Atheist church would ever exist.

Atheist interest groups however, are very much alive, as they are the ones that will oftentimes fund debates against organized religious groups. We have such debates on campus here all the time.

As far as what Atheism provides, it certainly does not provide the warm fuzzy feeling that most other religions provide. It offers a rather bleak view of the universe, of man, and of death/afterlife. But that's not the point is it? To an atheist, all those warm feelings that other religions offer is nothing but a carrot that attracts you to the said religion. Atheism is based on enlightenment thought, on the belief in logic and science rather than doctrine and dogma.

Atheists that go out of their way starting support groups and atheist churches are IMHO closet-believers. Why meet, to prove your theory on why you don't believe?



The way I look at it, I don't believe in it, and I don't care. So I spend my time doing stuff I like, like shooting.

Well, if you're someone like Richard Dawkins, and you get pissed off at the very idea of religion (especially Christianity), then you spend time and effort creating an organization that seeks to route out religion.

Also, Atheism is not the belief in nothing- that would be apathy.

Religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc are a positive assertion that God exists.
Atheism is the negative assertion that God does not exist.

There is a difference, but that's another debate all together.

Also, Atheism is not the belief in nothing- that would be apathy. Nihilism.

Apathy is;

1. absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.
2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.

I stand corrected.

well...I have to clarify terms 'agnostic' and 'atheist'.

Agnostic- one who believed at one time in deity but does not now or has no knowledge of anything religious.

Atheist- does not nor ever believed in deity

This is just a simple explanation in the difference between them. It is a belief but I have not heard of churches being run under this assumption as there would be no point. There are certain sects of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism, that do not have a belief in or state that it is too hard to follow spiritually.

This trend is based on Humanism and is a means of watering down and separating people from God and the values of their church. This also was a means that all and I mean ALL communist and fascist regimes infiltrated the people. Schools, Churches, and Business were targets first and the family attack was paramount. Once you gain a foothold in schools and churches and family values are attacked from all fronts, then you can separate family members starting with the youth. (This is all documented in many published books on socialism and ringing about a social revolution) I can give you bibliography and authors if you wish.

I don’t know where your definitions came from, but I don’t agree with them.

Agnostics are commonly understood to be those who admit they don’t know whether there are gods.  They haven’t been convinced, but aren’t willing, for whatever reason, to take a stand that no gods exist.  
They may never have believed.  
They may have studied the subject extensively.  

Atheists state that there are no gods, period.  They may have believed at one time (I did when I was a small child), but have come to the conclusion that all gods are mythical.  
Many Atheists, myself included, have studied religion extensively and for decades.  

If I may . . .

I believe that the motivation is two-fold.  

First, it is to let other non-believers understand that there are others like them.  Second, it also serves to help others see the light, as it were.

Just my two cents.  I hope I haven't stepped on any toes on my first venture into this forum.

You imply here that atheism is inherently evil- I beg you to reconsider this stance. The common misconception is that without God, there is no basis for morality; ergo, atheists are necessarily immoral. This is false, as there are numerous approaches to derive morality without God such as a Kant-ian, or Hume-ian view. I personally appreciate the value of the church in being a significant charitable force in the last century.

Atheism is not an attack- we are not a proselytizing "religion." We have a view that Churches are preaching things that we hold to be incorrect, and believe that this incorrect teaching has numerous ramifications in our everyday life. (Debate on teaching evolution, ban on embryonic stem cell research just to name a few). Atheists also have nothing to do with attacking family values or family ties; I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. To summarily categorize atheists into "communists and fascists" is extremely offensive to me.

However, I will quote Marx on this one in saying many atheists believe that religion is the opium of the people. Strictly speaking, I view churches/organized religion as an archaic and outdated political force.

Japle-  None have to agree with me. I am using a textbook definition from Websters. These can be looked up by anyone so I have no need to defend them in any way.  They just exist.  That way I can write here on common ground. I am not using a religious text but a humanistic one. That is where the definitions came from. You are welcome to agree or disagree as you wish. Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists. In a more specific sense, theism refers to a doctrine concerning the nature of a monotheistic God and God's relationship to the universe. Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe. Atheism then is the opposing force or belief.

NightHawkIX-  As for implying that atheism is evil, I am not. I would quote biblical passages and quote persons and prophets over the years but chose to comment in this way. Anyone, who advocates that religious beliefs; a belief in a God are a waste of time or wrong in anyway, advocate separation of families, and incorporates political humanism into churches. is evil. Family, a personal relationship with your creator, a place free of government intrusion to worship is part of our constitutional right. I do not ridicule any of you for what you do or do not believe and I expect and require everyone else do the same. That is essentially what the founders of this country believed and I accept that as Christ did. If a church is advertising then so should a mosque or a synagogue. Atheists, who attack churches and their members, then become the opposition. If you don't believe there is a God, that is one thing. If you set yourself to diametrically oppose Church members; that is where the evil comes in.

I don't push my personal beliefs on you and you should not push them on me. If when I pray openly you want a moment of silence go ahead.

As a christian and a patriot, I defend your right to believe as you wish and to worship as your heart dictates, to the death. This, is the essence of being a christian and an American. Evil exists in our hearts and minds and we must master this. HOW you do it is your business. Personally, I do not believe Christ was born on December 25. Shepherds watching their flocks can only be done during the spring in Israel so I am guessing maybe more like April. I have celebrated the spirit and idea of Christmas and will continue to do so.

(note; this is my personal belief about Christmas and I don't need any crap over it- argue that elsewhere.)

I gotta agree... asking for help about an atheist question, in a religion thread is sort of like asking for help picking a good single malt Scotch in a temperance thread.  You are in the wrong spot because by definition, atheism is NOT religion, and this is a religion thread.  You want the non-religious thread.

@Goatherder

Many scholars believe Christ was most likely born sometime in March/April. I believe the settled date of Dec25 is based on an old notion that saints and such are only born on certain calendar cycles.

As far as atheism attacking faith, only certain atheists do so; these are what I would classify as militant atheists. However, in attacking faith, I doubt very much that they are attacking family ties or your freedom of practice in one broad stroke. Militant atheists (of which I am NOT) believe that religion slows down the progress of humanity and is the reason for a lot of strife and conflict. They do believe in family values as much as you or any good Christian does I suspect, and perhaps ironically,  respect freedom of worship as a basic human freedom.

I do believe the ones that made the signs and protests are the militant ones you mentioned and they are referred to n the initial thread. This is what we are referring to.

Does this mean that the Christians who put up signs for their church, and those that protest outside of Planned Parenthood are militant Christians?

Atheists like to spread their word for the same reasons religious people do, and to me it seems the most viable and tolerant option. The numbers don't lie, it's just a mater of time.

Don't believe it? Look at Europe. Population numbers don't lie.

I find it interesting that my professed faith in Jesus Christ is so offensive to an atheist and I am labled as intollerant by homosexual and opposing religons how ever I do not display the anger or venom when dicussing the topic of the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

Organized disbelief is an oxymoron.

People conveniently forget that our society is truly great because Judeo-Christian values allowed it to become great.  No other religion, or the absence of one, comes close.

Nope, that's an apostate. An agnostic does not take a position. There may or may not be a God.

No, it's not really and oxymoron



If anything organized belief is an oxymoron. There are how many religions in the world? Doesn't look very organized to me.



And for the 2nd part of your post, people conveniently forget that these same values are keeping us from getting any better.



 

Organized disbelief by in large does not exist. Atheism remains a very personal belief.

It's also pretty convenient to forget that organized religion resulted in tens of millions of deaths over the centuries, that it stalled the progress of science throughout the ages and continues to, and persecuted people from Galileo to the Salem "Witches" to the Inquisition.
Religion (in the form of Western Christianity) has only become tolerant within the last century or so. Islam, Right Judaism, and Christianity in the African/South-East Asian continents are still very intolerant and a constant source of tension and conflict. If nothing else, this is why I find it hard to personally subscribe to organized religion.

For some reason, this thread brought this to mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair

If you had read all of the following statements I stated that the definitions are textbook...meaning I took them directly from books such as Webster's and others. So I do not take credit for any of the definitions. Argue with them....

In your own ideas you are part right but in the truth of God His Word says, Satan leads or deceives people into false faiths or ideas. Only one true God. He made a simple plan for salvation. Believe in His Son, Jesus.
Revelation 12:8-9  
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
1 Corinthians 14:32-33  
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Isn't half the fun of being atheist to stay home on Sundays?  Do you need help to be a better atheist?

Sounds like another wacky church to me.

false, that is a subset of atheism know as strong atheism.



The majority of atheists are weak atheists and only say that they lack belief in God.



I'm an atheist.  On the subject of God's actual physical existence, I'm an agnostic.