It would seem that RockRiver and Springfield Armory don't care about the Camp Perry Long Range long shooting and bailed early at the event.  What gives???    

Rock river left before NRA week.

When did the service rifle part of it end?

NRA turn out was so poor this year they only ran one range.
RR claimed to have brought 1.5 mil to perry
For yeasr most venders pack up Sun before NRA week starts
I have heard many say no money changes hand during NRA week

The previous posters are correct. It has become economically unfeasible for these vendors to remain on commercial row for the NRA matches because the attendance does not support their business. There are 1200 or so service rifle shooters at Camp Perry for the CMP matches. There are only 400 or so total competitors present for the NRA Championships, many of whom are match rifle shooters, and even less for long range.

And keep in mind that most of the service rifle shooters that are there for NRA week are civilians who were there for CMP week and have likely already spent what they were going to spend, or they're members of the supported military teams which means they're not too likely to darken the doors of the vendors on the row.  Last year RRA was there through the Tuesday of NRA week –– not sure when they pulled out this year.  That said, I walked the row Monday night and IIRC DPMS, Bushmaster, and Fulton Armory were all long gone –– so if you broke a rifle and needed parts...

Begs to ask did you post this in AR discussion to start problems?

That might help the High Power phase out, but it certainly would put the screws to the juniors shooting smallbore who live in school districts with earlier starts to their academic years.  Apparently there still is some smallbore being shot in VA ( though I'm not sure where ) and the state still has a number of juniors shooting at Perry.  VA's junior High Power program has been all but extinct for some time now.

Wish I knew what the answer was to boost attendance at Perry across all disciplines –– I just have a feeling there is no easy or simple fix.

Sir, since we're talking opinions here, I'll put my two cents in.

Attendance during NRA week has fallen dramatically in the last few years.  AFAIK, the number of shooters this year for NRA week was under 400 which is significantly less than just last year.  I recall the number of CMP entries for NTI and P100 were in excess of 1250.  There have been quite a few dealers on commercial row that leave during or before NRA week, it's simple economics.  The number of new shooters seeking new gear is highest during CMP week when there are also more juniors.  Most of the older shooters typical of NRA week don't need a lot of new gear so the demand of the dealers on commercial row is less.

As Mr. RRA mod mentions it's hard on the families of the people working on commercial row for an extended period in addition to the loss of productivity at their factory so it's not hard to understand the motivation of the dealers wanting to leave when business drops off after CMP week.  I bought all my powder and bullets during CMP week also and never went back to commercial row later even though I was there for both weeks again this year.  As GcS mentions this will not change until the attendance during NRA week begins to increase.  

In answer to the question regarding what to do about it, NRA could start with eliminating the pervading attitude among thier volunteers that the competitiors are the source of all problems.  Obviously everything would go so much smoother if there weren't any competitors!  JMHO, 7zero1.

John has an excellent point.

Shooters flock to CMP week because there are several coveted shooting awards that many have set out to attain. Setting and achieving goals is the hallmark of rifle competition and the CMP matches give everyone the hope that they can make the cut in one or more of the individual and team matches. These awards are a source of pride for those that achieve them, just take a look at all the "scare pins" on people's clothing and the P100 and DR badge numbers in forum members profiles. It is an integral part of the service rifle history and tradition.

NRA has nothing comparable. The matches cost much more and the shooter must commit to the whole 4 days. Unless you are one of the top contenders, the most you can hope for is a handful of "bongo bucks" for placing in class/category awards in the individual and agg. matches. Not exactly the same mojo as the President's 100 medal , Leg medals, or the Distinguished Rifleman's Badge.

Don't forget, a lot of us "working stiffs" just don't have the spare vacation time to take 2 full weeks off of work to shoot at Perry.  The average american gets around 15 days of vacation per year, and if you have a family, spending more than 1/3 of that time at Perry may lead to discontent on the home front.  We all know that if Momma ain't happy, nobody is happy.

If I'm left with the choice of shooting CMP week or NRA week, it's gonna be CMP week every time.  Good times, good friends, and a chance for us "regular joes" to get some recognition even if we weren't in the top few shooters on the field.  During CMP week, I see very few folks with "I am the god of the shooting sports and you are all worthless dogs" attitude like I see at NRA matches.  I had a guy like that as a pit buddy during squadded practice.  I was ready to strangle him because all he did was bitch.  He bitched about the other shooters on our point, he bitched about the volunteers, he bitched about the USMC school and the juniors.  He was an NRA High Master, and it was his contention that the high masters should all be squadded together because that way, they were guaranteed to have good scorers and good pit service.  I guess me and my Sharpshooter card weren't worthy to shoot with him, despite the fact that I can pull and mark a target as quick as anyone else.  Its guys like him that turn me off from shooting more NRA matches, which is why I still only have a Sharpshooter card.  I don't see too many folks like that at leg matches.

Matt

Do you think the NRA adopting  some 3 gun and practical shooting matches might attract new shooters? I was wondering if they had regional shoots that served as playoffs for the world series or Gold Cup (the Camp Perry matches) for  both individual, and team events it might generate more interest.

The other issue with NRA week (at least for my group) is you have to shoot the entire aggregate.  Four straight days.  At CMP week you are free to pick and choose.  We typically run the NTI and the  P100, take a couple days off (Put-in-Bay), then shoot a couple of the games.  This is my vacation and I'm only going to work so hard.  Plus in NRA week the service rifle shooters are running against the match rifles.  They don't really mix well.  

CMP has been much more aggresive in attracting shooters to the sport.  The CMP Games were and still are a brilliant idea.  That's how all of my group got started.  We hit the Garand match one year and were hooked.  NRA doesn't offer anything like that for newbies.  You go straight into the aggregate meat grinder. Intimidates a lot of new shooters.

I agree with this completely.  NRA experimented with a "tactical" match last year or was it this year?  A two day, almost 200 round course of fire.  I guessing it fizzled, I haven't heard anything else about it.  

There is still a place for bullseye shooting.  Not all of us want to play run and gun.

The courses of fire used in traditional bulleseye shooting are plenty practical for developing and testing fundamental marksmanship skills. It's just fine the way it is and does not need to be modified with with the exception of returning to the old standing portion before the rapid fires IMO.

B

If you can`t attract competitors  to the match, how long do you think the NRA will continue to run  matches there. The vendors have apparently voted with their wallets. If you going to have the attitude of not trying  something different to bring in more shooters, you shouldn`t be surprise when the  competition gets discontinued for lack of interest.

Sir, WADR I believe the reduced attendance is due to more than scheduling issues and people not being able to take the full two weeks at the Nationals.  When I first started competing at the Nationals (1992) there were at least four times as many people in attendance at the NRA matches than there were this year.  The NRA week of the national matches has always been roughly the second week of August so I must disagree with your assertion that people don't come due to poor scheduling.  FWIW, I've attended both weeks at the Nationals since my first year and know of many that used to attend one or the other week but many have simply become to old to want to compete any more and there are not enough new shooters to replace the old ones as they retire.

In my humble opinion much of the decline in attendance at the National matches is related to a decline in the number of competitors overall who have the means to attend.  In addition I believe the NRA and CMP have failed to adequately manage the matches to achieve a positive attitude among both the competitors and the volunteers.  I personally believe replacing people like Brenda as the Chief Pit Officer on the Viale range is truly a step in the right direction because to me she epitomizes a pervasive attitude among the NRA volunteers that the root of all problems are the competitors.  Secondly I believe there should be a more professional approach to ensure the volunteer staff is consistant in their interactions with the competitors and that they know the rules and comply with them as the competitors are expected to do.

The one thing that sticks out in my memory of this year's experience at the National matches is the extensive number of times competitors were threatened with disqualification for violation of some minor rule infraction and the range of persons making such threats.  I distinctly recall on numerous occasions while awaiting the shooter shuttle drivers to start the ride being threatened by those same drivers with disqualification for such infractions as boarding the shuttle while in motion or disembarking before the shuttle came to a complete stop.  While I don't disagree getting on or off the shuttle while it is in motion isn't very smart I don't believe I should be threatened with disqualification by the shuttle drivers.  JMHO, 7zero1.

In the 1970's, there was a competitor feedback form for comments in each competitors packet. I filled one out a few years with the suggestion that the DCM (now CMP) INDIVIDUAL matches be followed by the NRA INDIVIDUAL matches. This way, people could shoot both without sitting around for a few days while team matches were held. For people not on teams, this was a waste of time and an increased expense in time and money. I never had any feedback from DCM or NRA. For the past several years, I have noticed that they have stopped including "Suggestion Forms".

Not all; but, a lot of the "volunteers" seem to be there for a cheap paid vacation. They don't do a competent job and nobody seems to train them or check up on them.

The suggestion form has been in the NRA packet every year including 2011. The CMP may or may not have suggestion forms.

Instead of sitting around for a few days, put a team together. Spend the day with your friends and get some shooting in.

We are discussing the "tactical" match here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_9_2/230777_National_Defense_Match___NRA_goes_action_shooting_at_Camp_Perry.html

Yikes.

I have not been to Perry in over a decade, but it's stories like this that make it sound less and less attractive for ever going back. There are so many big matches now that I think we tend to be saturated with opportunities to do other things and who the heck would want to go to a place where you are threatened with crap by non-shooters.

NRA week will always be there even if there are only a hundred shooters. The scores being shot are fantastic and the fiercest competition in HP happens there and if I ever want to get back into shooting against the very best in the nation that is where I will go. I really could care less if there are 900 competitors as it has no bearing on anything but the business office. I suspect that a lot of the shooters that use to participate in NRA week are now shooting the CMP Recreational Target Events (Games).

I think the NRA could learn a thing or two by going to Connaught or Bisley and seeing how they run their Championships.

B

Sir, I for one appreciate the fact you stayed.  FWIW I shot an Armalite AR-10 "Space gun" during NRA week this year.  I also shot many of the CMP matches with the appropriate rifle.   I bought the parts for my "spacegun" from your shop on commercial row during previous national matches.  7zero1 out.

ArmaLite,

I appreciate the dedication you and your staff have given to the National Matches!  However, I certainly can't fault the other manufactures for leaving during NRA week as it simply didn't make sense financially.  At the end of the day, I would like to see all of the manufactures stay in business and continue to offer great products!

I believe the down-turn in attendance at Camp Perry is financial.  People have less disposable income today and ammo prices have skyrocketed!  I would expect a resurgence once the economy turns around.

Just my $.02!