Are you a hippie or want to explore various Japanese martial arts?

Steven Seagal does aikido.  Chuck Norris does Tae Kwon Do.

'Nuff said.

Tag.

Very evident in all of the Steven Segal movies. He redirects people all the time, mostly into walls, coolers, each other, etc. That's part of why I like those movies so much, seeing someone get swept aside and then as they pass they get slammed in the face/throat which makes them slap the floor real quick!




Wasn't Chuck Norris learning Jeet Kun Do too? (sp)

Better question then.  What do you do for a living and why do you think Aikido would be applicable?

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=113

If you are going to be dealing with people that arent going to offer you any real physical resistance then Aikido might be workable for you (depending greatly on your instructor and how the classes are taught).  

You might want to check into something like the ISR Matrix taught by Paul Sharp and Luis Gutierez (sp) (www.isrmatrix.org/)

some of Geoff Thompson's material (www.geoffthompson.com)

Maybe some of Hock's work (Hock

or some of the other programs ran through the Straight Blast Gym (SBG

Quoted: Quoted: Better question then.  What do you do for a living and why do you think Aikido would be applicable? I'm on a fairly high profile close protection detail, and knowing something about joint manipulation and redirection would work well when many of the boss' public venues are covered by the press.

A Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu style would be better, it is far more brutal and efficient.  

Think of it like this:  

Aikido, take guy attacking you and redirect and throw them.

Aikijujitsu, take guy attacking you, redirect them, BUT as you are throwing them you have applied joint lock and are busting their joints AS they are being thrown head first into the pavement, breaking their neck.

I am not knocking Aikido, Aikido is a descended from Daito Ryu Jujitsu.   Aikido's founder Ueshiba was a star pupil of Sokaku Takeda aka "Little Demon".   Ueshiba ran his school as a Aikijujitsu school until the 1940's when he had a moment of enlitenment.  His school became less brutal and more spiritual.

Sokaku Takeda on the other hand, was born to a famous samurai family, he pretty much trained in the Japanese war arts from the day he could walk.  He mastered his family's arts (Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu was one of them) before he was 18.   He was prodigy, he was lightning quick, strong, absolutely brutal.   A thief tried to rob him once, the thief was found implanted head first in a rice patty.  The police didn't know if his neck was snapped before he impacted head first or after.

One of the most important things is to make sure the class is being ran in a realistic manner. A class where the students always work with compliant training partners isnt really doing anything to get you ready for the real world.

Quoted:
If you are going to be dealing with people that arent going to offer you any real physical resistance then Aikido might be workable for you


And if you believe THAT, you're a fool too...........








Aikido, when taught PROPERLY, is a very powerful, and potentially devastating martial art....

Go to a few schools....  Watch a few sessions......  You'll notice very quickly which take it seriously, and which are taught by granola eating, new-age flakes....

I took it years ago, before my knees decided they didn't want me to......


Got my ass tossed around MANY times......    Broken bones are VERY easy to be had, if not careful.


Anyone who says it's a soft art, either has never seen/been taught it correctly, or doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Knowing what you do, it has a good bit of potential.  In your line of work, the idea isn't to stick around, and go 10 rounds.  

Don't take my word for it, or anyone else's ...  Give it a try....  Decide for yourself....



And steven segal is an attention whore, blow hard....  He's FAR from what a good Aikidoka should be.

If you want to learn how to fight, you want a school that teaches modern shootfighting/grappling or Krav Maga, preferably both.  All the fancy asian crap in the world isnt even a fair match against the fighting styles found in the octagon,not gonna throw too many people around with their momentum when theyve stradled your torso and are beating your face.  Likewise, youre not going ot the ground if you apply the fundamentals of Krav Maga, even women can induce a flurry of strikes to bring a 300 lb man to his knees in seconds before he has a chance to tackle and rape her.

Quoted: Quoted: If you are going to be dealing with people that arent going to offer you any real physical resistance then Aikido might be workable for you And if you believe THAT, you're a fool too........... Aikido, when taught PROPERLY, is a very powerful, and potentially devastating martial art.... Go to a few schools....  Watch a few sessions......  You'll notice very quickly which take it seriously, and which are taught by granola eating, new-age flakes.... I took it years ago, before my knees decided they didn't want me to...... Got my ass tossed around MANY times......    Broken bones are VERY easy to be had, if not careful. Anyone who says it's a soft art, either has never seen/been taught it correctly, or doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Knowing what you do, it has a good bit of potential.  In your line of work, the idea isn't to stick around, and go 10 rounds.   Don't take my word for it, or anyone else's ...  Give it a try....  Decide for yourself.... And steven segal is an attention whore, blow hard....  He's FAR from what a good Aikidoka should be.

- Actually I have a bit of experience with observing Aikido and trying some its techniques.  I was extremely interested in it when I first began training in martial arts.  However as I progressed in my training (not in Aikido) I began to realize the weakness of its training methods.  Hell, my Brazilian JiuJitsu class was proceeded by an Aikido class.  I used to spend countless periods of time watching them train with no one giving any resistence. It works great in the school and against a drunk redneck with the agility of a 2x4, but isnt that great when dealing with active aggresive people.

I took a few classes and think it's a pretty neat thing.  I just wasn't into the (or good at) the rolls on the ground..which you need to know so you don't break your shoulder or wrist when your partner throws you.

It was taught primarily as a defensive form of martial arts where I took it, but you could still easily hurt people with it.

My brother stayed in it and got to blue belt.  I can't remember why he stopped going.

You don't say exactly what you wish to be able to do with your Aikido training or whether you have studied other martial arts, but ... I'll share some thoughts that may help; info-wise.
1) the "rolling/falling" skills might be the some of the most valuable skills you pick up. Maybe even for off the job. It doesn't take a lot to revert to a skill like this when you have an accident or lose your balance for any reason.
2) It's very hard to make $ teaching Aikido. This makes it difficult to find a good instructor. For example, there may be others here in the Miami area, but I know of only one full-time instructor that basically "only" teaches Aikido.
3) The comments regarding Aikidos effectiveness are fairly accurate. (throw out the flames) It won't work on everyone, but that has more to do with how adept you are. A few moves "can" become 2nd nature and allow you to diffuse a situation. That semi-comical re-direct, in reality, may get your principal through a situation with a real minimum of fuss, and you are all on your way. Nobody dies, no broken bones, no paperwork.
4) When you are involved with realistic training and/or a real situation, and you experience how your Aikido training works ... it will be a combination of comedy and mysticism. You'll be thinking, "Ahhhh" while someone who was a threat, has just seemingly put themselves flat on their back.
Good luck. Any good training should help...even if you end up choosing another style.     Stay safe

Quoted: You don't say exactly what you wish to be able to do with your Aikido training or whether you have studied other martial arts, but ... I'll share some thoughts that may help; info-wise. 1) the "rolling/falling" skills might be the some of the most valuable skills you pick up. Maybe even for off the job. It doesn't take a lot to revert to a skill like this when you have an accident or lose your balance for any reason. 2) It's very hard to make $ teaching Aikido. This makes it difficult to find a good instructor. For example, there may be others here in the Miami area, but I know of only one full-time instructor that basically "only" teaches Aikido. 3) The comments regarding Aikidos effectiveness are fairly accurate. (throw out the flames) It won't work on everyone, but that has more to do with how adept you are. A few moves "can" become 2nd nature and allow you to diffuse a situation. That semi-comical re-direct, in reality, may get your principal through a situation with a real minimum of fuss, and you are all on your way. Nobody dies, no broken bones, no paperwork. 4) When you are involved with realistic training and/or a real situation, and you experience how your Aikido training works ... it will be a combination of comedy and mysticism. You'll be thinking, "Ahhhh" while someone who was a threat, has just seemingly put themselves flat on their back. Good luck. Any good training should help...even if you end up choosing another style.     Stay safe

+1 on 1)--uke has helped me in just about every physical activity i've engaged in, from bartending to skydiving.

4) is absolutely true as well.  i am far from proficient, and the first time a simple blend/lead took down a guy who outweighed me by close to 100#, i almost laughed.  it was like "ahhh...so that's how that works."

I am not a  huge Aikido Fan. If you are looking for a school of Aikido that would be useful for LEO work look at Tomiki Aikido.

The thing that Aikido is lacking is the resistance in training. Almost all of the techniques are practiced with folks offering little to no resistance, and they are mostly small joint manipulation and requires fine motor skills. And in a fight fine motor skills go to shit.

A lot of folks will talk about how bad ass Usheiba was, and that is true he was a pretty bad dude and his black belts were too. But remember, All of Usheibas students had prior training in Judo and or other martial arts Most had training in Judo.

Judo has throws that work under full resistance, has joint locks and chokes. After you are a shodan in Judo then go for Aikido. You will not have a good enough base in the skill of breaking balance to get good at Aikido untill you have trained in Judo. And by then you will say to hell with Aikido.

Oh and that Steven Segal stuff is bull shit and Heilo Gracie got his elbow broke by a Judoka.

most of the classical Aikido is basiclly Kendo but without the cool sword

Quoted: Quoted: Are you a hippie or want to explore various Japanese martial arts? Neither. What little I know of aikido is that it uses joint manipulation and redirection of an attacker's momentum rather than all strikes.

right, all defence, zero attacks...

A soft style that was developed within in the last 50 years.  The art is young, but basically it is a greatest hits of "soft" style martial arts, so basically it is about using both your force (minimally) and the opponents force together to yield results.   Basically, this rules out strikes so the art relies on throws, locks and chokes as its primary weapons.  

Specifically it uses redirection and/or change of direction to either throw the individual or to set them up for locks and chokes.

Quoted: If you want to learn how to fight, you want a school that teaches modern shootfighting/grappling or Krav Maga, preferably both.  All the fancy asian crap in the world isnt even a fair match against the fighting styles found in the octagon,not gonna throw too many people around with their momentum when theyve stradled your torso and are beating your face.  Likewise, youre not going ot the ground if you apply the fundamentals of Krav Maga, even women can induce a flurry of strikes to bring a 300 lb man to his knees in seconds before he has a chance to tackle and rape her.

+1  Haganah is another good one to learn that would be very useful.

How many of the "Israeli" systems arent watered down for commerical resale?

Quoted: most of the classical Aikido is basiclly Kendo but without the cool sword

I used to train kendo in Chicago when the choyokan dojo was at the headquarters of the Aikido Association of America, and I spent an enormous amoutnof time watching Aikido practices and drills (as well as having observed a lot of their black belt testing).  The "weapons" forms of Aikido are basically useless in my layman opinion, but I was very impressed with the throws, redirects, etc - and the principles of movement, force, etc - that were underlying the moves. (When I have more time for martial arts in my life, if I ever add another martial art to kendo, it will be aikido.)


So from what Jarhead_22 describes his needs as, I think it could potentially be very useful.




However, I would echo the concerns that a few people have mentioned, that you want to make sure that sparring partners are not being too "cooperative" and that in fact there is resistance and agression invovled in the sparring - otherwise it becomes more choreography than martial art.

The only Aikido system that I know of that engages in any form of sparring is the Tomiki style

Quoted: Quoted: most of the classical Aikido is basiclly Kendo but without the cool sword I used to train kendo in Chicago when the choyokan dojo was at the headquarters of the Aikido Association of America, and I spent an enormous amoutnof time watching Aikido practices and drills (as well as having observed a lot of their black belt testing).  The "weapons" forms of Aikido are basically useless in my layman opinion, but I was very impressed with the throws, redirects, etc - and the principles of movement, force, etc - that were underlying the moves. (When I have more time for martial arts in my life, if I ever add another martial art to kendo, it will be aikido.) So from what Jarhead_22 describes his needs as, I think it could potentially be very useful. However, I would echo the concerns that a few people have mentioned, that you want to make sure that sparring partners are not being too "cooperative" and that in fact there is resistance and agression invovled in the sparring - otherwise it becomes more choreography than martial art.

Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu is based on the sword, my Sensie would often say, visualize the technique as if you had a sword in hand.  Of course, since Aikido is descended off of Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu, I would fully expect the techniques to be based on the same principles.

I snapped a guy's wrist like a toothpick in one class, we were practiceing a joint lock followed by throwing the guy into the ground.   Well, my partner didn't go with the flow and resisted, well his wrist made a VERY audible pop followed by him being thrown into the mat.   My Sensie smiled and said very good technique John "me" and my partner got no sympathy.

J-22, much of the answer depends on your personality and fighting style.  If you are a reactive fighter, then Aikido may be for you.  If you have an aggressive fighting style, then more classical karate may be what you want.

I have trained some in Tang Soo Do, and it is a VERY aggressive, punch and kick 'hard' style art.  If you are not the aggressive type, TSD or TKD may not be your bag.  If you are, training for Aikido will drive you crazy.   Your fighting style is the major factor in which art you select.

I wish you well in your search.

Ops

I'm a Judoka so my opinion is definitely biased.

For personal security work I would for sure rule out the harder styles. Goal being keeping any use of force low profile, kicking and punching would be counter to that goal.

Akido is a fine art. However to gain practical use of the art requires a great deal of time in training. Any Akido sensei will tell you that. Just about any martial art is the same, but as a previous poster said Akido has a great deal of fine motor skill movements. It can be mastered for practical application, but takes much longer.

I would recommend Judo for your use. Many cops train at the school I train at (we have karate, judo and akido classes available) all take judo. None train with the other arts. Judo has a distict advantage in that you can apply a compliance technique commensurate with the amount of force you need and it still be effective. If you need to get your point across, you can just twist an arm. If you need more, you can add a little force and break the arm. Want to make someone think twice about bad behavior? Choke 'em till they're dizzy, want them to take a nap? Choke 'em a little longer. Want them to take the dirt nap? Well... you get the idea.

The striking arts don't give the option to use a force continuim (sp?). If you strike, for it to be effective, it has to be full power (full power shot anyone?).

I would think Akido would be the same as judo in this regard but I don't know for sure.

All in all I would say the most important factor is the philosophy of the school that teaches the art in question. If it has the mindset and teaches the skills you need, the art or style or form  really won't matter.

something else occurs to me--aikido is not a combative.  in fact, it is the opposite of a combative.  it is about controlling the space around you, not defeating an opponent.  from this perspective, it cannot be solely relied upon if one wants to win a fight, but in my business, it is by far the best system available, as i do not want to engage in a fight.

nothing glamorous--bars/nightclubs.  we are the opposite of what you describe--we move the trouble out, not get someone out of a trouble spot, but i think there are valid parallels.  most especially, aikido is not necessarily about bringing an attacker to grips with you, but rather prevents the attacker from bringing you to grips.  the ability to retain one's mobility would seem to be valuable to an exec protect.

I think Aikido lacks an offensive nature which you might need to call into play to get the principle out of the AO if things start to get hairy. Also, there is pretty much an absence of strikes and other practical techniques in their sylabus.

I studied some Aikido when I lived near Indianapolis.  I was very impressed by the dojo there.  They were glad to have me join because it gave them someone trained in a "hard" style to practice against.  My punches and kicks were more powerful than theirs (since they didn't train for that).  Of course that meant that most of the time I just hit the floor, wall or (sometimes it seemed like) the roof harder.  

I saw enough to convince me that the legends about Aikido masters throwing people without touching them might not be crap after all.  In training, I threw a punch at another student and all of a sudden the SOB just wasn't there.  If I had been some yahoo throwing an uncontrolled haymaker, I would have ended up on my face.

I wish there was a dojo near where I am now.