I’ve had a lot of bad things going on in my life over the past few years, and really bad stuff in the past few months. So I’ve been doing a lot of soul searching, looking into the Bible, Islam and Atheism/Agnosticism. I keep finding things I like and some I don’t, these are just a few about the Bible that really bother me and I haven’t found quality, if any, answers on the internet. I’m not trying to be converted one way or the other, but getting better understanding of these few troubling (at least for me) topics would help me a lot along my path.


Genesis 1:1 - In THE beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. If this is “the beginning” this would make God approximately 6 thousand years old based on New Earth Creationism, 14.6 billion on Old Earth. I find it difficult to believe the very first verse in the Bible/Torah contradicts the fact that God is timeless and has always been and will always be. I’m sure some can say the Bible is referencing the beginning of the physical universe, but this can only be an assumption. However, if this was the case, why did he wait for a presumably infinite amount of time before creating everything only 6k/14.6b years ago?

How could God build a universe so vast and complex that He would have to rest after words?
It says REST, I do not take this to mean sit back and admire. It means a pause for recovery after physical exertion. I just don’t understand this.  

God sacrificed His son for our benefit, and after 3 days He resurrected Him. I’m sure I have to be missing something here but IMHO 3 days does not seem like much of a sacrifice to me.

Would God allow Humans to go extinct? I’m not asking about the rapture or Armageddon. I’m asking about non-religious existential risk. This is probably the most important one for me. It’s kind of a deal breaker if our faith in God means we shouldn’t worry about and plan for an extinction level event, and the good people from the B612 foundation are just wasting their time. You can ask an atheist what if he’s wrong and it will only effect him, but if God fearing men are wrong and it does happen, then I think the outcome is a much different story.  

One could argue that some of these discrepancies arose from the difficulties of translating the Bible from one language to another. However, if God created all (but one) languages at the Tower of Babble, I would think that He would have made them so that His perfect book and His true word would not be lost in translation, but would be a seamless transition.


Thanks in advance for all answers and please be respectful. I would like some good answers and not see it locked on page 1.

Here's my best guess:
http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=823716

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Gen 2:2-3

Of course I was not there but one thing the Bible makes clear...God does not need rest like we think of rest.
God rested not because he was tired but because Creation was complete...he had finished his work.
He wasn't physically tired.... his work was simply done.

God did not just sacrifice His Son...He sacrificed Himself. Its the whole Trinity thing.

While your thinking, wrap your mind around this.
If the Bible is true...the same Creator who simply spoke words to create all of creation from the star VY Canis Majoris; a red hypergiant star calculated in size at more than 2,100 times the size of the Sun...... to the smallest nanobe one billionth of a meter in size....the same Creator, loved rebellious sinners so much that he became a man and suffered in our place...paid for our sins so that we might be called the children of God!

And No, you wont find a good explanation for that in any text book or web-forum.
All of history is bookended by God...He was before time and will be there after time.
" I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.Rev 1:8"
"The Almighty"........... means he's pretty powerful.

I highly recommend that you read CS Lewis....His thinking is right up your alley and I think you will find him a very interesting read.
PM and let me know if you would like me to send you a few on me.

After the flood, he said he wouldn't do that again. I'm not sure he hasn't toyed with the meteorite idea now and then.
I would have done it long ago. But then I'm nowhere NEAR as forgiving.

Also, like T1NMAN pointed out, his work on creation was done. I don't know how else to put it. He was done. And it was good.
When you've been around since before 'time'...what does 'time' mean? Seriously, time may mean something to us, and other living things in creation, but that's only because time is our enemy, always ticking away our life. From the moment we're born we're starting to die. And only have a certain amount of time on this earth. But when you're forever, what's a billion years?

3 days of death, after being crucified and abused is a heck of an offering. It isn't one I would want to do. No matter how much I may deserve it, the blood of the lamb covered that for us. Wouldn't you say the blood of the only perfect, innocent (free of sin), person on the face of the earth, is one huge sacrifice? He went through all that, just so we don't get what we deserve.

Now, I'm NOT trying to be flip, or anything like that. Just trying to cut to the chase, since I fail on the flowery prose front.

I hope this helps.

You seem to be adding your OWN interpretation onto the words and then deciding that it does not make sense.  Perhaps you should try humbling yourself and opening up to other meanings.  God exists outside of time, so if Genesis 1:1 is referring to the beginning of time or the physical universe, it is not a contradiction.    

I think you are also missing the point of Genesis.  It is is not there to give us a scientific explanation of the details of the creation of the universe.  The big picture is to show that an all-powerful God, who needed nothing, created us.



God did not "have to rest".  First, God is pure spirit, he has no need to rest after exertion.  One possible explanation is that the word "rest" in English means something in the original language other than the meaning you have given it, .i.e. it means simply to stop doing something.  I rest my case.  

Another explanation is that God is often described in scripture in human terms so that we can relate to him better and wrap our little human minds around things.

Thanks everyone for yours answers and I look forward to reading more and thanks for the book offer, but I have several hundred books on my list to read as of now, so it'd be a while untill i got to em. I'm seeing what your saying about the Genisis questions

I think time as we know it is a limiting dimension imposed uniquely on our created universe. 2 Peter 3:8 is a popular reference for this: "8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." Although the context of that passage is for a different argument, I think the concept that our perception of time is unique to our plane of existence holds true for this discussion, too. So my point is that "the beginning" is not just referring to he creation of the physical universe but to the creation of our version of time, as well.

I think thats the answer I had been looking for to clear up that question, Thanks

First off my friend, the reason or reasons that you are going through some humanly percieved hard times either mentally, spiritually, or even physically in nature, could very well be due to a certain lifestyle or particular mindset that has been compelling you to do some things or act out inappropriatly in as far as what it is that the way that everyone who,''draws breath,'' should act and think as the way that God would have them to personally do so.

I would expect some of the,''bad stuff,'' that you have been going through, and are continuing to go through at the present may also have something to do with the fact that God Himself, may be and probably is personally calling on you right now in order that you know the truth about not only the way that things stand in your own personal life right now, but also to make a strong impression upon yourself as to the true realities of the Kingdom of God, and were in the world is it that you definitly fit in to all of this which encompasses everything in creation.

The whys and hows about how all of this takes place are things that God Himself has mandated for mankind to know about and fully understand since that time, or better yet interval of continum or at the starting point of creation that God personally choose to get all things working together for His and our own personal benifits, in other words, the big bang and so forth.

Now, please believe me when I tell you that things in my, yours, or anyone else's lives will only work well utillizing certain techniques that God has so graciously layed out for us in and through the christian Bible, but these things that God requires of us, for our own benifit really are not and should not be too difficult for anyone to understand in the sense that God has built into all of us with a normal mental facillities, a fully shaped and developed human conscience for starters.

Also God has given us the set aprt holy institution of matramony, or marrage for so many other purposes than for just a man, or a woman, to have the opportunity and legal benifit of merely playing house, if you get my meaning here.

At any rate though, you do have a God given right to know the truth, because by It, you will be set free from many a personal delemma in your own life first, and then with God's help and His personal guidance directed personally and quite uniquely, man with much love and patience toward you also,I would suspect that God who is fully equipped and quite eagerly able teach you about all things, will do just what His word, or the Bible says that He will do.

As far as you being able to understand some things about creation right now, and also maybe some other things that you have either personally read about or have heard someone talking about, i  really don't think that that may be a very good idea for you to do so right at the present because the questions that you may have right now about some things are trying to be discerned by you by your own understanding, that is physically or mentally either by the power of your own intellect, through formal or self-taught education, simply by the way you might feel about something, or through some other sources.

However, whatever you have learned by whatever means up to this time without being practically as well as functionally trained, mainly attempting to understand spiritual things by the way of witnessing some things, worldly education, or through have being connected to some prior certain circumstances that are not spiritual, even if purported by some to be spiritual by their own definitions of what being or understanding what the spiritual realm truly is. is, in there essence and by their defined natures and origins, are simply not going to be good enough for you, me, or anyone else who may be seeking the absolutes, such as truth, and, who is God really, if He even exists at all in our own personal lives and so forth.

And this will fully apply to anybody else to know what it is that they are up against, and especially where their own personal and real benifits in life come from, when it comes to having the rug, so to speak, yanked out from under us in life so far as the defined reasons why, and what to do about it spiritually first, and then in the physical realm also not from worldly trained behavior, but from oftentimes godly spiritual behavior that seems many times to run quite contrary in as far as what your own physical sense are trying to tell you what to do oftentimes?

And this also goes what to do and how to do it, in order to keep those things from happening because of a will to do those things or through what might come to us naturally, or not taking the proper steps according to God's word to ensure that especially when the chips are down, that we as individuals, again with God's help will walk by faith, and not by sight which is very important not only to understand fully what faith is, a substance, but also to execute our faith in a proficiant and realistic manner as the situations of life  will indeed arise in order to genuinly exercise it so that we as christians can achieve a victory concerning it, over something else that may or not be wrought on by God to train us and to make us stronger concerning it.

That is our faith.

There are in fact many ways that a man, or woman, can go at and after life as most of us percieve the general game-plan down here on earth.

As a matter of fact, and i'm almost sure that you also personally know, that we as members of the human race were actually born into this present world in which we live in now with much, if not all of this worldly information that is within us even now as adults as well as through all stages from which we have all developed.

We were not born into this world innocent babes, but human beings that are not yet able to understand what it is that is wrong with us, as someone should know that their is something wrong because of all of the discomfort and sickness that infants go through, not even being able until one point to communicate to another about, what is wrong and understand a world that if unprepaired is full of lack we here ther dosen't seem to be ant defined guarantees concerning it or us, not even concerning our very existances, right now in the stark reality of the present, or even concerning the next breath that we might draw in order to live and function.

And what about the lower forms of life, such as wild as well as domesticated animals that have been programmed from the beginning and down through time as we as humans have been to certain degree also, to act out in certain ways according to their and our own kinds about the proper ways interacting with others that might ensure our own safty, if not for the purpose of out-right survival, when we are confronted one with another, in our everyday lives?.

These lower forms of animanls and us as humans according to being programed to survive many times merely, if that is a good word to describe it here, by the way of a chemically induced physical impulse, or a series of electronic impulses through some sort of sensory stimulous only.

In other words, what makes us different than them?

Do you think as some might be anxious to argue, that some lower form of primate somehow and at some estaimated period in the ancient past has somehow made a quantum leap in most all areas of development though some supposed evolutionary process many purporting this or these processes to be in nature, much like a unlearned child learns to be proficient at deciphering educational flash cards, nature's way of somehow elevating humans over and above any other primate that we might still even see today even with our own eyes even though the odds of this actually occurring are at least in the millions, if not even trillions to one, at even having a chance at fully manifesting in such a manner as that?

Sticks and stones, many times like lesser primates than humans like chimpanzees in which we share a great deal of our own DNA genetic code with, having to reselect a simple tool for a simple task several times because of continuing to be in error concerning percived size and shape as per the rudimentary or basic tasks to be performed usually out of a simple brain stimulous concerning wanting something to eat, or to simply defend themselves against some sort of physical threat real or even many times only imagined, many times very simular to the way that we humans do when we feel alone even in a crowd, or insecure due to  changing circumstances.

And on the other hand also taking into account and consideration concerning oppossed to any other animal left on its own, not interferred with by people the exacting sciences that produce reusable and highly complicated systems like space shuttles, high tech medicine, and computer sciences, with awesome degrees of pure mathmatical calculation involved to make these and all the rest not only successful, but also financially viable ventures and mostly advanced at the present high rates of calculating improvements according to the technological advances are only accuratley achieveably by available now by artificial electronic means any more because of the complexities that man can no longer wrestle with merely with chalk and black-board or with the pen and ink of the old school ways and the means, used even just a few short years ago.

Especially with some of the God-taught things that I do know, I would rather think not, at least in not the totally ridiculous way that man has tryed to date to explain some of these things that is beginning by many more all the time to be quite ignorant according to the evidence all the way around.

Scientifically and otherwise, and its the otherwise of the politics and probably more importantly than that to some, the  pestigous  fellowships, grants, teniors, and generous salaries and awesome expense accounts suppossedly to facilitate  research projects, and huge benifits packages that are offered to the ones with this secular type of mindset and credentials and that tell quite a story about human development ,strictly according to what a man or woman is trying to come up with from a historical jig-saw puzzle with most all of the pieces of real information still not on the table to be examined in any shape or form, some accurate as to their own detail or meaning, and then some others, pure fabrication for outright profit from the ones who love and practice telling lies concerning just about anything in the so called scientific realm of possibility.

And I can assure anyone that real and lasting perfection cannot and will not ever be achieved by the utillization of the scientific method concerning itself and also concerning what the scientific method really is.

So then, how is it that we as human beings know what is the truth about God, spiritual matters being humanly applied into the physical world in which we all live and useing these things which we have learned for our own benifit as well as the benifit of everyone who we may come in contact with in the what we might percieve to be good , or even bad circumstances?

I would quess a good place to start is admitting that there is something definately going wrong right now in this world and that man left to his own initiative is not going to be able to fix it by himself, or herself.

Even if all of mankind, that is everyone, everywhere, were working together utillizing all of our modern-day collective power to affect any kind of positive change, and practically apply it in order to erect a perfect and utopian great society, as is slated by some world leaders currently pushing politically as well as economically quite forcfully right now to come to pass, a one world government, shortly is going to fall well short of the mark because there is only one God in this universe that is capable, first off of being a fully capable being in all seasons and quite exactly perfect, being able to know everything great and small all at once and in unison acording to God's grand purpose concerning everything.

Now, you might say how could this be, and with many other questions that you may be ernestly seeking for some real and truthful answers to at the present, or even for quite a long time now.

Question is though, what is your motivation for wanting to know and fully understand some of these things?

Just for the sake of knowing?

And also another thing?

How smart do you think that you really are about many things if you do not mind me asking you?

Do you think that you are smarter than me?

How much do you really think that raw intellegence has to do with understanding the matters of the spirit first, and then being able to apply spiritual wisdom to just about any situation that might come your way, wanted, and even in some instances not so anxious to recieve?

And if there is only One God amongst many false and made up by man only gods, then which One is real if a God or gods really exist and which one's are not?

How do or would you know right now?

What is it that you would be willing to personally sacrifice to know for sure concerning all of these things?

Quite a bit, even if it concerns changing many of the ways that you may have incorporated into your present lifestyle now?

Are you willing to grow up and put away some childish things and ideas?

How much God do you personally have on the inside of you without correctly acknowleging Him yet in a way that you both can understand and then relate to in a personal relationship between only you, and only Him?

What level of accuracy do you possess right now concerning if God even exists at all or has ever existed?

With God, that is if He exists, do you think that you could with no special training or eqiupment, say using a primative bow and arrows, strike the dead center of a target at a distant range, everytime with the projectiles made available to you and for your own choosing, have the ability to do this on a continuous basis untill after only the dead center of that target has completely worn out after quite some time from being struck in the same place consistantly and without fail until told to stop?

Do you believe that you could accomplish this or something like that at any time called on to do so, and would you expect that you would need to,''rest,'' afterwards?

What is that you feel like that you must do in order to know correctly about God, if He exists, and what is the truth about spiritual matters right now?

Something has to give in order for some other things to have to change does it not?

Thanks,

SAE

I think its safe to say I'm about 1000x more confused now.

As for the red highlighted above. I'm fairly sure its not that He's calling on me. He wasn't there for me when I called for Him, so I would doubt He changed his mind several years later.

BTW that was one of the longest replies I have ever scene, and I thank you for taking the time and compassion to help

Well thank you for saying so!

But still the fact remains that you are confused, but sometimes being confused is not such a bad thing either. God is however, I know for a fact quite interested in you. The reason that I know this is because of what God, through the form of Jesus Christ has done for me.

And it is a fact, if God will graciously show me the ropes,about Him, so to speak, then He (God) will definitley do this and even more for you, because of His nature which contains no human filler.

Do you understand this brother?

God is using us at this time, among some other things to show us through our ownselves, what it is that He isn't and by our own actions, what He will and what He will not do according to how He(God) will bless or represent us, or how He will not, again according to our own actions, and personal mindsets either toward Him, or against God's ways of doing things in accordance to His definitive plan for everyone apply His power into our lives based on free-will desisions from us.

Continually.

What do you think that God might have to accomplish concerning being called by Him, in order to first get your own mind right concerning Him, and then with compassion for you, start to push you out of your own comfort zone in order to get your undivided attention concerning Him?

You know, in a place where you can Both work together?

Can you fathom this and understand this?

Thanks,

SAE

Tell you what deadsynter, why don't you list out your personal reasons that you feel like that God is not dealing with you for whatever reason and to the degree of detail that suits you. There are some here that have been around quite a while here, myself included that would be happy to go over anything with you and about any aspect of God's Kingdom that you would like to discuss here in your thread.

As I see it right now, you are not wanting to know really any more or less than most other people want to know about how God operates and the all that usually goes along with that.

One thing that is for sure though, or at least in my opinion is that God, the real God, you know, the God behind door * 3, is about to do some business with you as far as i can tell, and that's a good thing and trust me on that one for sure!

So hang in here for a while and at least be willing to look at some issues concerning God, and get into the first things first catagory first about God down pat first, before jumping ahead and out of turn which can be a major cause for confusion concerning just about anything.

Some of these things take a certain degree of patience and staying pretty much in a state of being a humble soul toward some of this understanding which will probably surprise you at one point concerning how easy some of this stuff can be with the right kind of attitude and particular mindset about it.

Know what I mean?

Gotta run until tomorrow after church,but will be back soon.

Thanks,

SAE

I deal in facts, if the Divine word is in part flawed, its not the religion/God I'm looking for. And I'll examine another one and aonther one until I find one that "moves" me. And if no religion/God has my answers then, to me, ther probably in no creator

About 3 years ago, I really needed and truly wanted God to be in my life. So I started reading the Bible completly stopped doing all the wrong things I was doing, fasted, and asked God to be a part of my life and turn my life to be saved.
I got nothing and felt nothing

I understand that you deal in facts and so be that. In my opinion, and it has been my own personal experiance that there is nothing concerning the Kingdom of God that is flawed or exaggerated by any means.

If anything, the Kindom of God is more real, so far as life is concerned in the way that we as human being can percieve it through our own natural senses than we will ever know.

You, my friend are not the first person who ever had an ernest and real desire to seek God's face and didn't immediatley find Him.

There is no one who should make a mastake concerning how it is that we as people are to first approach God, and just as importantly what it is that we must do next.

And that next is to show God our most important need, and that is to attain salvation through Jesus Christ by first confessing this with our own mouths, and then after that making a public profession of our faith.

And this is key, our faith.

Now faith is the substance that we use to evidence the things that we hope for. Now, the Bible also states that without this substance, that is our faith, that it is impossible to please the Almighty.

Now, why do you think that this might be, or is, a requirement for God to introduce Himself into our very lives in this particular fashion?

Because God , if He exists is playing some kind of game with us?

The answer to that is no. What i personally believe what God is doing here under the circumstances according to the fallen nature of man, and yes we are in a fallen state, is attempting to contact us by a means of us first recognizing that we as humans have some issues that need to be delt with, that we as humans do not have the means to fix, or set aright in our own lives because we do not have the correct handle concerning the power to do so for ourselves.

Now, you say that you are a man of facts and statistics, a realist, and that's certainly fine by me as well as many others I'm sure.

So let's examine the facts for a moment, if you will.

It is a fact, that anything, and I mean anything, that man has at his own personal disposal right now, is not good enough to help us out of our own personal delemmas and distresses that can and will occurr during our lifetimes mainly concerning things that we are doing the wrong way attempting to achieve a desired affect, and not being able to because, as I stated before, we are going about things in the wrong fashion.

How is it that one, or even several wrong and mis-directed actions are going to somehow right a particular issue that we may be facing concerning anything?

So, if this is true to a certain extent in our own lives depending on the circumstances, then what gives about a person who percieves through his or her own senses, a seemingly perfect situation for them, and then operating under their own personal plan to have a major success concerning whatever that goal might be, and then not being able to do it, even after many attempts to get a desired result?

Does this sound about like what it was like for you when you to attempted sometime back to,''find God?''

Thanks,

SAE

Something to consider,
Thanks