Legal question? - AR15.COM

Posted: 3/1/2006 1:31:14 PM EDT

I just went to my local gun shop (bullethole, belleville) to arrange to get a firearms transferred there. I found a p2000 online for a great price so I wanted to get the ball rolling. They charge 65 dollars for the transfer

but it included the nics check. Today he tells me I have to also pay the tax on the firearm. Im in Essex county so there are not alot of gunshops around. Anyway I did a transfer there 3 weeks ago and he did not charge me the tax before. I thought you paid those at tax time. Is it legal for the shop to charge the sales tax even though i didnt purchase the firearms from them?

Also does anybody know a dealer who charges a resonable transfer fee, fifty bucks is a tad steep.

Posted: 3/1/2006 1:52:34 PM EDT

[#1]

gotta pay uncle sam.....
they are good people. and black rifle friendly....

Posted: 3/1/2006 2:07:05 PM EDT

[#2]

I know i have to pay the taxes, but i thought you paid that at the end of the year on your income tax. You know the part of your NJ state tax form that asks about out of state/internet purchases made? Or do you have to pay the gunshop and also the state at the end of the year?

Also this is not a bash. The 65 fee is steep but I didnt but them on blast.

Posted: 3/1/2006 2:08:53 PM EDT

[#3]

The dealer is only required to collect the sales tax on the transfer fee. I pay $25 + sales tax + trigger lock (req, by NYS) for a total of $30.

ETA: I would find another dealer if he insists on collecting the sales tax on the rifle.

Posted: 3/1/2006 2:17:33 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The dealer is only required to collect the sales tax on the transfer fee. I pay $25 + sales tax + trigger lock (req, by NYS) for a total of $30.

Likewise, here in Jersey, the dealer should only be collecting sales tax on the amount that *HE* is charging you. The sales tax on the piece that he is doing the transfer on is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS, as he's NOT MAKING THE SALE.

And I agree that $65 is too much to pay for an FFL transfer. It might be a shlep for you, but do it through PK90 here on the NY/NJ board. He does business as Arms-n-Ammo and charges a much more reasonable transfer fee. He's a great guy and one of us and he's located in beautiful Blue Anchor!

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Posted: 3/1/2006 2:30:39 PM EDT

[#5]

I will email PK immediately. I know it was kind of fishy. They didnt charge me any sales tax before just the fifty dollar fee and the 15 dollar nics check. I think they are a little miffed that im purchasing online instead of their stock.

Posted: 3/1/2006 3:52:55 PM EDT

[#6]

How would he know how much you paid for it in order to collect the tax?

"Yeah, it was a dollar"

Posted: 3/1/2006 5:47:53 PM EDT

[#7]

I had a dealer call the sending dealer who shipped it to ask what I paid, so he could charge me the BS tax.
Not right, but for the $20 or so bucks it wasn't worth fighting.
He stole $20, but he screwed himself because he lost me as a customer.

Posted: 3/2/2006 3:23:17 PM EDT

[#8]

It is illegal for him to charge you tax on the pistol. Period. If he does not sell it to you, but only transfers it, he can only charge you the tax on the transfer fee, nothing more. I would call in to the state taxation board and tell them what he is attempting.

Posted: 3/3/2006 11:41:48 AM EDT

[#9]

Thanks for the advice. I contacted PK90 who has kindly agreed to handle the transfer for me. His price is a whole lot better. With none of the tax BS. As for the bullethole I feel sorry for those guys. Between the last two times I was there I spent at least 200 dollars in range time and ammo. Thats not counting the 65 bucks I paid to have a sig p239SAS transfered (funny, he didnt charge me any tax on that pistol). I guess 65 dollars is not enough to complete some paperwork that takes 10 minutes

This is the way a small business loses good customers.

Edited for spelling

Posted: 3/3/2006 5:44:58 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I found a p2000 online for a great price so I wanted to get the ball rolling.

if you don't mind me asking, where did you find the P2000 and what (approx) are you paying for it? i'm looking for a P2000 LEM in 9mm.

e.g.
www.impactguns.com/store/M709202.html

thanks for any leads.
ar-jedi

Posted: 3/3/2006 6:41:08 PM EDT

[#11]

$65 is good money for receiving a box and filling out some papers. It's a shame they decided to cheat you too.

Taxpayer Customer Service Center (8:30am - 4:30pm, Mon. - Fri.)
609-292-6400

Posted: 3/3/2006 7:50:51 PM EDT

[#12]

If I am not mistaken when you pay him the Tax then you don't have to pay the internet Tax at the end of the year. It is either one or the other but I also never have been charged for a NICS Check. It's $30.00 for transfer and tax on the $30.00

Actually I remember a FFL trying to charge me Tax for the Hero Rifle when I got it. They wanted to charge me the cost of the rifle even though I was told it was given to me...

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:43:14 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
It is illegal for him to charge you tax on the pistol. Period. If he does not sell it to you, but only transfers it, he can only charge you the tax on the transfer fee, nothing more. I would call in to the state taxation board and tell them what he is attempting.

+1. If he's not officially ringing up the entire price of the gun plus transfer (which I don't see how he could if you've paid someone else for the gun), I doubt that extra "sales tax" charged will ever find its way to the state anyway. I'd drop a dime on that to the Tax Dept. and see what they say.

Posted: 3/4/2006 10:11:33 AM EDT

[#14]

There are all kinds of sales tax scams that some merchants do to pocket the sales tax. A common one is to use a separate register to ring up cash purchases and not remit the sales tax to the taxing authority.

Posted: 3/4/2006 12:48:26 PM EDT

[#15]

is there a list of ffl s here on this site that we can deal with .or a few in nj that people can recameand

Posted: 3/4/2006 1:39:38 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
is there a list of ffl s here on this site that we can deal with .or a few in nj that people can recameand

For an FFL in Jersey, you'll want to contact PK90 here on the board. He is the man!
See this recent thread:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=9&t=223652&page=1#bottom

Posted: 3/4/2006 11:32:52 PM EDT

[#17]

I reached out for PK and Im gonna save some buckaroos

Ar jedi, I got a p2000 with night sight in 40 cal with the lem trigger system for 680 bucks and that was at clydes armory and it also comes with three mags. I also saw on HK pro (havent confirmed it) that clyde has 8 NIB usp compact 45s that are double action only and come with three mags for only 590 bucks. Some departamental order overrun I think. Clydes got good pricing on HK guns.

The number is (706)549-1842 and they are located in Bogart, Georgia.

Posted: 3/5/2006 4:18:36 AM EDT

[#18]

Here are some facts:
1) It cost the "dealer" nothing but his time to conduct a NICS check.
2) In NY there is a significant anount of time needed to hand write two P-12's (which will need to be mailed to Albany) log in/out the firearm(s) from his bound book, read over the 4473, and phone it into the NICS center ~3 minutes IF there are no delays in processing, then file it away.
3) Purchases made outside of your state of residence are not subject to sales tax. NY does however "request" that you report and pay sales tax on internet purchases.
4) The dealer should be collecting sales tax on the transfer fee being charged. Chances are if he's collecting salaes tax on your out of state purchase, he's pocketing the money.
5) Charging for a NICS check is bullshit! NICS checks are a required portion of being a licensed dealer, the only justification would be a transfer sale at a gunshow (required by NY law).
6) Keeping the doors open and making a living require money. Scerwing people isn't any way to do it.

Posted: 3/5/2006 4:51:32 AM EDT

[#19]

I got screwed by a local dealer like that on a transfer. I thought I was prepaying for some additional parts I ordered. He got me for tax on an out of state rifle, tax was $130+. Didnt relize it until I was home & looked @ itemized receipt. 3 years later still burns my ass

. Worst part is he has the best black collection in area, have no choice but to go back @ times

. -Justin

Posted: 3/5/2006 5:11:37 AM EDT

[#20]

The FBI doesn't not charge for a NICS check but in states like NJ that act as a NICS POC the state may charge a fee to the dealer. AFAIK that is the case in NJ.

NYS is not a NICS POC and a NY dealer should not be charging you for the check. NICS certified NYS Pistol Licenses also qualify as a NICS alternative for both long gun and handgun transfers.

Posted: 3/16/2006 2:21:11 PM EDT

[#21]

Picked up my P2000 from PK90. The man when it come to firearms transfers

. Continued further down south to Atlantic City but it wasnt my lucky day

. The bullet hole lost out on 50 bucks and any future transfers. This rant thread is now officialy over...

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