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Posted: 9/16/2003 6:54:29 AM EDT
Is the following legal?

Driving from Nassau County to Calverton in Suffolk.
Locked, hard cased, unloaded AR-15 transported in trunk or behind last seat in a minivan.
Loaded 20 and 30 round mags stored in separate unlocked ammo can behind front seat.

If illegal, what can make it right?

this is all just hypothetical, of course (-:
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 8:06:32 AM EDT
I'm not a lawyer, but that seems fine to me
when I go to the rang both my guns and ammo are either in the back seat or the cargo area of my trailblazer, with nothing locked. Ammot is not in the guns though and usually is not even in the magazines
I looked through the weapons possesion law but didn't see anything either way, but it's really long and I didn't read it word for word
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c82/a68.html

this is completely my opinion, so don't go by it unless it's backed up, but I think I read somewhere that having a pistol permit exempts you from the loaded firearm restrictions
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 6:21:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2003 7:11:17 PM EDT by rkbar15]
In NYS there is no requirement that a long gun be in a locked case or separate from the ammunition. It must be unloaded in chamber and magazine. That being said if I transport a long gun in in a MV I keep the ammo in a separate locked container and the guns in a locked hard case when either in the trunk or the passenger compartment. I interpret a magazine to mean a fixed magazine. YMMV.

What the ENCON law says:

2. No firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is unloaded in both the
chamber and the magazine, .......

The above does not take into consideration any local or federal law and is not a legal opinion.

Link Posted: 9/17/2003 10:12:12 AM EDT

You asked for legal and opinion in the same sentence, and that is asking for trouble. My legal opinion may get you thrown in jail!

--------


What the ENCON law says:


OK, I am a fool... What the hell is ENCON?


------ADVERTISMENT--------
Calverton Shoot 9/28/2003
------ADVERTISMENT--------
Link Posted: 9/17/2003 12:36:49 PM EDT
Sorry. ENCON is the Environmental Conservation Law which is one of the laws that specifies how firearms are to be transported within NYS.
Link Posted: 9/17/2003 2:56:01 PM EDT
Bill3rail,
Good point---OK, for you LEOs especially out there, is it legal to drive from Nassau to Calverton with an unloaded AR-15 in its case and loaded mags for it in a separate container? A Hunter education course instructor is saying otherwise although I do not have chapter and verse as to where that law is written. Seems a bit of overkill and is certainly a pain in the a to have to load mags at the range.
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 4:24:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2003 5:01:44 PM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By pequa1:
OK, for you LEOs especially out there, is it legal to drive from Nassau to Calverton with an unloaded AR-15 in its case and loaded mags for it in a separate container? A Hunter education course instructor is saying otherwise although I do not have chapter and verse as to where that law is written. Seems a bit of overkill and is certainly a pain in the a to have to load mags at the range.



OK here is the full chapter and verse. I interpret "unloaded in chamber and magazine" to mean a magazine that is not detachable from the firearm. YMMV. I'll call my local ENCON officer and ask him his opinion. NY law is frequently not clear as written.

Environmental Conservation Law

TITLE 9 HUNTING

11-0931. Prohibitions on the use and possession of firearms.

2. No firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is unloaded in both the
chamber and the magazine, except that a loaded firearm which may be legally used for taking migratory game birds may be carried or possessed in a motorboat while being legally used in hunting migratory game birds, and no person except a law enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties shall, while in or on a motor vehicle, use a jacklight, spotlight or other artificial light upon lands inhabited by deer if he is in possession or is accompanied by a person who is in possession, at the time of such use, of a longbow, crossbow or a firearm of any kind except a pistol or revolver, unless such longbow is unstrung or such firearm is taken down or securely fastened in a case or locked in the trunk of the vehicle. For purposes of this subdivision, motor vehicle shall mean every vehicle or other device operated by any power other than muscle power, and which shall include but not be limited to automobiles, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, trailers and motorboats, snowmobiles and snowtravelers, whether operated on or off public highways. Notwithstanding the provisions of this subdivision, the department may issue a permit to any person who is non-ambulatory, except with the use of a mechanized aid, to possess a loaded firearm in or on a motor vehicle as defined in this section, subject to such restrictions as the department may deem necessary in the interest of public safety, and for a fee of five dollars. Nothing in this section permits the possession of a pistol or a revolver contrary to the penal law.


Just to further confuse the issue keep in mind that the definition of a loaded firearm in NY is:

Penal Law

ARTICLE 265 FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS

Section 265.00 Definitions.

.............

15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

Link Posted: 9/19/2003 3:29:46 AM EDT
RKbar15,
I appreciate all you are doing on this. I am also pestering a friend with the SCPD who is a certified Hunter Education instructor as well and he feels same as you, that I am OK to transport unloaded AR and ammo if separate. If the instructor at Hunter Education was correct on Monday night, it has to be because of NY State Encon rules and regs, so I really appreciate you taking this one additional step.
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 5:00:51 AM EDT
You mean I can't drive from Valley Stream to Calverton with my AR on my back window gun rack?
And my ammo in a locked case in the front seat of my truck next to me?
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 5:04:06 AM EDT
not unless the rack holds a cased AR ! <grin>
As usual on this site- thanks for all the help and advice!
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 6:59:06 AM EDT
Actually NYS law does not specify how to transport a legally possessed long gun by a NYS resident in a MV as long as it's unloaded in both chamber and magazine. It also does not specify how to transport your ammo. Years ago it was not uncommon to see gun racks in PU trucks in upstate NY. No I wouldn't advise that you do that on LI!

If you are a non-resident traveling interstate through NYS you must be in compliance with federal law which does specify how your ammo/firearms must be transported.

Where is Aimless and Phil_A_Steen in this thread? They be the real lawyers!
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 7:10:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2003 7:17:07 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 8:21:27 AM EDT
Thanks Aimless. AFAIK the PL doesn't make any reference to a long gun "magazine" in a MV. The only reference AFAIK is under the ENCON law. I believe the reference to a magazine is a magazine integral to the rifle/shotgun and not a detachable magazine.

How about a loaded enbloc clip for a Garand in a MV? Is that illegal in NY?

I gotta get out of this state and move to Vermont!
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 8:31:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 1:05:18 PM EDT
Sooooooooooooo, I have to bring my ammo on stripper clips and using a "spoon" put them in the mags at the range, in order to be sure I am not in violation. How did the sign go that that guy who owned the Oak Beach Inn have distributed everywhere? Get out of NY before its too late. Its too late !
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 3:18:05 PM EDT
Gee, I just throw $RIFLES into the back of my Wrangler, toss in a pile of loaded mags and whatnot, and drive the 2.1 miles to the range...

Course, when I come back, all the mags are empty for each rifle, save one apiece...(just in case, ya know. Never know when some hoodies from Newburgh might decide to take out their gat and steal some more weapons from someone headin back from the range...it hasen't happened yet, but it's only a matter of time. Yah, I get paranoid about that shit.)

Just ask GunnyG...last range trip, I had an uncased AUG and an uncased BAR in the back of my top-down Wrangler. *snicker* Passed a cop on the way home, too...(don't have cases that'll fit those, yet.)

Wonder how NY State law covers belt-fed rifles? Wonder what they'd say about something mounted on a pintle on my jeep's roll bars
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 4:39:19 PM EDT
EvilEd
If you were driving through the "city" the cops would ignore you, if you were out in the country ENCON would be on you for deer jackin. The MV laws are ENCON laws because they are more concerned with the poachers then with drive bys.
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 4:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AdirondakDD:
EvilEd
If you were driving through the "city" the cops would ignore you, if you were out in the country ENCON would be on you for deer jackin. The MV laws are ENCON laws because they are more concerned with the poachers then with drive bys.



Where the range is, it's all country. Not near a city of any size, except Newburgh.

The rifles I usually have in the back...well, they'd make suitable hunting arms, but would you consider a Garand a suitable hunting arm? No scope, semi, etc. Not to mention it holds more than the 5 round limit

I'm not "horribly" worried about that. IF I want to hunt, it's a trivial process to get a permit to do so. It's worth the time and effort to get one, to shoot enough meat to last a year.

Link Posted: 9/20/2003 5:06:39 PM EDT
I guess geography makes a difference here. I have a n ATV that I mount my hunting gun on, its in a hard case for protection I could carry it across the handle bars. Its a 20 gauge shot gun, a legal arm for hunting deer. I keep the ammo in my pocket. I travel by ATV about 500 yards into private property to my deer blind. The ATV is a MV by ENCON definition. As long as the gun is unloaded and the clip or mag is also unloaded I am ENCON legal. If I hunt were rifles are legal I would use my Remington 700, I may carry the clip in my pocket loaded, this is illegal, but if you dont drive 100MPH with your radio blastin rap or rock NO ONE CARES, in the country.
My point Dont give them an excuse to pull you over.
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