After moving all over the country. I am ready to enjoy long range shooting again. I inquired about a project Appleseed event. Was told I needed to attend a 25 yard qualification class prior to a long range event.

Ok lets see. Former Hunter Ed instructor,  several thousand rounds down range out to 1000 yards in various shooting positions, several days of one on one professional coaching out to 700 yards, scope dialed in with come ups out to 700 yards verified on range, precision handloads...

I have taught numerous fine families how to shoot and qualify standing, sitting, and kneeling. Target identification? Having hunted and harvested everything from a prairie dog to an Alaskan grizzly bear, I have glassed, ranged and successfully dialed in enough to know what those big knobs on my Nightforce scope are for.

Am I missing something?

If we get into the same 25yd qualification class, don't make me look bad.

Appleseed project events teach military style rifle marksmanship using a sling and The old Army Qualification Test target and the history of The events of 18/19 April 1775. They also put on known distance shoots for people that have qualified as expert markman on the AQT. Do you shoot with a sling? Maybe this would be a good refresher for you. Marksmanship is a perishable skill.

Consider it a challenge, bring a 10/22 (or better yet, a mag fed bolt action) with iron sights and show the kids how it's done.

Peep sights on a  CZ 22 trainer.

There was no requirement for doing 25 yard course first that I was told.
The 25 yard was only done  because of lack of full size ranges across the country.

Go there with an open mind.

I don't care how good one thinks they are, there is always something to learn.  


Appleseed uses proven methods to bring a raw untrained shooter to marksmen level.  


At the very least, you will learn some of that methodology.  


At first I thought the Revolutionary War discussions/lectures were hokey.

I am glad I heard them because it puts the Second Amendment in a new perspective.  

I did a 2 day Appleseed in NH a handful of years ago. There was no pre-qualification required. All shooting was at 50 yds (max for that range). Most of us were using 10/22s. I shot ~1600 rds during those 2 days under very difficult weather conditions (3 position in pouring rain both days). Never got the mud out of my shooting mats, even with scrubbing.



We could have used some pre-shooting training about use of a sling and transitioning with a slinged rifle w/o sweeping anyone however.

Last I checked they banned MP 15-22 which sucks.

Many years ago I was an RWVA member/instructor.

I remember guys showing up with high dollar rifles/scopes and claiming to be very good shooters who found out they needed to brush up on the basics.

I remember guys getting so mad at their groups in the first couple of hours that they'd get up, pack up, and leave.

I remember a 10 year old girl with a 10/22 big enough she had to put the butt stock under her armpit outshooting the men on the standing position stage (remember what they say about females listening better because they don't have the male beliefs that they are just naturally good and know what they are doing already?).

I've seen guys who shot high power learn a thing or two that they told me would help them shoot higher scores.

It's fundamentals.  Brushing up on the fundamentals, even for "good" shooters, can still be worthwhile.

What they teach can help you.  It might take more than one Appleseed as you get a lot of info very quickly.  Putting what they are teaching you into use also takes time/more practice quite often.

At that time (10 to 12 years ago) only about 15% of the attendees would shoot well enough to be awarded a Rifleman's patch at any given Appleseed.  It may only be 25 meters, but it's tougher than it looks.

If you decide to go you'd do well to go to their website (RWVA) and go through the suggestions for what to bring.  You'll  be more comfortable with the right clothes/equipment, food/water, ammo, medicine (getting in/out of position, down on the ground, back up off the ground an uncounted number of times over the first day will leave you pretty sore and sleepy on day 2 if you don't have something to dull the pain and help you sleep.)

The curriculum for the standard Appleseed and the known distance Appleseed is different.    

The KD event is about real distance application of what you learn in the standard Appleseed.   It's a fun event to challenge your shooting skill but candidly you won't learn any where near what you'd learn in the standard Appleseed.  There isn't the one-on-one instruction/coaching that you get at 25M event.   The learning outcomes are more self-driven experimentation than purposeful instruction.   The event is like a bunch of shooting friends getting together to challenge themselves.  It's almost like a shooting match.

The standard Appleseed curriculum works on fundamentals and is focused on improving shooting skills.   The amount of information provided at a standard Appleseed is so huge that you will likely not catch it all.     I've been to a bunch and always learn 3 or 4 new skills that improves my abilities.    I know of several Distinguished Rifleman/President 100 shooters who do the same.    

Shooting those tiny scaled down targets within the time is deceivingly hard.  I've seen very impressive shooters fail the AQT and newbies who absorbed the A/S curriculum and applied it perfectly qualify. What Appleseed teaches WORKS.

Your best bang for your buck and time with Appleseed is the 25M event.

Then I would say you'd have no problem with the 25m program.

Dan Inassanto was a famous martial arts instructor who would regularly put on a white belt and line up in the last row of other instructor's schools.  He had the humility of putting aside all his training and concentrating on what the other guy had to say.  

When I attended an Appleseed event, I endeavored to do the same.

They have a really good program and I enjoyed it immensely.  Reminded me quite a bit of those glorious weeks spent on the KD ranges at Quantico.

If you cannot put aside your ego and try to learn something from their program, then don't go.  No need to run them down.

The 25m range allows for more instruction and shooting than walking back and forth to the targets.  Long range shooting, if you have the dope, just introduces wind reading.  No that much to gain from it as reading the wind isn't part of the curriculum.

I'd see lots of people who could shoot small groups with no time pressure.  Put the time pressure on and they fell apart.   The sling is necessary to get the necessary repeatable natural point of aim for accurate rapid fire.

Spent 4 years in the Army and always qualified Expert, also an avid target shooter.  I went into to my first Appleseed expecting it to be a cakewalk....not so fast my friend.   Was immediately humbled and learned quite a lot about marksmanship and American History.

Have an open mind OP and I'll bet you not only enjoy it, but you'll learn something too

My son went to a Boy Scout merit badge rifle shoot course that was put on by someone who runs an Appleseed shoot. I'm glad I had brought a few extra rifles as I was able to get in on the fun..

The both of us learned and it was a good time..

I think that any program dedicated to teaching people to shoot in a safe and effective way is a good thing.  The history lesson is lagniappe, but then I already knew it.

I have done one and would like to again.  I would like to try it with my 15-22 and no sling, but have learned that they don't allow them.

The 15-22 has an OOB discharge problem (apparently), which is why national Appleseed banned them.  You can still use any other AR patterned .22 (I shot rifleman with a regular AR and a Ciener kit).  As far as doing it without a sling, I doubt that will fly; pretty much everything that is taught revolves around using the rifle with a sling.

I see that you are in AL, OP. That is great since the Appleseed cadre there is excellent. They also run many KD events at Talladega CMP. As others have said, go to the 25m shoot with a .22 and then follow up with a KD event. I guarantee you will enjoy it.

I've been trying to get the Appleseed events here in Hawaii, but there are no instructors here.  Then I planned on going to the mainland to become an instructor, but saw the requirement to help teach something like 5 to 7 classes under a current instructor first.  That's going to be challenging.

take a 22 and an open mind. small bullets, small distance, enjoy the day.  pro boxers work a plain jane Jab etc etc.

Good morning.

This is the first I've seen your post, as I don't browse this subforum often.  I'm the Senior Instructor for Project Appleseed in Alabama.  It's possible you corresponded with me.

Yes, we ask students to attend a 25m event before going to a long range event.  We prefer you have already earned their Rifleman patch by passing our qualification test.  The class focuses on solid fundamentals.  In over 100 Appleseed weekends, I've never had a student tell me it wasn't worth their time.

We've had SWAT and life-long shooters show up and leave the weekend unqualified while a 12 year old girl rocked out a great score.  She had no bad habits and a teachable attitude.  She was ready to learn something new.

With all your qualifications and experience, it sounds like you'd be a great fit as a volunteer instructor (we're all volunteers, btw).  The first step to doing that is attend a 25m event and qualify!

Send me a PM if I can help or provide any other information.

-Rusty

My son and I attended our first Appleseed a couple of weeks ago in IL. We had a fantastic time, learned a bunch and enjoyed the history lesson. Definitely worth the time.