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Posted: 3/2/2006 12:24:30 PM EDT
I have talked to a few people about pistol permits in NYS, and my county, maybe you guys can chime in with more info for me...

Ill be turning 21 this month, and am planning on hopefully getting my C&R and Pistol licenses...

there are 2 different types of pistol permits, one for just having a pistol at home/business/work for defense, and another for going to the range/hunting? is there concealed carry rights included in the NYS pistol permits? whats the exact laws on this topic? Ive already read/heard a fair amount, just looking for more solid info. Thanks
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:26:25 PM EDT
What county is it that you live in?

Mike
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:59:28 PM EDT
You should apply for a concealed carry pistol license. A premises license is pretty useless. Depending on what county you reside in it may be administratively restricted to target/fishing/hunting/camping/hiking etc. by your licensing officer. Outside of NC and parts of SC your licensing officer is almost always a county court judge.

If you post what county you reside in I'm sure you'll get some useful info that is specific to your county.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:20:57 PM EDT
Your county of residence will determine what is available. They all have different regs.

In Niagara county there is only one type--Concealed Carry.
Erie county has 2 or 3 classifications.

You can not carry/possess outside your classification.

NY is a PIA.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:27:36 PM EDT
There are no "classifications" of pistol licenses except what is defined in the Penal Law. Some counties have decided to make up some BS name like "sportsmen license" but it has no specific meaning under the licensing law.

Any restriction that your licensing officer places on a license are administrative only. If you carry outside your restriction and a complaint is made to your licensing officer your license could be revoked or further restricted at the discretion of the licensing officer.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:53:19 PM EDT
Saratoga County
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:19:14 PM EDT
Most counties issue a "License to carry is hereby granted" type license. The license itself does not grant your right to carry the firearm concealed, but the laws and regulations of NY do. When you go to fill ou tthe application, look near the top of the form and it should ask you why a license is required. I would write: target shooting, hunting, personal protection, instruction, and anything else you can think of. The license CANNOT be denied (legally) for any reason other than having a negative mental health check, police record, domestic violence issues, or a felony conviction. You should make sure you have enough references that are not going to torpedo your chances either. Make sure they are decent people too, I knew a guy that had five references and two of them had felony DWI's. Not a good thing.

Also: get anything your county has on safe firearms classes or instruction in your area. Take what you can. The more you learn firsthand, the better off you will be. I would start by looking up section 265 and section 400 of the NY CPL and read them. The get into an NRA Basic Pistol class or something equal. Get the information from qualified, knowing sources, not the 'range commandos' you will undoubtedly find.

Gun stores can be a good source for information too. Find a good one in your area and become a good customer. He will be more than willing to helo you out when you do the same for him.

Good luck. Get it started now as it may take a while to get the permit back.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:47:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 3:48:31 PM EDT by BMANSAR15]

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
There are no "classifications" of pistol licenses except what is defined in the Penal Law. Some counties have decided to make up some BS name like "sportsmen license" but it has no specific meaning under the licensing law.

Any restriction that your licensing officer places on a license are administrative only. If you carry outside your restriction and a complaint is made to your licensing officer your license could be revoked or further restricted at the discretion of the licensing officer.



This is basically what I've been told by people who know a lot more about the law than I do. Also, check this link directly to the NYSP website firearms FAQ, it backs up what I've always been told and what rkbar15 stated above:

www.troopers.state.ny.us/FAQs/Firearms/Permits.cfm

That said... apply for your permit and get yourself a Glock... or two.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:49:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
There are no "classifications" of pistol licenses except what is defined in the Penal Law. Some counties have decided to make up some BS name like "sportsmen license" but it has no specific meaning under the licensing law.

Any restriction that your licensing officer places on a license are administrative only. If you carry outside your restriction and a complaint is made to your licensing officer your license could be revoked or further restricted at the discretion of the licensing officer.



this is what I heard about today...

so if you get a pistol permit, and carry it (concealed carry), you can worst case get reported for carrying outside of the restrictions of your license, an administrative law would be broken, not a criminal law. In saratoga county can you get a concealed carry or no?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:51:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BMANSAR15:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
There are no "classifications" of pistol licenses except what is defined in the Penal Law. Some counties have decided to make up some BS name like "sportsmen license" but it has no specific meaning under the licensing law.

Any restriction that your licensing officer places on a license are administrative only. If you carry outside your restriction and a complaint is made to your licensing officer your license could be revoked or further restricted at the discretion of the licensing officer.



This is basically what I've been told by people who know a lot more about the law than I do. Also, check this link directly to the NYSP website firearms FAQ, it backs up what I've always been told and what rkbar15 stated above:

www.troopers.state.ny.us/FAQs/Firearms/Permits.cfm

That said... apply for your permit and get yourself a Glock... or two.



id love to get my permit, because theres a number of C&R pistols out there right now i want...Tokarev, Makarov, Nagant......to add to my collection. All sorts of pistols out there id like to get
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:55:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dieter122:

Originally Posted By BMANSAR15:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
There are no "classifications" of pistol licenses except what is defined in the Penal Law. Some counties have decided to make up some BS name like "sportsmen license" but it has no specific meaning under the licensing law.

Any restriction that your licensing officer places on a license are administrative only. If you carry outside your restriction and a complaint is made to your licensing officer your license could be revoked or further restricted at the discretion of the licensing officer.



This is basically what I've been told by people who know a lot more about the law than I do. Also, check this link directly to the NYSP website firearms FAQ, it backs up what I've always been told and what rkbar15 stated above:

www.troopers.state.ny.us/FAQs/Firearms/Permits.cfm

That said... apply for your permit and get yourself a Glock... or two.



id love to get my permit, because theres a number of C&R pistols out there right now i want...Tokarev, Makarov, Nagant......to add to my collection. All sorts of pistols out there id like to get



Yeah, get them too.... but don't forget the Glock.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:16:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BMANSAR15:

Originally Posted By Dieter122:

Originally Posted By BMANSAR15:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
There are no "classifications" of pistol licenses except what is defined in the Penal Law. Some counties have decided to make up some BS name like "sportsmen license" but it has no specific meaning under the licensing law.

Any restriction that your licensing officer places on a license are administrative only. If you carry outside your restriction and a complaint is made to your licensing officer your license could be revoked or further restricted at the discretion of the licensing officer.



This is basically what I've been told by people who know a lot more about the law than I do. Also, check this link directly to the NYSP website firearms FAQ, it backs up what I've always been told and what rkbar15 stated above:

www.troopers.state.ny.us/FAQs/Firearms/Permits.cfm

That said... apply for your permit and get yourself a Glock... or two.



id love to get my permit, because theres a number of C&R pistols out there right now i want...Tokarev, Makarov, Nagant......to add to my collection. All sorts of pistols out there id like to get



Yeah, get them too.... but don't forget the Glock.




id probally get a 2rd generation glock,i dont need an accessory rail..... probally one in 9mm, just for fun at the range.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:27:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dieter122:
so if you get a pistol permit, and carry it (concealed carry), you can worst case get reported for carrying outside of the restrictions of your license, an administrative law would be broken, not a criminal law. In saratoga county can you get a concealed carry or no?



AFAIK Saratoga County is teh suck and will only issue restricted carry permits. The Judge who issues you your permit will restrict it to target and hunting. You are permitted to carry it concealed on your person when traveling to/from and engaged in these activities. If you carry outside of your restrictions and the Judge is informed he/she can revoke your license or spank you in some other way at his/her discretion. You cannot be charged with violating the pistol licensing law as restrictions of these types do not exist in the NYS PL.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:48:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Dieter122:
so if you get a pistol permit, and carry it (concealed carry), you can worst case get reported for carrying outside of the restrictions of your license, an administrative law would be broken, not a criminal law. In saratoga county can you get a concealed carry or no?



AFAIK Saratoga County is teh suck and will only issue restricted carry permits. The Judge who issues you your permit will restrict it to target and hunting. You are permitted to carry it concealed on your person when traveling to/from and engaged in these activities. If you carry outside of your restrictions and the Judge is informed he/she can revoke your license or spank you in some other way at his/her discretion. You cannot be charged with violating the pistol licensing law as restrictions of these types do not exist in the NYS PL.



does this apply no matter where you travel in the state, or can they only take this action against you if your in saratoga county?

also , realistically, how many people carry concealed regardless of this stupid restriction put in place by the judge?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:16:35 PM EDT
Yes it applies statewide. In addition any judge in the state can revoke your license. It that occurs your only recourse would be to file an Article 78 proceeding and have a hearing on the matter before a different judge. I doubt you would get your license reinstated though.

I'm sure there are plenty of restricted license holders who carry outside of their restrictions. Even though it's unlikely you will have a problem it's probably not a good idea if you intend on staying in NY for the long term.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:22:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Yes it applies statewide. In addition any judge in the state can revoke your license. It that occurs your only recourse would be to file an Article 78 proceeding and have a hearing on the matter before a different judge. I doubt you would get your license reinstated though.

I'm sure there are plenty of restricted license holders who carry outside of their restrictions. Even though it's unlikely you will have a problem it's probably not a good idea if you intend on staying in NY for the long term.



Gotcha, ok not a problem. Like I said I was primarily interested in the permit just so I could use the pistols at the range, and possibly in my home in self defense...the concealed carry would of been just a bonus. Ok thanks for the clarification.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 7:07:30 PM EDT
If you do indeed get a restricted license and you have applied for a permit to carry concealed, then you can file for a hearing. If the judge cannot show a good reason, based on the criteria set forth by the state in regards to the denial of a permit, then you will have the 'non restricted' type permit you are talking about. Wayne County in Upstate NY has, in the past, issued a permit labeled "Good for target shooting only" or "Good for hunting only" but it was done that way because the applicant stated it on their paperwork. The rumour has been around for years that if you were to mark "personal protection" on your application, they would deny it. This fact is not true. if you appeal the restricted permit, you will undoubtedly win and get the permit you want. usually, when they get challenged, they relent as they do not want to P.O. their potential voters.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:14:04 AM EDT
It is possible to get restrictions removed from your license if you can convince your licensing officer to do so. In some counties this is possible and and in other counties it is impossible. In some counties it may even depend on which county judge issues you your license. If your licensing officer is the Police Commissioner as it is in NC and western SC you are pretty much fooked.

The NY appeals court has stated in several opinions that your licensing officer can restrict your license to what essentailly amounts to a whim. It is possible to have a hearing on the matter by a Supreme Court Judge but it is unlikely you will be successful based on self-protection. If you are being stalked, have prior assaults against you or have verifiable death threats against you etc. you might convince the judge to remove the restrictions.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:27:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It is possible to get restrictions removed from your license if you can convince your licensing officer to do so. In some counties this is possible and and in other counties it is impossible. In some counties it may even depend on which county judge issues you your license. If your licensing officer is the Police Commissioner as it is in NC and western SC you are pretty much fooked.

The NY appeals court has stated in several opinions that your licensing officer can restrict your license to what essentailly amounts to a whim. It is possible to have a hearing on the matter by a Supreme Court Judge but it is unlikely you will be successful based on self-protection. If you are being stalked, have prior assaults against you or have verifiable death threats against you etc. you might convince the judge to remove the restrictions.





Originally Posted By RochPersDef:
If you do indeed get a restricted license and you have applied for a permit to carry concealed, then you can file for a hearing. If the judge cannot show a good reason, based on the criteria set forth by the state in regards to the denial of a permit, then you will have the 'non restricted' type permit you are talking about. Wayne County in Upstate NY has, in the past, issued a permit labeled "Good for target shooting only" or "Good for hunting only" but it was done that way because the applicant stated it on their paperwork. The rumour has been around for years that if you were to mark "personal protection" on your application, they would deny it. This fact is not true. if you appeal the restricted permit, you will undoubtedly win and get the permit you want. usually, when they get challenged, they relent as they do not want to P.O. their potential voters.





two TOTALLY different stories here...

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