First off, my daughter is 8.

I've got her in a karate program and we're all very new to this. She had another demo graduation this weekend and they basically gave her the orange belt. We talked about it again today, she enjoys classes, but her technique is lacking, both in power and precision. I watched her work through all her moves and it seemed as if she was fighting a whirling dust bunny. She just got new instructors too, who are saying the classes will get tougher, so she's gonna have to step it up.

When I watch her in class, they do some punching and kicking on one of those upright, self-standing training bags, but the class is large, so she really doesn't get much more than a few minutes on the bag, and even then, she a lightening whirl of quick punches, that don't amount to much more than slapping.

Is this acceptable for an 8 year old?

She we just focus on technique? Or should I buy her a training bag to have at home? Does it need to be a "self-standing" bag, or can I get away with a cheaper hanging bag?

concentrate on making it fun

Everything else must wait


not fun = not going to do it

I used to teach karate, including kids karate, back in the early '80s. Mostly they didn't develop skills that really amounted to self defense until they were older.

I wouldn't expect much from an 8 year old.

If you get a bag, make sure she doesn't hurt her hands (perhaps not likely how she punches, but still something you want to avoid).

I think grappling would be a better base for self defense: wrestling, judo, or BJJ. Nothing against the karate, but if I had to chose only karate or only BJJ, I'd go with BJJ. And she is more likely to actually use grappling against a bully.

This.

They got new instructors about a month ago and they're changing the format, supposedly to concentrate more on Taekwondo. Not really sure how it makes a difference at this stage, but they are working her more into sparring. They just finished a section on nunchuks and were supposed to move onto staff weapons, but I'm not sure that's going to happen now. But weapons are only a small part of the class. She's ok with the chucks for 8, the damn things scare the hell out of me, thinking someone is gonna lose some teeth (my daughter, not other kids).

I keep asking her if she's having fun, she says she is, so we keep going. She likes the weapons. It's costing $$$ my ass just for the basic stuff. I literally could have bought 2 AR's with what I've spent in the last 7 months, but she needs some type of sport.

There were some kids last week who were in the 12 -14 year old range who really put on an awesome demonstration with the fighting staff. Speed and precision, but she's no where near that. Just want to keep fostering her along right now, making sure she has the opportunity to succeed.

It's all in the hips.

I've owned a couple schools in the past, and this  is the correct viewpoint to have.

Look at it this way: If you had an 8 year old in football, they wouldn't be NFL caliber yet. Give the girl time, and she will improve.

Shes 8, not really going to be able to defend herself with or without karate skills until she is at least a teenager and if she has a small frame she will have to work extra hard at it. I would say at that age its more about learning balance, coordination and mental motivation. But its ok as most children are darn near helpless, thats why they live with their parents until they are 18 (or much much longer in some cases).


I started playing hockey when i was 8, by time i was 18 i bet my parents invested over $20,000 in fee, equipment, injuries, traveling expenses, etc...its amazing what we will do for the mini versions of ourselves we call children.

I teach mixed martial arts.  I would get a pair of mitts that you can hold for her.  A bag can help too, but they take up space so that one is up to you. Any type of bag will do its job for her at her age.  A heavy bag will build power because you have to push more.  Mitts are excellent for building technique, accuracy and speed.

I have a 6 year old who I thought hit pretty weak until we started a kids class.  He hits twice as hard as the kids 2-3 years older than him and this is completely due to the fact that he has a heavy bag at home and loves to hit it.  His technique is really good too because I've done hit and cover drills on the mitts.  He is a little guy too so it has little to do with size at this age and a lot to do with technique.  

Also the most important thing is to teach her to make a tight fist.  It will reduce the chances of injury and hitting will hurt less and so she will hit things harder.  It is great to start her young, kids at that age are a clean slate, it takes longer for them to grasp the concepts than it would an adult, but when they do grasp it they usually have better technique than adults do.

don't sell small girls short. with the correct form they can generate good power. a 22oz framing hammer falling off the scaffolding would leave one heck of a mark.
muay thai

technique

fun


everything else will work itself out


and then somebody will push her buuton one day and all hell will break loose

on that day we will nod and smile

patience grasshopper

I taught my boys (18 months apart) to throw straight, hard punches with purpose and to aim for the nose.  Now they are 6 and 8 years old and I'm getting hurt!  One of these days, they will break me.

Most kids can hit really hard with the right training, hard enough that I almost always wrap their hands. The trick is to have her time her jab with her step, and drop her weight into her cross. I will cover them in that order.

1. Jab (lead hand, usually the weak side): A lot of people jab with their strike timing disconnected from their step. So here is a way to practice that:
Drill A: Have her get in a proper stance (orthodox), and practice stepping to the left by barely picking up the left, and then pushing off the right. It will feel like a hop at first, but will smooth out as she gets used to it. Repeat by moving to the right by picking up the right foot and pushing off the left. This one is a bit trickier because people tend to switch their stance up or bring their feet parallel. Try to avoid this. Move back ward by pushing off the front, ensuring that her weight stays centered over her hips. People often tend to lean forward a bit and rock themselves backward. This is not pushing, this is an attempt to develop momentum, which is incorrect. Moving forward is, you guessed it, done by pushing from the rear foot to drive forward.

A couple points on this drill. It seems obvious, but it's not. I get people in my gym all the time with years of experience and they mess this up without fail. Especially the guys that say they already do it in their system. We move like this naturally when we are pushing something heavy like a refrigerator, but in combat sports people have a tendency to step and drag their rear foot rather than drive off the rear foot. Make sure not to bring your feet too close together in between steps.

Drill B: Lay a mitt down on the floor and have her practice moving around the mitt with her new, pushing footwork. Ensure that she is not step/pulling, but always driving in short, powerful movements with her hips centered in her stance. In our system, we have a squared stance and keep our hips facing the target, but she will most likely be bladed.

Drill C: Now remove the mitt, and have her get in a good stance. Now have her close her eyes. The eyes are essentially a camera, and will tell us we are in balance when we are not. Balance is essential to hit hard. Have her close her eyes until she is completely within balance, then open them. Have her get out of her stance, then get back in it with her eyes closed, opening them only when she is within balance. Over time her body will go to her balanced stance naturally. Now, have her do the same previous footwork in drill B, but with her eyes closed, and here's the catch: She can only take a step when she is in balance, and if she takes a step and is out of balance, she had to fix it. Do this for a bit until she gets it, then have her open her eyes. If she starts messing up again, have her close her eyes and repeat.

Drill D: Work her on the focus mitts (not the heavybag, I think it's unnecessary for a child, personally), lead hand only. Start out slow at first, and have her drive off her rear foot as she takes a small step at a 45 degree angle, and have her hit the mitt just before her front foot hits the ground. Do it slowly at first, then keep repeating. If she loses balance or steps and pulls her rear foot, you will feel it. Have her do a "balance check" by having her close her eyes, adjust, then open, and hit the pad. Keep speeding up until she is popping it pretty good. The timing is crucial. Small kids don't have muscles, but they have weight. If she has a weak jab, it is always a timing issue. This ties in everything she has been working with pushing in every direction, being centered in balance, and striking a split second before her front foot lands.

2. Cross (Usually rear, power hand):

Drill A. Have her get in a good stance, and do a modified duck by keeping her upper body erect and bending both knees equally in a quick downward pop before coming back up. This is all legs, no upper body. She can do a deep bend at first, but it's just a quick downward pop then back up. Have her repeat this several times.

Drill B: Now, have her do it, again, in slow motion, and throw her rear hand straight at the same time, so that her fist hits at the bottom of the downward knee pop, retracting as she comes back up. This is crucial because she needs to drop her weight into the shot. Now one common error is people try to lean forward and put some pizazz into it. This is not what you want. It feels counter-intuitive, but you actually get more extension on your cross by keeping the upper body erect and popping down with the knees.

Drill C: Still going in slower motion, now have her take a step at the 45 degree angle to her left (if she is orthodox), bringing her right foot with her after driving off of it, and end the motion with a smooth pop down as she throws her cross, retracting as she comes back up. It will start as a deeper lunge but once she gets use to it, it's a small pop timed with her strike. The step at the angle opens the hips up so that the cross oftentimes hits just as far as, and sometimes farther, than the jab.

Drill D: The final aspect of the cross is to have the rear toes turned in the same direction as the punch. This cannot be stressed enough. A frequent reason people don't have a hard right hand is because thir rear foot is turned out, and so the hips point out rather than where their fist is going. This is not a hard shot and will actually throw their balance off as well as put stress on the knee. So to put it all together, she pushes off the right, brings the right foot with her (not too close to her lead foot), drops, and torques that rear foot in the same line as her cross as she pops equally with both knees, then retracts her hand as she comes up. This will be a hard cross thrown with all her weight, and will be hard even if she is tired because it doesn't rely on musculature.


I hope this helps.

Hey man I'm no expert at all and probably don't punch much harder than your daughter but how about something like Jiu Jitsu??  Or maybe find an MMA gym in your area

that take a higher interest in self defense.  The gym I go to offers free Jiu Jitsu classes two days a month for kids under 12.  Many MMA gyms let you try classes for free

to see if you like it.  They seem to be less expensive than the sport type martial arts out there.  Just trying to help.

Yeah and fun is the key.  My sister used to take my nephew and he hated it because it wasn't fun.  The classes were too big.  I don't have kids but good for you doing this

for your daughter.  If you need help looking for mma gyms in your area, I think you can search on Texasmma.com and find gyms in your area.  In my experience they

have always been kid friendly.

I think punching is a bit over emphasized.  Many times a good palm strike or hammer fist will do a better job, with much less possibility of injury.  Also all these traditional schools of martial arts may teach how to throw a punch or a kick, but the biggest hurdle that your daughter would have to overcome to being able to protect herself is the mental preparation.  Many people are unprepared to make the decision to injure another person, or to be the person to initiate the fight (when danger is imminent, aggression and initiative make a big difference).  

I think some realistic drills at home might be good to do.  Set up a couple of training dummies.  Then give her a few seconds to strike each one very hard a few times, in combination.  You will condition her to attack rapidly, full force, with multiple strikes.  Repetitively punching a bag does not simulate a confrontation of any kind.

Just my two cents.