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Posted: 3/20/2006 1:06:38 AM EDT
Shooter's Choice , Northville, NY

Frist, let me say that after many years of reading, thinking, pricing and more thinking and waiting for the right oportunity, I finaly took part of my tax return this year and slapped down $1200 on a DPMS Panther Arms BullTwenty. 20inch fluted bull, flat top, floating handrail, JP adjustable trigger. The only thing that could be better is a 24inch fluted bull. After adding bipod, rizer, and 3X9 50mm scope, I hold in my hands the stuff that dreams are made of. HAPPYhappy.
This guy was at the Saratoga Gun Show. He had a table full of whitebox reloades of many different calibers. I scanned the table until finaly I spy .223 and zero in. There were many boxes of 62gr for 10 or 12 a box of 50, and two boxes of 55gr for $9 a box and I took both. After Wal-Mart jacking the price up on WWB .223, this seemed pretty good. I figured if the guy is reloading this much he should know what the hell he's doing, right? Well, after sunday aftrernoon bust at the gun show, I thought I would go to the range and try these reloads along with some of the 62gr Wolf I picked up. (see saratoga gun show thread) I must that the 10 rounds of Wolf I got to shoot was flauless, and even hit the Shoot-N-See at 200 yards. hehing
And before anyone asks, the gun was clean before going to the range. I only shot 15 rounds, and 10 of those were the 62gr Wolf.

My mind tells me to take this crap and get my money back and hit him for the gunsmith bill as well. Needless to say, I will never buy from this jackass again. Or am I wrong? Does anyone know or have done business with this guy?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:42:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 3:45:39 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:28:13 AM EDT
There are "reloads" and there's "re-manufactured" ammo.....BIG diffrence! But of course now you know.
The prescribed method of extracting a siezed round is to grasp the charging handle and pull downward while strikeing the butt on the ground. Doesn't hurt the rifle (provided it's not done on a hard surface) and it does work. Still a little late now.
Before you end up damaging the rifleing or makeing matters worse, take the upper to a gunsmith and not someones buddy who works at the kitchen table to have the round removed.
The complaint with Wolf or other Com-bloc ammo was the coating on the cases, such isn't the problem anymore (unless you shoot one hell of a lot of it in a very short time).
While the 'smith has it, make sure he examines the chamber: it might benifit from a good polishing or might have issues. Keep in mind that "target" rifles often have very tight chambers or lack the generious cut of military issue. YMMV
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:13:13 AM EDT
Is the round detonated and stuck or is it still live? If it's live you have a very dangerous situation. Exercise extreme care with this barrel until cleared.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:22:40 PM EDT
Ammo thats is to be fired in a semiauto should be resized using a Small Base die set.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:58:26 PM EDT
At least one re-manufacturer that I know of uses commercial machines that re-size by rolling the cases, that and several other steps that insure proper deminsions.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:59:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
Advice - DO NOT BUY RELOADS FROM SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW!

Most firearms manufacturers frown on reloads and want you to use factory fresh ammo. Wolf is very good range ammo and has never been a problem for me.

Edited to add...you bought a kickass target rifle and now you're skimping out on ammo? Shit In, Shit Out. It's like putting regular unleaded fuel into a Ferrari - you just don't do that.
Spend the money on some Black Hills brand ammo to really see what your new gun can do!



I didn't skimp on ammo. I have been shooting not the best but good ammo. Per DPMS instructions, the first 200 rounds were all brass. Three boxes of XM193, and five boxes of Wal-Mart 40rd WWB .223, before I even thought of using the case of 55gr Wolf I bought with the rifle. Lots of cleaning with the first 200 as well. I am on a budget, like everyone else, so I can't buy the real good stuff very much. My supply of Wolf and Wal-Mart is getting low. That's why I went to the gunshow looking for ammo. I did great for local price on the two cases of 62gr Wolf. It was on the crap reload that I got screwed. I would like to try the Black Hills as well as others, but first I have to find and then I have to perswade wify to let me get.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:08:14 PM EDT
We've all been there...Somebody help get this guy into re-loading.
Group buys on surplus are a great way to get high quality ammo for a reasionable price.
What part of the state are you in?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:18:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fp1201:
There are "reloads" and there's "re-manufactured" ammo.....BIG diffrence! But of course now you know.
The prescribed method of extracting a siezed round is to grasp the charging handle and pull downward while strikeing the butt on the ground. Doesn't hurt the rifle (provided it's not done on a hard surface) and it does work. Still a little late now.
Before you end up damaging the rifleing or makeing matters worse, take the upper to a gunsmith and not someones buddy who works at the kitchen table to have the round removed.
The complaint with Wolf or other Com-bloc ammo was the coating on the cases, such isn't the problem anymore (unless you shoot one hell of a lot of it in a very short time).
While the 'smith has it, make sure he examines the chamber: it might benifit from a good polishing or might have issues. Keep in mind that "target" rifles often have very tight chambers or lack the generious cut of military issue. YMMV



As stated above, I tried the charging handle butt smack method for 45 minutes with no progress. That's when I used the screwdriver shaft on the bolt carrier with a mallet. I'm damn lucky I didn't break the extractor.
Also as stated above, I already plan to take it to a GUNSMITH.
I also have no problem with "Com-block" ammo. Shot lots of Bear in my Saige 7.62X39. Not great for sniper, but damn fun to shoot anyway.his
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:23:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Is the round detonated and stuck or is it still live? If it's live you have a very dangerous situation. Exercise extreme care with this barrel until cleared.



The round is live and I broke the weapon down BEFORE leaving the range, so niether bolt nnore firing can hit it. Only thing now is to take the upper to the gunsmith
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:26:42 PM EDT
Would be happy to get with anyone. I am in Stillwater, Saratoga county
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:31:30 PM EDT
Just so you all know, I am not wet behind the ears when it comes to AR's. I did my stint in the Army back in the 70's. Back when I could have had a Colt AR-15 for $300
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:44:40 PM EDT
By the way... Thanks guys for your responses. But I still think I should take this crap ammo back to the guy and hit him with the gunsmith bill as well.

NOTE- No one has stated if they ever heard or know anything about this guy.

Shooter's Choice Northville NY. He said he has a shop there.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:54:25 PM EDT
Northville is a bit out there and no never heard of him, he's not been at the Syracuse show from what I can remember.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:16:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LordLore:
By the way... Thanks guys for your responses. But I still think I should take this crap ammo back to the guy and hit him with the gunsmith bill as well.

NOTE- No one has stated if they ever heard or know anything about this guy.

Shooter's Choice Northville NY. He said he has a shop there.


We've gone on a tangent from your original question.
I've never heard of "Shooters Choice" of Northville, NY
A decient/reputable purveyor would stand behind his product, however in this day and age I wouldn't get my hopes up. A Google search turns up a lot of info...wether or not he's in there remains to be found.
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