I prefer the "commercial equivalent" wording of the old rules. Service rifles use either "M16 style" iron sights, a Close Combat Optic (red dot), or Rifle Combat Optic (ACOG).

My perspective of the rules change was to keep older shooters in and attract more shooters. Newer shooters are likely to have a carbine with a red dot - how well could a CCO do?

The particular sight I borrowed for testing is an Ultradot 30. 4 MOA dot, 1 MOA/click coin slot knobs. Mount is a Weaver brand version of the Primary Arms Basic at about 1.55-1.6" above the rail.

[Timestamps in video descriptions.]

On my first outing, I found the height annoying as my instinct was to keep the dot centered in the tube. The lack of finger-adjustability didn't help. Groups remained fairly good.


Then I freefloated my carbine upper and put the sight on that (no front post). With a 100yd zero and JBM estimated comeups, I used it in the Individual match at the 2017 Texas SR Championship.
96-1x, 95-1x, 93-2x, 166-1x. Agg: 450-5x. I missed the wind shift at 300. While I seemed to have some trouble seeing the dot at 600yds, I blame a too tight sling/high position for most of the inaccuracy.

Attached File


I reviewed the claims of "parallax free" and forced myself to attain a natural cheek weld at the lower 1/3 of the window. At home, I didn't shoot much better, but was more comfortable.
93-2x, 98-6x, 97-4x, 192-8x. Agg: 480-20x.

With a decent MR-31 score, I thought I'd try the MOA All Day challenge. This was my second time shooting prone in the afternoon and struggled again. I realized a flaw with the 4 MOA dot. When the target is bright, the white encroaches on the black. The ~1 MOA of target reference around the dot is nil and the red blends into the white.


Another good score foiled by the knobs and bad lighting for spotting.


The countersunk lenses placed in the rear of some scopes for eye alignment consistency reminded me of claims of a rear BUIS rounding oblong dots. That works. Other things affected my score.


My Dad hadn't been doing well with his A2; from a peak in the 460s last year to low 400s this year. Often when in a slump, a break in the monotony, or a change in equipment or course of fire can reaffirm the good one does and highlight the bad to be corrected.


I got another 479 at home. Went to a practice at OKC, and again performed well at 200+300, but fell off at 600 due to light.
The last chance I had with the Ultradot was in the Individual match at the State SR Championship this year. It was bright and HOT. By 600yds, dust had entered the chamber through the magazine well. After an emergency cleaning, I was toast. I just shot to complete the scorecard.
177, 192, 191, 162. Agg: 722.


If I had to spec a red dot setup to surpass irons:
- 3 MOA dot, should be small enough to avoid the light issue, large enough for the eye to pick up easy.
- Finger adjustable knobs with "hard" clicks. Preferably 0.5 MOA.
- Rear BUIS aperture of 0.070" or less. I prefer folding as the sight picture can be rather dark in the morning.

Ours faces south, shoots start at 1:00 pm.
can be loads of fun too.

FT Gordon is east
Always great light at 600

Dam Neck faces dead east, with targets sky-lighted by the Atlantic sky.  Your first two rapid-fire 200 shots in the morning are easy to spot -- it looks like laser beams coming out of the bullet holes.

Interesting in the afternoon in that the sun shines off the bases of your bullets -- it's like watching BBs launch from your rifle.  

There is nothing worse than poor target illumination.

What RDS are you using?

Kinda makes up for lack of wind.

Ultradot 30. Borrowed from the pistol club.

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So it took you the better part of a year to get tired of shooting 170s at 600 yards, but you still believe in the red dot?

Think of the pit pullers for goodness sake.

B

I don't get to shoot past 100 often, and not always with the carbine. I only got an 80-shot at state last year, a practice, and 80-shot at state this year.

>ThinkOfTheChildren.jpg
So I shouldn't try lobbing 168gr SMKs at 1600fps at 600yds with an M1?

I have to ask, why are you using an RDS instead of something more precise?

I legged out 3 years ago and shooting high scores at short range with irons is boring. And I'm a cheaparse.

I tried a Vortex Spitfire AR 1x today.

I had high hopes, but was sorely disappointed. It's >< this close to being a good option.

Even in moderate overcast, the illumination isn't bright enough for reliable precision. When I could barely pick out the green dot (red may as well have been black) inside the bull and broke a shot, it usually went in the center. Without illumination, the inner ring is too big for a frame hold.

The knobs are compact, finger-adjustable and the numbers easy to read. The clicks aren't "hard", but seem positive - you'd have to try to be between clicks. Tracking was true for sight-in.

55gr FMJ/25gr Benchmark
Attached File


55gr FMJ/25.5gr Benchmark
Attached File

@HighpowerRifleBrony how you liking that Benchmark powder? Worked up a "go to" load with it yet?
I have been loading 55 gr FMJ plinkers with Benchmark powder really like how easy it is to work with the powder just have not experimented
with any fine tuning yet.

Functions a lot better than IMR 4198 in the carbine. Less expensive here, too. I think 25gr will be a good load for it, but I wonder if the faster burn will let me have a lower node without sooty cases.

My only actual test in a match was 50gr VMAX (or 53gr?) /25gr powder through the A2. Seemed to shoot okay, but not as tight as 24-25gr H4895 or Varget.

Seems like Hodgdon's competitor to XBR 8208.

Good info thanks, will keep using it for FMJ plinkers.

It's in the completely inappropriate category for the sport.

B

Explain.