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Posted: 11/3/2005 4:04:03 PM EDT
Hi all.

I'm looking to apply for a target/hunting permit sometime, and I need some advice. I'm 40, a member of senior management for my firm, and have a old misdemenor record. When I was 18, I was convicted on assault 3rd and crim poss of a weapon 4th from an incident and given probation, which was ended early. I was convicted (again) for pettit larceny at 20 for assisting a friend use a credit card to buy something, I was caught, but didn't give him up, so I took the charge. I was a stupid kid, but nevertheless, I have that record. Not even a ticket since.

Ok, one speeding ticket 6 years ago....

When I was 22, I applied and was denied. I would really like to try again, but I want to do it right. Do I need an attorney? (I have access to one, my boss, the COO of the firm is (and is aware of my record))

I would apperciate any advice/recommendations

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 5:27:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 5:31:33 PM EDT
I appreciate the reply. If it doesn't help, I guess my only alternative is a move to ct...
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 6:05:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2005 6:08:20 PM EDT by rkbar15]
Yes, you should get a criminal defense attorney (preferably in White Plains) who is experienced with obtaining pistol permits and knows the investigators in the WC Clerks Office as well as the County Court Judges.

You should discuss the following with your attorney before you do anything and follow his/her advice but if you do the leg work yourself you can save yourself considerable expense. If you need a recommendation for an attorney I will try and find someone who can help you in WC.

You need to verify what records exist, verify what you were convicted of and verify what the recorded disposition is for all charges. This is very important. From your post it appears you were convicted of three Class A misdemeanors in NYS. Your conviction for Criminal Possession of a weapon 4th is a “serious offense” and a bar for issuance of a PL in NYS.

1. Do you have a current copy of your DCJS criminal history record? If not go here and get it: criminaljustice.state.ny.us/ojis/recordreview.htm

2. Do you have a copy of your FBI Identification Record? If not go here and get it: www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/fprequest.htm

3. You said that you previously applied for a PL and was denied. Was this in WC and do you have a copy of your application and the specific reasons for the denial? If not, you need to obtain a copy of all records associated with your application from the agency where you filed your application.

4. Did you get a certificate of relief from disabilities? If not you need to do that.

dpca.state.ny.us/prob_faq.htm#22

CERTIFICATE OF RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES

On occasion, an applicant who was convicted for a felony or serious offense submits pursuant to Correction Law Section 701, a certificate of relief from disabilities. This certificate neither requires nor prevents the issuance of a pistol license. The Penal Law, Sec. 400(1) provides that a pistol license may not be issued to a person who has been convicted of a felony or serious offense, but Correction Law Sec. 701 states that, once a certificate is granted, the conviction to which it relates may no longer be considered a conviction for purposes of that Penal Law provision.

Thus the certificate removes the absolute disqualification established for convicted persons in Penal Law Sec. 400(1). This does not mean, however, that the license must be issued. The applicant's background may still be evaluated, including the conviction, in making the decision to issue the license. The certificate must be checked off in box (C) and the details for box (C) must indicate, “For the purpose of obtaining a pistol license”, Correction Law Section 701(3) states: A certificate of relief from disabilities shall not, however, in any way prevent any judicial, administrative, licensing or other body, board or authority from relying upon the conviction specified therein as the basis for the exercise of its discretionary power to suspend, revoke, refuse to issue or refuse to renew any license, permit or other authority or privilege.

Some more info on a CORFD: www.hirenetwork.org/pdfs/certificates_of_rehabilitation.pdf
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 6:09:59 PM EDT
Appears as excellent information. I will take under advisment.
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 6:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2005 6:23:50 PM EDT by rkbar15]
You don't need to answer this but you should have been granted youthful offender status for the assault and weapons charges which would have vacated your two most serious convictions. Are you sure you weren't?

ETA: I'm not sure if CT will issue you a CCW. Have you confirmed that?
Link Posted: 11/3/2005 6:29:17 PM EDT
pretty sure. Again, apparently I need a experienced (and expensive) attorney for this. Any recommendations?
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 9:18:43 AM EDT
You might want to contact S.C.O.P.E. in NY about an attorney reference. If you were turned down 18 years ago, with nothing happening in the interim, you have a good shot at obtaining the permit now.

In hindsight, Im sure you now realise what a bad idea it was to apply for a permit in this shithole state just a couple years after getting an arrest and conviction. I know your ability to own fiearms is not hindered by the conviction since it wasnt a felony. But in NY, for all intents and purposes, it might as well have been

Did they deny the permit back then, or simply ask you to withdraw the application? Reason I ask is because in my county (Erie) , they ask a question on the application if you have ever been denied for a pistol permit anywhere in the state?
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 10:24:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2005 10:28:55 AM EDT by rkbar15]
A conviction for "criminal poss of a weapon 4th" is classified as a "serious offense" and as such is an automatic bar for the issuance of Pistol License in NYS. His possible recourse is to remove that bar with a "certificate of relief from disabilities".

The application form is standard throughout NYS and must be approved by the NYSP with the possible exception of NYC. Many counties require additional forms and releases to be filled out and submitted with the standard 1 page application. The six yes/no questions including whether you were ever denied a license etc. is the same in every county.

His NYS rap sheet will indicate a "pistol permit inquiry" when he applied the last time. If he was denied in WC previously they will likely have his records on file in the WC Police Pistol Permit Office.
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 11:16:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
A conviction for "criminal poss of a weapon 4th" is classified as a "serious offense" and as such is an automatic bar for the issuance of Pistol License in NYS. His possible recourse is to remove that bar with a "certificate of relief from disabilities"



Is there a list of all auto bar offenses and is it the same throughout the state?

Also, how the hell do you remember all this stuff rkbar? Is it part of a job you do? Good stuff.
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 12:54:17 PM EDT
AUTOMATIC BARS FOR A PISTOL LICENSE
1- Failing to indicate on the application that they had been confined to any hospital or institution,
public or private for mental illness.
2- Convicted anywhere for a felony or serious offense.*
* Certificate of Relief from Civil Disabilities must be obtained to lift bar for a felony or serious offense.
SERIOUS OFFENSES AS PER 265.00 DEFINITIONS SUB. 17 OF THE PENAL LAW
PRESENT PENAL LAW
120.45 Stalking in the fourth degree (12-1-99)
120.50 Stalking in the third degree (12-1-99)
125.60 Issuing abortional articles.
130.00 Offenses defined in Art. 130. (Sec Offenses), sections 130.20 Sexual misconduct; Rape,
all degrees; Consensual sodomy; Sodomy, all degrees; Sexual abuse, all degrees;
Aggravated Sexual, abuse all degrees; Course of sexual conduct against a child, all
degrees.
140.45 Possession of burglar's tools.
165.25 Jostling
165.30 Fraudulent accosting
165.40 Criminal Possession of stolen property 3rd.
220.00 Criminal possession of a controlled substance, all degrees; Criminal sale of a controlled
substance, all degrees, Criminal sale of a controlled substance in or near school grounds,
Criminal possession hypodermic instrument; Criminal injection of a narcotic drug;
Criminally using drug paraphernalia, all degrees; Criminal possession of precursors of
controlled substances; Criminal sale of a prescription for a controlled substance.
230.40 Promoting prostitution 3rd;
235.00 Obscenity and related offenses defined in section 235, sections 235.05 Obscenity 3rd;
235.06 2nd; 235.07 1st; 235.10 Obscenity; presumptions; 235.15Obscenity or disseminating
indecent material to minors 2nd; 235.21 Disseminating indecent material to minors 2nd;
235.22 1st;
240.35.3 Loitering - public place for engaging, or soliciting to engage with another, in deviate
sexual intercourse or other sexual behavior of a deviate nature.
260.10 Endangering the welfare of a child.
265.01 sub.1 Criminal Possession of a weapon 4th; - Possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun,
gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack,
bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot
or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star. 265.01 sub.2 Criminal Possession of a weapon
4th; - Possession with intent to use against another, dagger, dangerous knife, dirk,
razor, stiletto, imitation pistol. (07-16-90)
400.00 sub.11- For the purposes of section 400.00, the term serious offense shall include a willful
failure to obey a lawful order of protection issued under article eight of the family court
act or section 530.12 of the criminal procedure law, where such willful failure involves the
infliction of serious physical injury, as defined in subdivision ten of section 10.00 of
chapter, or the use or threatened use of a deadly weapon or dangerous
instrument, as those terms are defined in subdivisions twelve and thirteen of section
10.00 of this chapter. (10-06-93)
2
OLD PENAL LAW - PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 1, 1967
Art. 33 Public health law relating to narcotic drugs which was defined as a misdemeanor by section
1751a.
Art. 33A Public Health Law relating to depressant and stimulant drugs defined as a misdemeanor by
section 1747b.
Art. 106 Sodomy or rape which was designated as a misdemeanor.
235.20 Disseminating indecent material to minors. (old 484 sub. h).
405 Unlawful entry of a building.
408 Making or possession burglar instruments.
483 Endangering life or health of a child.
483 sub.b Carnal abuse of child over 10 and under 16 years of age.
690 See Art. 106.
722 sub.6 Disorderly Conduct (Jostling.)
722 sub.8 Disorderly Conduct (Loiters for purpose of committing a crime against nature or other
lewdness.
1308 Buying or receiving stolen property.
1696 Aiding escape from prison.
1751 sub.a See Art. 33
1747 sub.b See Art. 33A
1897 sub.1 Illegally using, carrying or possessing a pistol or other dangerous weapon.
3- Who has not had a license revoked or who is not under a suspension or ineligibility order issued
pursuant to the provisions of section 530.14 of the criminal procedure law (Mandatory and permissive
suspension of firearms license and issuance of temporary order of protection by the courts pursuant to
subdivision one of section 530.12 or subdivision one of section 530.13) or section 842(a) of the family
court act (court order of protection).
DISAPPROVALS DUE TO BRADY BILL 18 U.S.C. 922(g)
1- Who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
2- Who is a fugitive from justice.
3- Who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
4- Who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
5- Who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
6- Who, having been a citizen of the United States , has renounced his citizenship.
7- Who is subject to a court order that:
(A) Was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such
person has an opportunity to participate;
(B) Restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such
person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would
place an intimate
partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C) (i) Includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such
intimate partner or child, or
(ii) By its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force
against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
Federal Law now prohibits anyone from possessing firearms or ammunition if they are convicted of a
misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. The term misdemeanor crime of domestic violence means
"any offense defined as a State or Federal misdemeanor, whether or not explicitly described in a statute
as a crime of domestic violence, which has, as its factual basis, the use or attempted use of physical
force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon, committed by the victim's current or former domestic
partner, parent or guardian." The term, "convicted" is generally defined in the statute as excluding
anyone whose conviction has been expunged or been set aside, or anyone who has received a pardon.
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 1:04:42 PM EDT
165.25 Jostling


What is "jostling?"
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 2:10:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2005 4:40:55 PM EDT by mchad]
Lockedandloaded -

Yes, if I only knew then, what I know now... Nothing has happened since, except being a witness in a murder trial in NYC, where my testimony helped put a 16 y.o. scumbag in jail for killing a college student on his way to a party in my neighborhood... I should have hit the DA up to expunge my record, since it was in NYC. Damn.

To answer your question, my original permit app. was denied. The rude Rye police chief (at the time) called me in for an interview, and before I even sat down, he said, "don't bother, I'm not giving you a damn permit" Nice. But then again, it was stupid applying at that point. I got a letter in the mail a few weeks later with the news.
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 2:12:32 PM EDT
What is "S.C.O.P.E."?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 2:41:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sherm8404:
165.25 Jostling


What is "jostling?"



When your wife or GF has her way with you while you're sleeping.

Pick pockets get charged with jostling.
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 2:43:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mchad:
What is "S.C.O.P.E."?

Thanks



scopeny.org/

I called someone for you but he hasn't got back to me yet.
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 2:46:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 2:52:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2005 12:33:18 PM EDT by Helldog40]
Speaking of consensual sodomy WTF is Helldog? I have fantasized for oh so long for him to sexually abuse me. What's a flaming closet queen to do?
Link Posted: 11/4/2005 4:34:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2005 12:33:33 PM EDT by Helldog40]

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Speaking of consensual sodomy WTF is Helldog?I have fantasized for oh so long for him to sexually abuse me. What's a flaming closet queen to do?



Link Posted: 11/5/2005 12:31:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/5/2005 1:14:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2005 1:20:12 PM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By Helldog40:
NE Pa, about 30 miles west of the NY/PA border on I-84.



You officially suck little green donkey dicks.


ETA: Bastage. I just noticed your handiwork above.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:25:11 AM EDT
Bump for Hafellafuse.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:11:49 PM EDT
THANKS!!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:45:55 PM EDT
mchad

NO PERMIT FOR YOU!

APPLICATION DENIED
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:58:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:48:03 AM EDT
helpful, thanks
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:07:53 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:11:43 PM EDT
"18, I was convicted on assault 3rd and crim poss of a weapon 4th from an incident and given probation, which was ended early. I was convicted (again) for pettit larceny at 20 for assisting a friend use a credit card to buy something, I was caught, but didn't give him up, so I took the charge."

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but you will not be granted a permit in NY for such SERIOUS convictions.

Youthful indiscretion are forgiven sometimes, but rarely if ever forgotten.

At 18 & 20 you're beyond "youthful indiscretion" for these types of acts. I don't want it to seem like I'm judging you, but you remind me of some "stupid kids" I grew up with who did things not realizing the long term ramifications of their actions.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:30:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigZ:
"18, I was convicted on assault 3rd and crim poss of a weapon 4th from an incident and given probation, which was ended early. I was convicted (again) for pettit larceny at 20 for assisting a friend use a credit card to buy something, I was caught, but didn't give him up, so I took the charge."

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but you will not be granted a permit in NY for such SERIOUS convictions.

Youthful indiscretion are forgiven sometimes, but rarely if ever forgotten.

At 18 & 20 you're beyond "youthful indiscretion" for these types of acts. I don't want it to seem like I'm judging you, but you remind me of some "stupid kids" I grew up with who did things not realizing the long term ramifications of their actions.




Do you work for the NYS pistol licencing department in any capacity?

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:26:32 PM EDT
As I understand it, the poss wep 4th is the only conv. mentioned that prevents an an issue, and with a issuance of a relief of civil disabilities, that removes the statutary bar. (which I am applying for) so unless you are speaking from experience, please keep your OPINIONS to yourself.


Thanks
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:23:36 AM EDT
Have you ever been NICS see what comes up?

I guess you would have to if you own long guns unless you buy private
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:38:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 7:39:01 AM EDT by mchad]
Sure, I pass NICS all the time. Ok, not "all the time", I don't buy THAT MANY rifles, but I just bought a Rem 700p from a dealer last month, no problem...
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:46:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mchad:
Sure, I pass NICS all the time. Ok, not "all the time", I don't buy THAT MANY rifles, but I just bought a Rem 700p from a dealer last month, no problem...



And thats the sad part of NYS. You will ALWAYS pass the NICS check. You are not a criminal that is prevented from owning firearms based on the federal laws. But here in the shithole state of NY, you are just as guilty as a felon when it comes to handguns. They hold the dangling carrot! Fuckers.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:46:40 PM EDT
-I'll keep my OPINIONS to myself. Good Luck with your application.

If you're granted a permit in Westchester please post it, then I'll know the world will be coming to end shortly thereafter.

-sherm8404-I don't know somethig you don't. But, I Do know some very friendly people in White Plains.

APPLICATION DENIED


sorry...just couldn't resist one last time- it's just that it looks so....official.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:09:11 AM EDT

APPLICATION DENIED

sorry...just couldn't resist one last time- it's just that it looks so....official.




Whatever makes you happy. I have some quarters so you can play some videogames at Nathans if you want...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:17:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigZ:
-sherm8404-I don't know somethig you don't. But, I Do know some very friendly people in White Plains.



You know, actually it's pretty sad. Instead of acting like a fool, having your fun with this thread, one might have offered to help, that is, depending upon just how, "friendly" these people of yours are...

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:54:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mchad:

Originally Posted By BigZ:
-sherm8404-I don't know somethig you don't. But, I Do know some very friendly people in White Plains.



You know, actually it's pretty sad. Instead of acting like a fool, having your fun with this thread, one might have offered to help, that is, depending upon just how, "friendly" these people of yours are...




Ignore him, he's just being a tool. Nuff said.

I will email you as I get the info. I think we talked to the same lawyer in NYC. He had good news. IM or email me for details.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:42:46 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:36:12 AM EDT
Again, I apologize for having some fun with this topic & you.

I'm a gun owners rights advocate. But based on your past actions, I don't believe you will be nor should be granted a permit.
You asked for and received some help on this board where a free exchange of ideas with a little dose of moral and ethical piety at times is and should always be welcomed.

I doubt I'm the only person on this board who feels as I do about your situation.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:06:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigZ:
I'm a gun owners rights advocate. But based on your past actions, I don't believe you will be nor should be granted a permit.



He's not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal law, he could legally possess a handgun without a license in the other 49 states and he is not prohibited from possessing a long gun in NYS.

BTW, it's up to a WC Judge to either grant or deny his license application and not the WCC office. If the Judge denies his application he/she must state the reason(s) for the denial and if the applicant chooses to he/she may appeal the decision.

Personally I would "tell" NY to shove their outdated, ineffective and arbitrary licensing/registration system up their ass and move to another state.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:23:24 AM EDT
I would definitely appeal any negative ruling. I do background investigations for DoD. One of the things the adjudicators that take in our investigations look at is the recency of the issue and the 'whole person' concept. This happened 22 years ago, more than half your lifetime ago. As RKBar said, go for the Certificate of Relief.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:52:55 AM EDT
I am definitly proceeding... I have an attorney applying for a cert rel/dis in the NYC courts, and am looking for the "right" attorney in White Plains (albiet with no sucess yet... Any recommendations would be appreciated)

What's the worse that can happen? I'm out a few bucks... Or worse, I move to Ct. ;-)

Thanks for the feedback.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:53:19 AM EDT
NYSRPA recommended:

Charles Giulini
212-725-5411

He's in the city but does travel. The lady I talked to at NYSRPA said he's a pitbull.
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