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User Panel
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2009 10:02:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Should remake this thread with everything said into one post
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NY, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2009 12:00:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Wow...Excellent job Thirsty...I knew most of what you presented but there were some items that I wasn't clear on...
I should have checked out the Hometown tab earlier...I never knew it was here...I'll be back. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2009 6:02:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By thirsty:
Originally Posted By david05111:
Alright BUMP because these laws are BS. I'm a non-primary NY resident. So let me get this straight...if you have a rifle manufactured prior to 1994, it can have all the goodies on it? (Flash supressor/threaded barrel, ability to accept high cap mags, bayonet lug, pistol grip, folding stock) So, hypothetically, (I'm sure this has been brought up before, I just haven't read it), since the lower is basically the only part of the weapon that has to be registered and has the serial number on it, couldn't you take a newly-manufactured weapon, slap a pre-ban lower on it, and it would be grandfathered in? Forgive my noobness, I'm probably totally wrong Yes. Except the ability to accept detachable magazines is not an "evil" feature. And all rifles can use pre-ban high-capacity magazines regardless of whether the rifles/pistols are pre- or post-ban. Rifles/lowers are not registered. If you change lowers, you have an entirely different rifle. A pre-ban lower builds into a pre-ban rifle. So I could take a pre-ban lower, slap it on my 6940, and I would be ok to have it in New York? |
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Posted: 7/8/2009 9:09:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By david05111: So I could take a pre-ban lower, slap it on my 6940, and I would be ok to have it in New York? Yes. A pre-ban lower is exempt from NYS law. Any kind of component can be added to a pre-ban lower short of violating federal law. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2009 11:45:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By thirsty:
Originally Posted By david05111:
So I could take a pre-ban lower, slap it on my 6940, and I would be ok to have it in New York? Yes. A pre-ban lower is exempt from NYS law. Any kind of component can be added to a pre-ban lower short of violating federal law. Wow,,,amazing! I've been wanting to take it up there for a long time. Well, I'm off to find a compatible pre-ban lower... |
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Posted: 7/8/2009 1:32:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By david05111: Wow,,,amazing! I've been wanting to take it up there for a long time. Well, I'm off to find a compatible pre-ban lower... Be prepared to pay a premium. Most pre-ban lowers are going for more than $400. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2009 2:44:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By thirsty:
Originally Posted By david05111:
Wow,,,amazing! I've been wanting to take it up there for a long time. Well, I'm off to find a compatible pre-ban lower... Be prepared to pay a premium. Most pre-ban lowers are going for more than $400. Yikes, well I guess I'll get one eventually |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 7/16/2009 5:42:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Wait so if I have a preban AR and am from CT but i want to shoot in NYS i need preban mags too? to shoot say 20 or 30 round mags?
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Posted: 7/17/2009 9:18:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By Tyler259: Wait so if I have a preban AR and am from CT but i want to shoot in NYS i need preban mags too? to shoot say 20 or 30 round mags? Yes. Mags are regulated separately but use the same dates for pre-ban status. Large-capacity (> 10 rounds) have to be pre-ban to be used legally in this state, but you can use pre-ban mags in any pre- or post-ban rifle or pistol. |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 6:33:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Uh, OK, so would a KT sub 2000 with a permanently attached stock extension (making it 30.5 inches over all length) be considered a rifle or a pistol for the purpose of NY law?
In Michigan, it's considered a rifle. (barrel is 16.1 inches long, comes from factory at 29.5 so would be a pistol, but for the permanent extension, magically making it a rifle...) |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 6:51:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By JusAdBellum: Uh, OK, so would a KT sub 2000 with a permanently attached stock extension (making it 30.5 inches over all length) be considered a rifle or a pistol for the purpose of NY law? NY follows federal law. The minimum OAL for a rifle (16" barrel) or shotgun (18" barrel) in NYS is 26". |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/30/2009 11:15:52 PM EDT
[#12]
ok I'm sorry Thirsty I don't mean to piss you off by asking a redundant question but what is the exact reason that a stag model 2 or a bushmaster xm-15 doesn't count as an ar-15? I read a section in the penal code that said "any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (All Models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (Sc-70); (iv) Colt Ar-15...." the list goes on and trust me I want an ar-15 in fact I'm about 100 bucks away from buying a stag model 2 off a friend of mine i just want to know why exactly the stag model 2 I buy wouldnt count as an ar-15 or a "copy or duplicate". I am friends with a cop who assures me that if I buy a stag model 2 that it would be legal but nobody seems to know exactly why.
Sorry for a reocurring question thirsty truly I am but its been bothering me lately so I figured I'd go to the best experts on ar-15s that I know. |
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Posted: 10/1/2009 8:47:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By JohnDoe1990:
ok I'm sorry Thirsty I don't mean to piss you off by asking a redundant question but what is the exact reason that a stag model 2 or a bushmaster xm-15 doesn't count as an ar-15? I read a section in the penal code that said "any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (All Models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (Sc-70); (iv) Colt Ar-15...." the list goes on and trust me I want an ar-15 in fact I'm about 100 bucks away from buying a stag model 2 off a friend of mine i just want to know why exactly the stag model 2 I buy wouldnt count as an ar-15 or a "copy or duplicate". I am friends with a cop who assures me that if I buy a stag model 2 that it would be legal but nobody seems to know exactly why. Sorry for a reocurring question thirsty truly I am but its been bothering me lately so I figured I'd go to the best experts on ar-15s that I know. No worries. The simple answer is because the receiver doesn't say "Colt AR-15" on it. It isn't considered a copy or duplicate without that Colt rollmark. Your Stag is legal post-ban despite being nearly identical in shape and function to the Colt due primarily to manufacturer markings. That's really all there is to it. Furthermore, if you have a pre-Sept. 14th, 1994 Colt lower with AR-15 markings, it is perfectly legal as well because pre-bans are exempt from the AWB. Get that Stag built, stay within the law, and have fun. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2009 2:43:33 AM EDT
[#14]
ok thanks thirsty I appreciate it sorry for a redundant post
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Posted: 10/2/2009 9:00:15 AM EDT
[#15]
The "copies or duplicates" language dates back to the '94 Federal AWB and the ATF ruled (sort of) that postban configured rifles/pistols/shotguns were not assault weapons under federal law.
The NJ AWB which is more restrictive then NY's ban acknowledges that a COLT MT is not "substantially identical" to AR-15 series rifles. http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag1.html The Colt Match Target Rifle, based on the manufacturer’s specifications, is a new line of rifles and is not part of the AR-15 series, and thus, is not prohibited under N.J.S.A.2 C: 39-1w(1). Although this new rifle, may resemble the Colt AR-15, there have been substantial changes to the firearm, including the receiver which is not identical to an AR-15 receiver. In addition, because of changes in the configuration of the firearm, the Colt Match Target Rifle is not substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and prohibited under this classification. |
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Posted: 11/11/2009 10:05:40 PM EDT
[#16]
How about the new AUG A3's? AUGS are on the buy name list, but these are also stamped Saber
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2010 9:52:17 PM EDT
[#17]
forgive me for my ignorance but I have a quick question, if I am planning a hunting trip for upstate NY, is it illegal to use mr AR15 if I only have a five round magazine capacity?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2010 9:58:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By TheBosch:
forgive me for my ignorance but I have a quick question, if I am planning a hunting trip for upstate NY, is it illegal to use mr AR15 if I only have a five round magazine capacity? At least as long as it is not made by Colt or post 1994? Is that correct? |
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Posted: 2/25/2010 10:42:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By TheBosch:
Originally Posted By TheBosch:
forgive me for my ignorance but I have a quick question, if I am planning a hunting trip for upstate NY, is it illegal to use mr AR15 if I only have a five round magazine capacity? At least as long as it is not made by Colt or post 1994? Is that correct? If it has evil features (FH, bayo lug, collapsing/folding stock, threaded barrel, grenade launcher), the lower receiver has to have been made before Sept. 14th 1994, aka pre-ban. Colt lowers are ok as long as they aren't made after Sept, 14 1994 (post-ban) and aren't marked "Colt AR-15" if they are post-ban. Also note many counties in NY don't allow rifle hunting, but I think this depends on your quarry and what animal is in season. |
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Posted: 3/4/2010 2:21:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Can we work in a 922(r) edit?
There have been some recent threads talking about switching components on older imports. |
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Posted: 3/5/2010 6:23:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Adirondack1]
[#21]
Originally Posted By TheBosch:
Originally Posted By TheBosch:
forgive me for my ignorance but I have a quick question, if I am planning a hunting trip for upstate NY, is it illegal to use mr AR15 if I only have a five round magazine capacity? At least as long as it is not made by Colt or post 1994? Is that correct? ANY manufacturer after the 94 cutoff date has to be in postban configuration, not just colt. Yes you need a magazine blocked so that it can not hold more than 5 rounds both in the gun and on your person while hunting. Also, related to bringing a gun and mags into the state.......any "normal capacity magazine...I say this because the antis use the term high capacity magazine" manufactured before 94 is OK to have in the state. Any magazine with a capacity of more than 10 rounds manufactured AFTER 94 is a big no no also! There are plenty of counties that allow big game rifle hunting, but check the DEC website for the area you intend to hunt infirst. Statewide you can hunt coyotes and other predators with your AR. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2010 7:43:30 PM EDT
[#22]
One question ive always been clueless on is loaded mags with a rifle in a vehicle. Say the loaded mags were in a rifle case's outside mag pouches, and inside was the rifle itself, empty without a mag in it, and in my trunk. Is that legal? or are loaded mags not even acceptable in a vehicle?
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2010 6:42:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
Can we work in a 922(r) edit? There have been some recent threads talking about switching components on older imports. +1 please! |
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Posted: 5/11/2010 9:06:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thirsty]
[#24]
Originally Posted By tokarz1: Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan: Can we work in a 922(r) edit? There have been some recent threads talking about switching components on older imports. +1 please! 922(r) and other import rules are on the Federal level; they are not specific to NY and AFAIK NYS has no special laws or rules regarding imported firearms. I'd like to keep this thread specific to NY Rules & Regs. That said, I'm well versed in 922(r) as it is written. I enjoy assembling AK kits as a hobby. IM me any questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them. |
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Posted: 5/20/2010 12:12:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Thanks for that. I'll be saving it and printing out a hard copy.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2010 10:14:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Is .22 exempt from the ban?
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Posted: 9/17/2010 10:19:28 AM EDT
[#27]
No. The only exception is for .22 tubular magazine capacity. Preban/postban, named AW and feature tests still apply to .22 caliber rifles that meet the NY PL definition of an AW.
22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics: 23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:43:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Any information on SBRs for LEO? The NYS AWB doesn't apply to Police and Peace Officers as long as you maintain your certification. However, I was wondering about SBRing a lower and can't think of a better place to glean information.
Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/14/2010 3:22:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Is a magazine dated 9/13/94 and marked LE/Mil Restricted use a preban or not?
it is prior to the 9/14/94 AWB, right? The markings confuse me |
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Posted: 12/14/2010 8:43:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By drucifer:
Any information on SBRs for LEO? The NYS AWB doesn't apply to Police and Peace Officers as long as you maintain your certification. However, I was wondering about SBRing a lower and can't think of a better place to glean information. Thanks! AFAIK only on a department letterhead. There are no provisions for LEO's to privately own Title II (NFA) firearms. |
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Posted: 12/14/2010 8:56:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By AlphaTea:
Is a magazine dated 9/13/94 and marked LE/Mil Restricted use a preban or not? it is prior to the 9/14/94 AWB, right? The markings confuse me Such a beast would be legitimately pre-ban. The manufacture date stamp trumps all other markings on the magazine. Post-ban mags are those made after Sept. 13, 1994- those made on or before Sept. 13, 1994 are pre-ban. The question is, do you want the potential headaches? If it was me, I'd trade it to an LEO friend for a pre-ban without restriction markings. |
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Posted: 12/15/2010 11:41:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Why is this have to so difficult to decipher?
Why the hell would Glock put 9/13/94 LE/Gov Use on a preban mag? I have scoured the net and found "before 9/13/94 = preban, after 9/14/94 = ban" (what about the 13th and 14th?) "anything after 9/14/94 = ban" (so 9/14 is ok?) "anything before 9/14/94 is preban actual NY law reads "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four," emphasis is mine but this is a direct cut and paste. Other than the possible hassle factor from LE, this should be perfectly legal to use in NY, right? |
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Posted: 12/15/2010 1:22:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By AlphaTea:
Why is this have to so difficult to decipher? Why the hell would Glock put 9/13/94 LE/Gov Use on a preban mag? I have scoured the net and found "before 9/13/94 = preban, after 9/14/94 = ban" (what about the 13th and 14th?) "anything after 9/14/94 = ban" (so 9/14 is ok?) "anything before 9/14/94 is preban actual NY law reads "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four," emphasis is mine but this is a direct cut and paste. Other than the possible hassle factor from LE, this should be perfectly legal to use in NY, right? To the best of my knowledge Glock never date-stamped mags, so the date on the mag is either used in conjunction with the LE markings to indentify the mag as post ban or someone was trying to do something unscrupulous. Either way I wouldn't keep it. Also, made on the 13th = pre-ban, made on the 14th = NOT pre-ban. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 10:54:47 AM EDT
[#34]
I am in Florida, and a resident of NY State wants to buy my Action Arms IMI UZI Model A.
The Model A was manufactured before 1994, so it's considered pre-ban, and legal for him to own, right? Even though it is explicitly listed in the 'Assault Weapon' list? |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2011 6:12:22 PM EDT
[#35]
First post here. Thirsty- Great job laying out a very confusing topic. It really helps to be able to read a somewhat dumbed down version that the average guy (or gal) can understand. It helped me to understand a few gray areas that I wasn't sure about. Again- thanks for the effort on this thread.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2011 10:45:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Question regarding Kel-Tec SU-16CA. . .
Gun's stock folds up, BUT, cannot fire when detached from upper. . . more of a "break down" feature than "folding stock", it seems to me. Does NYS agree? Muzzle is threaded. Can I put a FH on it, and if I do, would it have to be pinned/brazed? Thanks for all the info here. . . very helpful and clear, but I can't figure out the deal with the Kel-Tec. . . It seems to me it has only one "evil feature", the threads on the barrel. . . |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2011 7:50:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By thirsty:
Q: I have a pre-ban Bushmaster lower receiver. Do I have to use pre-ban parts to build it into a legal rifle? A: No! You can buy brand new parts for your rifle; they don’t have to be pre-ban. Go onto any vendor of manufacturer on the web, and order yourself the most evil upper you like. As long as you obey other applicable state and federal laws, you can build your dream AR-15 style weapon with a pre-ban receiver. Q: I have a PWA pre-ban lower and I’m not sure it was a complete rifle before the ban. Can I build it into a pre-ban rifle? A: Yes, it is legal to build into a pre-ban rifle. Note there is no official, written ruling from any authority in NY. If you are uncomfortable building on such a receiver then you don't have to. As with anything you should proceed in the manner you’re comfortable with. These are the 2 questions that I am most interested in. It makes me nervous, respectfully so, to be unsure about these questions until I came here and read this. I feel better, but I have to ask, how and where did you get the answers to these questions? Who did you write/call to ask these questions? Did you only use the links under the Important Links area up at the top of your post and thats it? The reason I ask is, not because I distrust you, but want some sort of letter confirmation for 2 reasons. One, to present to any law enforcement that might want to give me trouble and two, to show all the people at my job that think its not true. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 9:49:33 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 2/4/2011 10:49:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By Transcend:
Originally Posted By thirsty:
Q: I have a pre-ban Bushmaster lower receiver. Do I have to use pre-ban parts to build it into a legal rifle? A: No! You can buy brand new parts for your rifle; they don’t have to be pre-ban. Go onto any vendor of manufacturer on the web, and order yourself the most evil upper you like. As long as you obey other applicable state and federal laws, you can build your dream AR-15 style weapon with a pre-ban receiver. Q: I have a PWA pre-ban lower and I’m not sure it was a complete rifle before the ban. Can I build it into a pre-ban rifle? A: Yes, it is legal to build into a pre-ban rifle. Note there is no official, written ruling from any authority in NY. If you are uncomfortable building on such a receiver then you don't have to. As with anything you should proceed in the manner you’re comfortable with. These are the 2 questions that I am most interested in. It makes me nervous, respectfully so, to be unsure about these questions until I came here and read this. I feel better, but I have to ask, how and where did you get the answers to these questions? Who did you write/call to ask these questions? Did you only use the links under the Important Links area up at the top of your post and thats it? The reason I ask is, not because I distrust you, but want some sort of letter confirmation for 2 reasons. One, to present to any law enforcement that might want to give me trouble and two, to show all the people at my job that think its not true. There is nothing in NYS PL (Article 265) about either of those questions. In CT, the rifle must have left the factory as a complete rifle. There is not such verbiage in NYSPL. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/20/2011 11:35:58 PM EDT
[#40]
If my friend who is an nyc resident purchased a rifle outside nyc would my friend have to get a nyc permit if he doesnt bring it into the city?
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:52:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
Originally Posted By Transcend:
Originally Posted By thirsty:
Q: I have a pre-ban Bushmaster lower receiver. Do I have to use pre-ban parts to build it into a legal rifle? A: No! You can buy brand new parts for your rifle; they don’t have to be pre-ban. Go onto any vendor of manufacturer on the web, and order yourself the most evil upper you like. As long as you obey other applicable state and federal laws, you can build your dream AR-15 style weapon with a pre-ban receiver. Q: I have a PWA pre-ban lower and I’m not sure it was a complete rifle before the ban. Can I build it into a pre-ban rifle? A: Yes, it is legal to build into a pre-ban rifle. Note there is no official, written ruling from any authority in NY. If you are uncomfortable building on such a receiver then you don't have to. As with anything you should proceed in the manner you’re comfortable with. These are the 2 questions that I am most interested in. It makes me nervous, respectfully so, to be unsure about these questions until I came here and read this. I feel better, but I have to ask, how and where did you get the answers to these questions? Who did you write/call to ask these questions? Did you only use the links under the Important Links area up at the top of your post and thats it? The reason I ask is, not because I distrust you, but want some sort of letter confirmation for 2 reasons. One, to present to any law enforcement that might want to give me trouble and two, to show all the people at my job that think its not true. There is nothing in NYS PL (Article 265) about either of those questions. In CT, the rifle must have left the factory as a complete rifle. There is not such verbiage in NYSPL. According to CTbuilder1, there is no verbiage in CT law either: Sec. 53-202m. Circumstances when assault weapons exempt from limitations on transfers and registration requirements. Notwithstanding any provision of the general statutes, sections 53-202a to 53-202l, inclusive, shall not be construed to limit the transfer or require the registration of an assault weapon as defined in subdivision (3) or (4) of subsection (a) of section 53-202a, provided such firearm was legally manufactured prior to September 13, 1994. Since the lower receiver *IS* the actual firearm, it doesn't matter how it was configured when it left the factory (i.e. complete vs stripped). Source |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 6/29/2011 8:16:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Is it legal to acquire/possess a post ban lower (with a folding stock) by itself?
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Posted: 6/29/2011 9:20:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By 9x23w:
Is it legal to acquire/possess a post ban lower (with a folding stock) by itself? Of course it is! 
Unless you live in Rocester, NYC or Albany! 
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Posted: 7/9/2011 10:59:28 PM EDT
[#44]
bump because so many people seem to not look at it and answer their own questions!
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Posted: 8/17/2012 8:28:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Wow, I feel for you guys up there. I read through the OP, and damn, is all I can say.
My brother's stint as a Drill Instructor is over at the end of the year and he's being sent back to the Infantry. He's been wondering as to the extent of the "you can't have those" laws up there. They are sending him to the 10th Mountain at Ft. Drum and he has quite a few nice guns. Seems he's ok with only a couple, but looks like he'll have to leave the others with us. Bummer. Hopefully, one day y'all will be able to be entirely free like us in Texas. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2012 11:12:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Any info on NY gun shows? I have read somewhere that you can not conduct a FTF at a gun show... not even in the parking lot... True? Not? Any source for an answer?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2017 2:39:54 PM EDT
[#47]
I have a question about converting a semi-automatic rifle into a bolt action.
I currently live in Washington state and have an M1A1 that I would like to keep when I move to Buffalo in the spring. I was reading up on the gun laws surrounding SAWs and from what I can gather as long as the gun is not semi-automatic it would not classify as an Assault Weapon. I was talking with a gun smithing friend about a Tig weld to the gas shut off and cutting off the push rod or converting it to a bolt action rifle. I would rather not get rid of it and would prefer to not deal with permits as I find beauracracy to be quite the hassle (I am sure some of you feel the same way). My question, I guess, is whether a Tig weld would be enough or if it would classify as a conversion and be subject to other laws? Also, if anyone has suggestions for converting it to a bolt action, I would love to hear. |
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Posted: 1/4/2017 4:41:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ShooterPatriot]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fentic:
I have a question about converting a semi-automatic rifle into a bolt action. I currently live in Washington state and have an M1A1 that I would like to keep when I move to Buffalo in the spring. No need to butcher it by converting to bolt action. Cut off the flash hider section of the front sight base, as well as the bayonet lug. Then blind pin and weld the front sight base on so that it can not be removed. You now have a fully legal rifle that is still completely functional. Also this is an old thread, ignore everything in it, as it is discussing the previous ban, before SAFE was implemented with much stricter regs. |
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