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Posted: 8/5/2010 10:26:40 AM EDT
hey! hello to everybody. My name is Josué, age 24. Spanish Army NCO. I have finished my academy years one month ago, and I´ve been recently posted to the Spanish Army Airborne Brigade. Im looking through out the internet for a handgund course for foreign personal in USA. But don´t know if we are allowed for doing it at all. Could anybody recommend me something ???
thank your very much for your time.
All the best.-
Josué.-
Link Posted: 8/5/2010 12:38:20 PM EDT
Hello, and welcome.

Gunsite training academy in Paulden Az. is one.

I've trained with a person from Spain, in a handgun, and a shotgun class there.





Link Posted: 8/9/2010 8:08:04 AM EDT
Howdy Sir. I would think that any major training facility in the USA would welcome you. Contact Gunsite, etc.,.
I'm sure a copy of your Spanish military credentials would be adequate for acceptance into their programs.
Welcome aboard, and good luck to you.
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 9:22:46 AM EDT
Josue, contact Fort Huachuca in AZ and see if you are eligible for the free intensive handgun course I give Military and Police forces. I M me and I'll give you the contact numbers.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 1:35:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 1:51:47 PM EDT by homeyclaus]
Originally Posted By ferretray:
Howdy Sir. I would think that any major training facility in the USA would welcome you. Contact Gunsite, etc.,.
I'm sure a copy of your Spanish military credentials would be adequate for acceptance into their programs.
Welcome aboard, and good luck to you.


You'd be surprised. EAG, for instance, quotes ITAR (International Tariff of Arms Regulations) as to why this is prohibited.

It speaks to a clause that covers "other defense services" although non-classified training (driving a pistol, carbine, whatever) is generally allowed, and moreover specifically allowed for nationals of EU, NATO countries, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, and Japan per State Department's register on ITAR (part 124, i.e. 22 CFR Ch. 1). Caveat: IANAL, and I read through this quickly.

Part 124.2 CFR 22 Ch. 1 specifically excludes training and military service although the section pertains to maintenance, and not operation of items covered by ITAR. 124.16 again makes specific exceptions for nationals of the countries listed above. And it states that Category I items (basically, firearms) are covered. I guess if you don't teach "maintenance" to a foreign national you're good to go.

So it boils down to:

A) them not wanting to do business with non-Americans, and blame it on someone else rather than manning up.

B) Or it's not worth trying to negotiate the rabbit-warren of weird State Department CFRs to figure out whether you need a permit, and if you need a permit per person or per organization, or what a US person is. If they go by the definitions in the ITAR CFRs, permanent residents are US persons too.

ETA: 120.9 specifically lists training of almost every kind related to a defense article as a regulated item as a "Defense Service." The word "training" only appears in 124 again related to maintenance, and under some definitions of "training equipment." While specifically enumerated as regulated, it specifies nothing more.



§ 125.4 –– Exemptions of general applicability.

(a) The following exemptions apply to exports of unclassified technical data for which approval is not needed from the Office of Defense Trade Controls. These exemptions, except for paragraph (b)(13) of this section, do not apply to exports to proscribed destinations under § 126.1 of this subchapter or for persons considered generally ineligible under § 120.1(c) of this subchapter. The exemptions are also not applicable for purposes of establishing offshore procurement arrangements. If § 126.8 of this subchapter requirements are applicable, they must be met before an exemption under this section may be used. Transmission of classified information must comply with the requirements of the Department of Defense Industrial Security Manual and the exporter must certify to the transmittal authority that the technical data does not exceed the technical limitation of the authorized export.

(b) The following exports are exempt from the licensing requirements of this subchapter.

(1) Technical data, including classified information, to be disclosed pursuant to an official written request or directive from the U.S. Department of Defense;

(2) Technical data, including classified information, in furtherance of a manufacturing license or technical assistance agreement approved by the Department of State under part 124 of this subchapter and which meet the requirements of § 124.3 of this subchapter;

(3) Technical data, including classified information, in furtherance of a contract between the exporter and an agency of the U.S. Government, if the contract provides for the export of the data and such data does not disclose the details of design, development, production, or manufacture of any defense article;

(4) Copies of technical data, including classified information, previously authorized for export to the same recipient. Revised copies of such technical data are also exempt if they pertain to the identical defense article, and if the revisions are solely editorial and do not add to the content of technology previously exported or authorized for export to the same recipient;

(5) Technical data, including classified information, in the form of basic operations, maintenance, and training information relating to a defense article lawfully exported or authorized for export to the same recipient. Intermediate or depot-level repair and maintenance information may be exported only under a license or agreement approved specifically for that purpose;

(6) Technical data, including classified information, related to firearms not in excess of caliber .50 and ammunition for such weapons, except detailed design, development, production or manufacturing information;

(7) Technical data, including classified information, being returned to the original source of import;

(8) Technical data directly related to classified information which has been previously exported or authorized for export in accordance with this part to the same recipient, and which does not disclose the details of the design, development, production, or manufacture of any defense article;

(9) Technical data, including classified information, sent by a U.S. corporation to a U.S. person employed by that corporation overseas or to a U.S. Government agency. This exemption is subject to the limitations of § 125.1(b) and may be used only if:

(i) The technical data is to be used overseas solely by U.S. persons;

(ii) If the U.S. person overseas is an employee of the U.S. Government or is directly employed by the U.S. corporation and not by a foreign subsidiary; and

(iii) The classified information is sent overseas in accordance with the requirements of the Department of Defense Industrial Security Manual.

(10) Disclosures of unclassified technical data in the U.S. by U.S. institutions of higher learning to foreign persons who are their bona fide and full time regular employees. This exemption is available only if:

(i) The employee's permanent abode throughout the period of employment is in the United States;

(ii) The employee is not a national of a country to which exports are prohibited pursuant to § 126.1 of this subchapter; and

(iii) The institution informs the individual in writing that the technical data may not be transferred to other foreign persons without the prior written approval of the Office of Defense Trade Controls;

(11) Technical data, including classified information, for which the exporter, pursuant to an arrangement with the Department of Defense, Department of Energy or NASA which requires such exports, has been granted an exemption in writing from the licensing provisions of this part by the Office of Defense Trade Controls. Such an exemption will normally be granted only if the arrangement directly implements an international agreement to which the United States is a party and if multiple exports are contemplated. The Office of Defense Trade Controls, in consultation with the relevant U.S. Government agencies, will determine whether the interests of the United States Government are best served by expediting exports under an arrangement through an exemption (see also paragraph (b)(3) of this section for a related exemption);

(12) Technical data which is specifically exempt under part 126 of this subchapter; or

(13) Technical data approved for public release (i.e., unlimited distribution) by the cognizant U.S. Government department or agency or Directorate for Freedom of Information and Security Review. This exemption is applicable to information approved by the cognizant U.S. Government department or agency for public release in any form. It does not require that the information be published in order to qualify for the exemption.



The above seems to imply that everything .50 cal and under is good to go unless you're a citizen of a prohibited country. Just don't tell Pat ;)
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 2:45:27 PM EDT
www.floridafirearmstraining.com

Every month. We can even rent you all the equipment. you will need. Training classes are 2 hours hrom Fort Lauderdale Florida.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:25:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 9:26:08 AM EDT by homeyclaus]
I got so wound up with the ITAR stuff that I forgot to recommend somebody:

Magpul Dynamics

Chris Costa had no trouble giving this non-citizen a hard time, and yes, it drastically improved my shooting.

The local training outfit I like to recommend just put a "US Citizens Only ITAR blah blah" on their web site, otherwise I'd recommend them.
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