I've heard lots of bad rumors about the 6.0L Powerstroke not being as good as the old 7.3L.  Been looking at Dodge's lately, too, but want to give Ford a chance.  

Anyone know where the 6.0L stands now as far as mpg, and more importantly, reliability in a 3/4 ton 4x4.  Have they figured the 6.0L out?

Any comments from folks who have owned both a Cummins and a Powerstroke?

Much appreciated,

coburn

Can't tell you about the ford, but i have a 05' Cummins with 14k miles on it and i love it and do not regret my choice at all.  I drove the 6.0 and it seemed to be quicker, but not as powerfull.

I can tell you about the Powerstroke because thats what I do for a living.......I build Powerstroke Diesel Engines @ International Diesel in huntsville, AL...........
Yes, at first we had problems with the 6.0L because of design issues with the injectors and the Common Rail fuel system......Plus out Suppliers who supplied the Injectors (Siemens) had major problems at their facility because it was a brand new startup and they had to work out their bugs.....Then we had a problem with the calibration parameters with our ECMs.............................BUT..............All of those Issues have been settled and we are manufacturing an AWESOME Diesel engine...........The 6.0L will DUST the old 7.3L all day long......The 7.3 was strong but the 6.0L is stronger, faster, and has more torque..........
We have to take a sample (1 engine per month) and run the DOGSHIT out of it for 50 hours......and I mean WIDE OPEN.........We do this in our DYNO (HOT TEST).....then we send the engine to the EPA in california for emmision testing............I have never seen an engine take so much abuse (Wide open for 50 hours) and take it like the Powerstroke............

Hope this helps.........
GhostCat

What do you think of the Duramax?

Quoted: What do you think of the Duramax?

Yeah, good question.  I never hear much about the Isuzu Duramax.

I have an 04 power stroke in an F350 4x4  I absolutely love this truck, I wouldnt trade it for a Dodge anyday the power and acceleration this truck has is unbelievable!

Quoted: I can tell you about the Powerstroke because thats what I do for a living.......I build Powerstroke Diesel Engines @ International Diesel in huntsville, AL........... Yes, at first we had problems with the 6.0L because of design issues with the injectors and the Common Rail fuel system......Plus out Suppliers who supplied the Injectors (Siemens) had major problems at their facility because it was a brand new startup and they had to work out their bugs.....Then we had a problem with the calibration parameters with our ECMs.............................BUT..............All of those Issues have been settled and we are manufacturing an AWESOME Diesel engine...........The 6.0L will DUST the old 7.3L all day long......The 7.3 was strong but the 6.0L is stronger, faster, and has more torque.......... We have to take a sample (1 engine per month) and run the DOGSHIT out of it for 50 hours......and I mean WIDE OPEN.........We do this in our DYNO (HOT TEST).....then we send the engine to the EPA in california for emmision testing............I have never seen an engine take so much abuse (Wide open for 50 hours) and take it like the Powerstroke............ Hope this helps......... GhostCat

That is great information, GhostCat.  I really do appreciate it.  

I got rid of my Cummins for my 05 F250 Powerstroke.  Yes, the Cummins is a good engine, but everything bolted to it is CRAP.  Dodge is riding on the reputation of the old 12 valve motors.  

I love my Powerstroke, and wouldn't trade it for anything out there now.  I've owned Chevy's, Dodges, and Toyota's.  I'm getting lower mileage than when I bought it but that is due to winter blend fuel.  During the summer, I was getting around 16mpg in heavy city driving.

Quoted: I have an 04 power stroke in an F350 4x4  I absolutely love this truck, I wouldnt trade it for a Dodge anyday the power and acceleration this truck has is unbelievable!

I have an 04 F250 and I feel the same way.

Here's my take on GM diesels.

My dad had a '95 with the 6.5.  Damn good motor, got 180K before heads blowing. Allison tranny is excellent-dad currently has '04 GMC with 8.1/Allison.

Duramax=supposed to be really good.

Cummins=loud, torquey, problematic, Dodge trannys don't hold worth a shit.

6L powerstroke=problem child.

Duramax sucks ass.  My grandfather's just went down with head problems this last week.  41k miles on the odo.

Quoted: Here's my take on GM diesels. My dad had a '95 with the 6.5.  Damn good motor, got 180K before heads blowing. Allison tranny is excellent-dad currently has '04 GMC with 8.1/Allison. Duramax=supposed to be really good. Cummins=loud, torquey, problematic, Dodge trannys don't hold worth a shit. 6L powerstroke=problem child.

Not on the 2005 and newer.  That might have been the case in 03'

I'd like to know if the 6.0 was such a problematic motor, why is Ford continuing to outsell the others.  I hardly believe that brand loyalty would override the motors logevity and reliability.

Quoted: Cummins=loud, torquey, problematic, 6L powerstroke=problem child.

Without specifics on what exactly you see as problematic and problem child-like, those 2 statements aren't any help.

as of 2004.5 cummins are not loud. they have remaped the the injection so it has preinjection to quiet it down


I wish mine sounded like the old ones. a diesel sould sound like one

Quoted: Quoted: Cummins=loud, torquey, problematic, 6L powerstroke=problem child. Without specifics on what exactly you see as problematic and problem child-like, those 2 statements aren't any help.

I'm sorry, all I know is that the Cummins is loud, and the transmissions can't hold up worth two shits and the 6L PS had problems when they introduced it.  

Ford/IH seems to have worked the bugs out of the 6.0PSD and everyone I know seems happy with theirs. You may get a bad one if you buy one but that is true of any engine. This is where the DEALER proves his worth or not. Service after the sale.

That being said ,I just bought an '06 Dodge 3500 Quad cab dually with the Cummins 610. My previous ride was an '01 Dodge 2500 CTD. The new engine is waaaay quieter and more powerful than it's predecessor. Making peak torque 610lbs/ft @1600rpm and with a very flat torque curve throughout the rpm range this engine makes lots of power very smoothly and consistently. It makes that power earlier and retains that power curve with less torque loss than the PSD or Duramax.This is my third CTD('91 185hp,'01 235hp,'06 325hp) and if it is as good an engine as the first two I'll be happy. Time will tell.

My choice would be Dodge,Ford , and a distant third GM. The Isuzu/Duramax has been a very reliable engine for a number of years but at significantly reduced HP/Torque levels. At 185to 235hp this engine would run forever given proper maintenance. At current power levels you can look for this engines life to suffer. They have lots of injector problems,clutch/flywheel(dual mass flywheel)problems and are very expensive to repair. With any of the engines increased HP/Torque ratings will affect engine life detrimentally.Some more so than others.

The CTD or Duramax have has one significant advantage over the PSD in my opinion. That is they are both it is an inline 6 engine. This means longer stroke which equates to better torque ratings without straining the engine to make it. An inline 6 engine has fewer moving parts so less opportunities to break.

I don't think that any of them are "BAD" but I do believe that some are better than others . I voted with my wallet and picked Dodge/Cummins.

Edited to correct obvious mis-information.

I had a 94 Ford with the 7.3 IDI turbo and really liked this motor.  I spent alot of time in a 02 Excursion with a chipped 7.3 PSD.  That motor was awesom and I could get 19.5 MPG on the highway.  I bought a 06 Ford F350 SD 4x4  with the 6.0 PSD and I love this truck.  It pulls with ease and I have gotten as high as 19.3 MPG with it.  I usually get 16.4 combined city/highway.  

I do have a question for anyone who may be able to answer it, when I let off the throttle, there is a high pitched noise that I have never heard on any motor befor.  I dirve trucks for a living and have driven many different diesels but have never heard this befor.  My dealer sucks and is very reluctant to give me information on anything.  This has been my only bitch of this purchase, the f'n dealer has been first class ass hats in both the service department and sales (of course only after the sale).

Sleepy717

Quoted: Ford/IH seems to have worked the bugs out of the 6.0PSD and everyone I know seems happy with theirs. You may get a bad one if you buy one but that is true of any engine. This is where the DEALER proves his worth or not. Service after the sale. That being said ,I just bought an '06 Dodge 3500 Quad cab dually with the Cummins 610. My previous ride was an '01 Dodge 2500 CTD. The new engine is waaaay quieter and more powerful than it's predecessor. Making peak torque 610lbs/ft @1600rpm and with a very flat torque curve throughout the rpm range this engine makes lots of power very smoothly and consistently. It makes that power earlier and retains that power curve with less torque loss than the PSD or Duramax.This is my third CTD('91 185hp,'01 235hp,'06 325hp) and if it is as good an engine as the first two I'll be happy. Time will tell. My choice would be Dodge,Ford , and a distant third GM. The Isuzu/Duramax has been a very reliable engine for a number of years but at significantly reduced HP/Torque levels. At 185to 235hp this engine would run forever given proper maintenance. At current power levels you can look for this engines life to suffer. They have lots of injector problems,clutch/flywheel(dual mass flywheel)problems and are very expensive to repair. With any of the engines increased HP/Torque ratings will affect engine life detrimentally.Some more so than others. The CTD or Duramax have one significant advantage over the PSD in my opinion. That is they are both inline 6 engines. This means longer stroke which equates to better torque ratings without straining the engine to make it. An inline 6 engine has fewer moving parts so less opportunities to break. I don't think that any of them are "BAD" but I do believe that some are better than others . I voted with my wallet and picked Dodge/Cummins.

You had me going.Have you ever actually SEEN the Duramax???

Quoted: Damn, ask a question about a peticular engine and you get the guy who builds them! This is one hell of a site.

Pretty cool, huh?

BTW, most everybody I know who has an '05 or '06 Powerstroke Super Duty Ford is extremely happy with it. Just the opposite for everybody I know who owns an '03 or '04.

The Ford Super Duty is one heck of a truck. It is the best available, IMHO. Having said that, the Dodge heavy pickups have come a long way and there isn't anything wrong with getting one, it just isn't *quite* as good as a Ford. The Cummins, however, is just as good as the 6.0L Powerstroke...perhaps even better overall (just my informed opinion).

My father has a Chevy Duramax and it is also a kick-ass diesel engine. All three (Powerstroke, Cummins, and Duramax) are excellent engines and you cannot go wrong with any one of them. However, I think the GM pickups (Chevy and GMC) are not as good as the Ford or Dodge, especially if you use the truck for working or towing all the time. I'm talking the trucks themselves, not the Duramaxes or Allision transmissions found in the GM trucks.

Quoted: I'm sorry, all I know is that the Cummins is loud, and the transmissions can't hold up worth two shits ...

You have old, outdated information, friend. The 2004+ Cummins' 5.9L Cummins engines are very quiet.

And the 2003.5+ 48re auto transmissions are holding up pretty well, too.

Supposedly Ford is switching to an all new 6.4L diesel for 07.

GM is staying with the DMax, and Dodge is staying with Cummins.

If the 6.0 is such a great engine, you would think that Ford would run it for more then 4 model years.

I personally wouldnt touch a 6.0 Powerstroke with a 10 foot pole, I have heard too many stories about engine and trans problems.

Quoted: The CTD or Duramax have one significant advantage over the PSD in my opinion. That is they are both inline 6 engines.

Stop sniffing the glue, amigo. Put the squeeze bottle down and slowly back away.

The Duramax was never, ever, ever an inline engine. It has always been a V-8.

Quoted: Supposedly Ford is switching to an all new 6.4L diesel for 07. GM is staying with the DMax, and Dodge is staying with Cummins. If the 6.0 is such a great engine, you would think that Ford would run it for more then 4 model years. I personally wouldnt touch a 6.0 Powerstroke with a 10 foot pole, I have heard too many stories about engine and trans problems.

2008 model year.

6.4L V-8 twin-turbo diesel

In an all-new Super Duty pickup

Quoted: Quoted: Blah blah blah.......The CTD or Duramax have one significant advantage ....blah blah blah You had me going.Have you ever actually SEEN the Duramax???

OOOPs, yes.

Quoted: The Duramax was never, ever, ever an inline engine. It has always been a V-8.

+1.

The Duramax is a 6.6 liter V-8.  It's predecessor was a 6.5 liter V-8.  It's predecessor was a 6.2 liter V-8.

My dad owned both the 6.2 and 6.5.

The Comeapart is a 5.9L inline 6.  

Quoted: Quoted: Supposedly Ford is switching to an all new 6.4L diesel for 07. GM is staying with the DMax, and Dodge is staying with Cummins. If the 6.0 is such a great engine, you would think that Ford would run it for more then 4 model years. I personally wouldnt touch a 6.0 Powerstroke with a 10 foot pole, I have heard too many stories about engine and trans problems. 2008 model year. 6.4L V-8 twin-turbo diesel In an all-new Super Duty pickup

Figured it was somthing close to that., All depends on what forum you read.

Hopefully IH will pull its head out of its ass on this motor, and do a common rail fuel system instead of that HEUI crap. That would eliminate about 60% of the problems that the powerstroke has ever had.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Supposedly Ford is switching to an all new 6.4L diesel for 07. GM is staying with the DMax, and Dodge is staying with Cummins. If the 6.0 is such a great engine, you would think that Ford would run it for more then 4 model years. I personally wouldnt touch a 6.0 Powerstroke with a 10 foot pole, I have heard too many stories about engine and trans problems. 2008 model year. 6.4L V-8 twin-turbo diesel In an all-new Super Duty pickup Figured it was somthing close to that., All depends on what forum you read. Hopefully IH will pull its head out of its ass on this motor, and do a common rail fuel system instead of that HEUI crap. That would eliminate about 60% of the problems that the powerstroke has ever had.

First of all other than the new motor and some minor body changes, the new superduty will remain unchanged.

Secondly, the reason they are switching to the newer motor is due to new emmisions requirements now, and in the future (2010 I think).

According to every article that I've read and my own personal expierences, the 6.0 will out-accelerate and out-tow the Cummuns.  I know, I've had both pulling the same 38' fifth wheel enclosed trailer up the same grade/hill.

Also, why is it if the 6.0 is such a "piece of crap", why is 99% of every service vehicle on the road ( i.e. tow trucks, ambulances, fire dept's, etc) Fords?  

I wouldn't touch the dodge even if they put a CAT in it.  The truck is made likeSHIT.

Quoted: Also, why is it if the 6.0 is such a "piece of crap", why is 99% of every service vehicle on the road ( i.e. tow trucks, ambulances, fire dept's, etc) Fords?   I wouldn't touch the dodge even if they put a CAT in it.  The truck is made likeSHIT.

I used to wonder the same thing.  It's 'cause they're CHEAP.  

Yes, the 6.0L is being replaced because of emissions requirements, not the early problems with it.

While it is altogether possible that a stock 6.0L will out-accelerate/pull a 5.9L Cummins, that's like saying vanilla tastes more like ice cream than chocolate.

They're both excellent engines in a pickup application.

I had a 2000 SD with 7.3ps in 2004 i bought the new 6.0ps the 04 was gone in 2 months, because I had constant tranny problems and when the tranny was working I only got about 12MPG.  I would have kept the 2000 forever if it had not deen destroyed by a garage fire.

Quoted: Quoted: Also, why is it if the 6.0 is such a "piece of crap", why is 99% of every service vehicle on the road ( i.e. tow trucks, ambulances, fire dept's, etc) Fords?   I wouldn't touch the dodge even if they put a CAT in it.  The truck is made likeSHIT. I used to wonder the same thing.  It's 'cause they're CHEAP.

Whats cheap? Ford? Hell no! Dodge is cheaper. My company uses Fords....because they run like the energizer bunny.

It has nothing to do with how cheap a vehicle is. Ford simply has a lot more options for diesel powered chassis then GM or Dodge.

The majority of diesel ambulances are Ford, because Ford is the only one that has a dual rear wheel van chassis with a diesel. The reason the majority of sevice truck are Ford, is because Ford is the only manufacturer with a 4x4 truck with a GVW as high as the F-550 has. Chevy has the C-4500 4x4, but they are much larger then the F-450, while still having the same GVW.

If GM would offer a C5500 sized truck with a pikcup cab and 4x4, or Dodge would offer a Ram5500 sized truck with a diesel and 4x4, you would start to see a lot of them used as service bodies.

I work on diesel pickups every day, the amount of non running, ir poor running Fords out number GM and Dodge 5-1. I don't know if it is because there are 5 times as many Fords on the road, or if there are 5 times as many Fords out of warrenty.

I would gladly own a 7.3 powered truck. They are not near as easy to work on as a Cummins, but they are better to work on then a GM. I would not own a 6.0, especcially if it was out of warrenty.

Just my humble opinion, not a bash, just stated what I have experienced.

<----- Laid off from IH Indpls plant for three years. Quality would go up if the OLD GUYS with more that 40yrs in would retire. Sorry for the hijack.

Quoted: Here's my take on GM diesels. My dad had a '95 with the 6.5.  Damn good motor, got 180K before heads blowing. Allison tranny is excellent-dad currently has '04 GMC with 8.1/Allison. Duramax=supposed to be really good. Cummins=loud, torquey, problematic, Dodge trannys don't hold worth a shit. 6L powerstroke=problem child.

If you only got 180k out of a diesel motor it sounds to me like it just ain't on par with a powerstoke or a cummins.

Here is a question though, how many american made diesel trucks are there?  The chevy uses an isuzu motor (foreign motor = foreign car to me), Dodge is owned by Mercedes (foreign owned = foreign car to me, irregardless of where it's made) and Ford.  Just my take on the whole diesel truck thing.  I don't think that buying a foreign vehicle is bad, just that if a similar american made vehicle of equal quality, is available at a comparable price that is what I am going to buy.

Quoted: I can tell you about the Powerstroke because thats what I do for a living.......I build Powerstroke Diesel Engines @ International Diesel in huntsville, AL........... Yes, at first we had problems with the 6.0L because of design issues with the injectors and the Common Rail fuel system......Plus out Suppliers who supplied the Injectors (Siemens) had major problems at their facility because it was a brand new startup and they had to work out their bugs.....Then we had a problem with the calibration parameters with our ECMs.............................BUT..............All of those Issues have been settled and we are manufacturing an AWESOME Diesel engine...........The 6.0L will DUST the old 7.3L all day long......The 7.3 was strong but the 6.0L is stronger, faster, and has more torque.......... We have to take a sample (1 engine per month) and run the DOGSHIT out of it for 50 hours......and I mean WIDE OPEN.........We do this in our DYNO (HOT TEST).....then we send the engine to the EPA in california for emmision testing............I have never seen an engine take so much abuse (Wide open for 50 hours) and take it like the Powerstroke............ Hope this helps......... GhostCat

Dude!

I work at a Ford Dealership, Work on powerstrokes everyday, is there any way you can provide me any info on the 6.4L. all my Factory reps are acting like its Top Secret and don't know a damn thing.

BTW that 4.5LV6 is a kickass little powerhouse. I have personally smoked all four tires on an LCF

Gary

Quoted: I work at a Ford Dealership, Work on powerstrokes everyday, is there any way you can provide me any info on the 6.4L. all my Factory reps are acting like its Top Secret and don't know a damn thing.

6.4L V-8 by IH (Navistar).

Twin-turbo.

Quoted: Quoted: I work at a Ford Dealership, Work on powerstrokes everyday, is there any way you can provide me any info on the 6.4L. all my Factory reps are acting like its Top Secret and don't know a damn thing. 6.4L V-8 by IH (Navistar). Twin-turbo.

This I know


would like a more in-depth as to components, diag, strategy........that kinda stuff.


Gary

Ghostcat,   Isn't it a small world.  I have a Ford PSD F-350 SRW on order since Jan. 10.  It came in last Wednesday.  I'll won't be able to pick it up until next Wednesday or Thursday.  I plan on bringing it to the RCRC meeting on Thursday at the USMC Reserve Center, hope you can make it.

We now have 3 club members who have just bought Ford PSD's, the other 2 are dually's and my SRW.  Another member bought a 3500 SRW Dodge with a Cummins.  All four trucks came and were ordered with 6 speed manuals.

We have another member who can't make up his mind between a Dodge or a Ford.  He wants the Ford truck, but isn't convinced the 6.0 is troublefree.

Come to the meeting Thursday and kill the doubt!

Thanks,

Merlin

Quoted: Can't tell you about the ford, but i have a 05' Cummins with 14k miles on it and i love it and do not regret my choice at all.  I drove the 6.0 and it seemed to be quicker, but not as powerfull.

What are you getting for milage?