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Posted: 1/29/2017 11:52:38 AM EDT
Carry optics will now have no mag restrictions and will allow 140mm mags.
Looks like I'm going to be able to use my big stick mags now for CO. 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2017 12:41:40 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't see the point in this. If people wanted to play with red dots and 140mm mags, open has been there all along. Old guys with bad eyes that shoot production had what they wanted with carry optics. This is basically open minor.
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Posted: 1/30/2017 12:50:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Delta66:
I don't see the point in this. If people wanted to play with red dots and 140mm mags, open has been there all along. Old guys with bad eyes that shoot production had what they wanted with carry optics. This is basically open minor. Although I didn't care for the 10 round limit, I always thought they should allow flush fit magazines loaded to capacity. Not sure I really care for the 140mm magazines for CARRY optics. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 1:51:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dog1]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Delta66:
I don't see the point in this. If people wanted to play with red dots and 140mm mags, open has been there all along. Old guys with bad eyes that shoot production had what they wanted with carry optics. This is basically open minor. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Delta66:
I don't see the point in this. If people wanted to play with red dots and 140mm mags, open has been there all along. Old guys with bad eyes that shoot production had what they wanted with carry optics. This is basically open minor. I don't want an open gun. They are costly and annoying. Originally Posted By AJE:
Although I didn't care for the 10 round limit, I always thought they should allow flush fit magazines loaded to capacity. Not sure I really care for the 140mm magazines for CARRY optics. I have said that from the outset. Let them load to the factory capacity of the mag. The bullshit I always got was-"Well how does the RO know what capacity the mags are for each gun?" I always answered -"Who cares? As long as they are using a magazine without an extension, then let them load to capacity." If they are gonna let me use a 140 mag, then I will. I'm only in it for the fun anyway anymore. I'm only shooting local weekend matches from now on and have stopped shooting the big ones. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2017 2:42:49 PM EDT
[#4]
You could shoot your carry optics setup in open. No one would stop you!
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Posted: 1/30/2017 3:36:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AJE]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dog1:
I don't want an open gun. They are costly and annoying. I have said that from the outset. Let them load to the factory capacity of the mag. The bullshit I always got was-"Well how does the RO know what capacity the mags are for each gun?" I always answered -"Who cares? As long as they are using a magazine without an extension, then let them load to capacity." If they are gonna let me use a 140 mag, then I will. I'm only in it for the fun anyway anymore. I'm only shooting local weekend matches from now on and have stopped shooting the big ones. Yep, not too hard to set gamer proof rules on that one, and nobody has to count rounds. "Does it stick out of the gun any farther than a factory base plate? Then it's too long". |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 3:52:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
Yep, not too hard to set gamer proof rules on that one, and nobody has to count rounds. "Does it stick out of the gun any farther than a factory base plate? Then it's too long". When I brought up increasing the mag capacity to whatever the mag holds to Foley, he said that people were concerned with just that issue-making sure that no one games it. I told said-"People are over thinking this-just make a rule that factory or aftermaket mags that are the same length as OEM, with factory type baseplate only" The amount of derp that went on with people whining that RO's are going to have to check mags when I would bring this up really amazed me. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 4:01:56 PM EDT
[#7]
"Well these Glock 17 mags are factory even though the stick out of my Glock 19"
Welcome to open division, sir. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 4:23:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
"Well these Glock 17 mags are factory even though the stick out of my Glock 19" Welcome to open division, sir. Yep....not that hard. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 2:19:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dog1:
When I brought up increasing the mag capacity to whatever the mag holds to Foley, he said that people were concerned with just that issue-making sure that no one games it. I told said-"People are over thinking this-just make a rule that factory or aftermaket mags that are the same length as OEM, with factory type baseplate only" The amount of derp that went on with people whining that RO's are going to have to check mags when I would bring this up really amazed me. I don't get how this is a better choice than just using 140mm mags. If you say you can load to any capacity as long as the mag isn't longer than factory then everyone will have to go out and buy an XDm or whatever other guns come with 19 round mags. Everyone with a 15 round mag CO gun now has to buy a new gun. 140mm limit is easy; the gauge already exists and pretty much whatever gun you have is on equal playing field as far as capacity since 140mm mags all hold around the same number of rounds. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:20:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Russell92:
I don't get how this is a better choice than just using 140mm mags. If you say you can load to any capacity as long as the mag isn't longer than factory then everyone will have to go out and buy an XDm or whatever other guns come with 19 round mags. Everyone with a 15 round mag CO gun now has to buy a new gun. 140mm limit is easy; the gauge already exists and pretty much whatever gun you have is on equal playing field as far as capacity since 140mm mags all hold around the same number of rounds. What? Why would anyone have to go out and buy a new gun, let alone a turd like the XDm? What should have been done from the outset was that regardless of what gun you are using for CO, you get to load your mags up to the capacity it was made for. If the BoD wants to go 140, so be it, I can still play. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:44:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dog1:
What? Why would anyone have to go out and buy a new gun, let alone a turd like the XDm? What should have been done from the outset was that regardless of what gun you are using for CO, you get to load your mags up to the capacity it was made for. If the BoD wants to go 140, so be it, I can still play. I guess my response wasn't clear. If the rules were as you suggest, then certain guns would be limited to 15 rounds while others would be able to load up to 19 rounds (XDm was only gun I could think of that has 19 round mags, I think the CZ P09 might also?). So if the rules were as you suggest, anyone who owns a gun with 15 round mags, like a Glock 19, cannot be competitive in CO against someone with 19 round mags. So if they want to shoot CO they have to go out and buy one of the guns that holds 19 rounds. However, if the rules were as they are, 140mm limit, all guns are equally competitive based on capacity since with extensions they'll all hold around 23-24 rounds. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:06:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Russell92:
I guess my response wasn't clear. If the rules were as you suggest, then certain guns would be limited to 15 rounds while others would be able to load up to 19 rounds (XDm was only gun I could think of that has 19 round mags, I think the CZ P09 might also?). So if the rules were as you suggest, anyone who owns a gun with 15 round mags, like a Glock 19, cannot be competitive in CO against someone with 19 round mags. So if they want to shoot CO they have to go out and buy one of the guns that holds 19 rounds. However, if the rules were as they are, 140mm limit, all guns are equally competitive based on capacity since with extensions they'll all hold around 23-24 rounds. I see what you are saying...it's damned if you do and damned if you don't right now for CO. The open guys are crying foul and gnashing their teeth about CO having optics and 140 mags, the limited guys have their panties in a wad because of the 140 mags, the production guys are whining because they are stuck with 10 rounds. The forums are filled with bitching. Except the CO guys. On our local forum, the complaining is beginning to get loud. Like I said, I'm fine either way-fill up the standard mags or run 140. I'm just here to play and have fun, I don't care if I'm in the top or not and I don't care about a prize table. If more USPSA shooters felt that way, they would lower their stress level. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:16:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Oh that's interesting. I haven't looked at too many threads about it, but what I've seen seems to be mostly positive towards the capacity change. I don't get why anyone that doesn't shoot CO would care what the capacity is for a division they don't shoot...
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:25:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Russell92:
Oh that's interesting. I haven't looked at too many threads about it, but what I've seen seems to be mostly positive towards the capacity change. I don't get why anyone that doesn't shoot CO would care what the capacity is for a division they don't shoot... Up until late last year, I was a B class revolver shooter. I certainly don't give a crap how many rounds the other divisions are allowed to use. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/3/2017 1:46:06 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
Yep, not too hard to set gamer proof rules on that one, and nobody has to count rounds. "Does it stick out of the gun any farther than a factory base plate? Then it's too long". How is an RO supposed to know what factory basepads look like? |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 5:02:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d_striker:
How is an RO supposed to know what factory basepads look like? What RO doesn't know what a normal pistol looks like? |
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USA
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Posted: 2/3/2017 5:12:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d_striker]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
What RO doesn't know what a normal pistol looks like? One of these is a factory basepad. One is an aftermarket. Can you tell which is which? There are hundreds of guns on the Production Gun List. You're telling me that all RO's know what the factory mags look like on every single gun???? Not all factory mag base pads are "flat." 
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Posted: 2/10/2017 1:58:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d_striker:
One of these is a factory basepad. One is an aftermarket. Can you tell which is which? There are hundreds of guns on the Production Gun List. You're telling me that all RO's know what the factory mags look like on every single gun???? Not all factory mag base pads are "flat." http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/dominomofo/Public/905B65FF-4E86-4087-8E32-A08953FCC4B8_zpsfimelhn6.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d_striker:
Originally Posted By AJE:
What RO doesn't know what a normal pistol looks like? One of these is a factory basepad. One is an aftermarket. Can you tell which is which? There are hundreds of guns on the Production Gun List. You're telling me that all RO's know what the factory mags look like on every single gun???? Not all factory mag base pads are "flat." http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/dominomofo/Public/905B65FF-4E86-4087-8E32-A08953FCC4B8_zpsfimelhn6.jpg Personally I like the 140mm rule. I want to shoot full capacity mags, but i also want to shoot 9mm. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/10/2017 7:43:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d_striker]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Maybe the best way would be to say your mag can only extend 1 inch below the grip. Or something similar. Personally I like the 140mm rule. I want to shoot full capacity mags, but i also want to shoot 9mm. The easiest solution is the one that has already been established....140mm limit. We already have a gauge that measures mags. Why reinvent the wheel? Nothing is stopping those that still want to only shoot 10 rounds from only loading 10 rounds in their mags. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/19/2017 10:26:45 PM EDT
[#20]
From my perspective. ( not a card carrying uspsa member just shoot the local
Matches) I don't much care about such infighting but do think some of this all can be solved with better stage design- fewer targets per stage encouraging more focus on accuracy and hits maybe throw in some mandatory reloads like I have seen on our clubs classifier stages. I shoot and enjoy it greatly but can't quite grasp how someone who shoots a bunch of c&d's really fast ends up with a high hit factor than a shooter who shoots nearly all a's in what appears to be only a bit more time. Having said this there is room for everyone go out enjoy shooting with whatever gun mag holster combo you have shoot as good as you can and leave it at that. I myself know at this stage of my life ( in my 50's ) keeping up with the young speed demons isn't going to happen if I can still use the matches to refine my accuracy and gun handling fundamentals. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 11:35:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captain127:
From my perspective. ( not a card carrying uspsa member just shoot the local Matches) I don't much care about such infighting but do think some of this all can be solved with better stage design- fewer targets per stage encouraging more focus on accuracy and hits maybe throw in some mandatory reloads like I have seen on our clubs classifier stages. I shoot and enjoy it greatly but can't quite grasp how someone who shoots a bunch of c&d's really fast ends up with a high hit factor than a shooter who shoots nearly all a's in what appears to be only a bit more time. Having said this there is room for everyone go out enjoy shooting with whatever gun mag holster combo you have shoot as good as you can and leave it at that. I myself know at this stage of my life ( in my 50's ) keeping up with the young speed demons isn't going to happen if I can still use the matches to refine my accuracy and gun handling fundamentals. Sounds like you might prefer IDPA to USPSA... |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 11:53:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dog1:
The open guys are crying foul and gnashing their teeth about CO having optics and 140 mags, the limited guys have their panties in a wad because of the 140 mags, the production guys are whining because they are stuck with 10 rounds. Huh? Why should shooters in other divisions care? When I'm running my Limited blaster with 18 and 20 round mags, I don't really care that someone shooting Open might have a 29-round Big Stick. Same thing if I'm shooting 8-round Single Stack mags, I don't really care that those uppity Production shooters have 2 more rounds in their mags than me. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:09:02 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Russell92:
Sounds like you might prefer IDPA to USPSA... I simply enjoy pistol shooting and do when time allows ( work rotating weekends) shoot idpa as well. I accept that uspsa does some things that I don't agree with or seem to make sense, but can we say any different for any other shooting sport? So I go enjoy shooting challenge myself to do better every time and I have steadily improved with each match |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:30:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captain127:
From my perspective. ( not a card carrying uspsa member just shoot the local Matches) I don't much care about such infighting but do think some of this all can be solved with better stage design- fewer targets per stage encouraging more focus on accuracy and hits maybe throw in some mandatory reloads like I have seen on our clubs classifier stages. I shoot and enjoy it greatly but can't quite grasp how someone who shoots a bunch of c&d's really fast ends up with a high hit factor than a shooter who shoots nearly all a's in what appears to be only a bit more time. Having said this there is room for everyone go out enjoy shooting with whatever gun mag holster combo you have shoot as good as you can and leave it at that. I myself know at this stage of my life ( in my 50's ) keeping up with the young speed demons isn't going to happen if I can still use the matches to refine my accuracy and gun handling fundamentals. Hit Factor scoring is best scoring. It is simply the quotient of points and time. It's truly the best way to balance speed and accuracy. If Shooter 1 shooting all A's is getting beat by Shooter 2 who is shooting "a bunch of C's and D's" as you said, Shooter 1 has to be going REALLY slow. There are few absolutes to USPSA, but I can absolutely say that whoever shoots the most points, the fastest, is ALWAYS going to win. To quote Jeff Cooper, "Speed without accuracy is useless, as is accuracy without speed...." |
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