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Posted: 2/19/2006 2:23:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 3:22:50 PM EDT by rogue007]
FALARAK this is for you per your request................I found much more!

I bought this yesterday at Dallas' Big Town gunshow from Dallas Reloading. I bought a 1Krd. case from them
and inspected every single case, with these mixed up in with them.

The casings in the bulk were a mix of .223 Lake City, REM and WIN

I was also shorted 53 rounds, I counted them also. So in total they shorted me 80 rounds total, because I cant shoot
the faulty bullets.

I buy from them not expecting this. Everyone buying from them please take a few minutes to check out each bullet before it
goes into your mags for shooting, it could save your life.



These cases have major dents and the necks were torn and holes also exposed.


LINK TO HI_RES PICTURE FOR BETTER VEIWING
home.comcast.net/~jeepgc_4x4/rogue2.jpg
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:51:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:55:59 PM EDT
Well, I live in the Dallas area and most people dont read GD..........this is for my DFW brothers.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:05:44 PM EDT
That is seriously fucked up. I stopped buying from them years ago due to quality issues, but that is insane.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:10:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
That is seriously fucked up. I stopped buying from them years ago due to quality issues, but that is insane.



Yeah, me too! However, some people in the TX forum seem to think I am FOS when I mention I've had problems with them in the past. (see recent thread).

Oh yeah, and who the fuck "counts" their ammo anyway, let alone inspect it!!!?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:18:16 PM EDT
That's always a risk of buying remanufactured ammo. Did you at least take it back to them and get a refund? I'd would think that Bob(name?) or Lamar would at least try to make it right.

I know a few people that buy lots of it and swear by it and some that swear at it. From my experience all of the local remanuctured is loaded on the hot side. Southwest Ammo rolls their own too, but in much smaller quantities.


mm
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:22:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 3:22:30 PM EDT by Tonster]
Just handling marks

ETA I'll stick with Wolf!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:40:55 PM EDT
I just e-mailed them and the e-mail returned "cannot deliver".........they dont even have a valid e-mail account.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:59:50 PM EDT
Rogue, sorry to hear about your bad lot bro. Hopefully they'll make it right for you.

And thanks for the heads-up! I bought 100 rds of .223 from them yesterday, and 200 rds of the same stuff from them at the rodeo show a few weeks ago - but haven't shot any of it yet. I'll damn sure look at mine tonight.... I've been buying from them for a while now, and haven't had a single issue. These last two times I bought from them, it's been the same brass ("once fired Win and Rem"). Apparantly, the Lake City was/is in short supply - I personally haven't seen any since last September....

For reloads, I've always thought they looked and performed pretty good (considering, they're reloads), and even though my Rock River eats Wolf like candy, I'd still much rather give my money to a local (American) company....

Again, sorry to hear about that, at the very least, I hope they swap it out for you.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:42:19 PM EDT

Well, I just checked out each of the 100 rounds(all there) of 68 grain "match" ammo I got from them for the SEBR at the last Big Town show. There is one that has a deep dent like the one in your pic (second from the left side). No hole to the powder but more of a dent than I'd care to take a chance with. I'm wondering if it's caused by tumbling media stuck in the die? The edges are too sharp to be caused by excess lube I think.

About 10% have very minor dent/creases and the brass is mostly RP with a few Lake City mixed in. Until I figure out which surplus to stock up on (if any good stuff becomes available cheap) Winchester White Box and Black Hills Blue Box will be my choice from now on.

This is the first purchase I've made from these folks. All I can say is, check EVERY round you buy from these guys, your life may depend on it.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:43:46 PM EDT
I've shot many thousands of .223 rounds from Dallas Reloading Supply.

I've never had a problem.

Yeah, an occasionaly dented case, like maybe 20 or so out of 10K rounds.

I've never had a squib or a kaboom and I run it in a RR and will keep doing so.

I think you just got a bad batch.

That being said I don't like their FMJ 9mm, too weak in the UZI.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:28:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By teknofear:
I'll damn sure look at mine tonight....



a small sampling, but please post your findings...
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:44:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 4:45:30 AM EDT by mikejohnson]

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Well, I just checked out each of the 100 rounds(all there) of 68 grain "match" ammo I got from them for the SEBR at the last Big Town show. There is one that has a deep dent like the one in your pic (second from the left side). No hole to the powder but more of a dent than I'd care to take a chance with. I'm wondering if it's caused by tumbling media stuck in the die? The edges are too sharp to be caused by excess lube I think.

About 10% have very minor dent/creases and the brass is mostly RP with a few Lake City mixed in. Until I figure out which surplus to stock up on (if any good stuff becomes available cheap) Winchester White Box and Black Hills Blue Box will be my choice from now on.

This is the first purchase I've made from these folks. All I can say is, check EVERY round you buy from these guys, your life may depend on it.



Out of a small 100rd sampling of their "match" ammo, for you nay-sayers, this confirms/backs up Rogue's post. I've seen the ammo up close, its bad.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:55:42 AM EDT
Before bedtime last night, I dug out my ammo from them. My recent purchases looked good ("Once Fired 55gr FMJ", 300 rds purchased in the last 3 weeks). Mostly Remington and Winchester casings. No dings, dents, holes, etc, - nothing like the casings depicted in Rogues images. Now there were a few scratches here and there, but no deep scarring - just a few cosmetic scratches/abrasions. The qtys jive too (100 each, respectively).

Not to sound like an apologist here, but hypothetically, I think it would make good sense for them to batch their good (cosmetic) stuff in smaller quantities for display at the shows? And consequently put the not so good looking stuff into large lots (something that you really won't see until later). I don't neccessarily (sp?) agree with that practice, but it makes sense.

Over the years, I've never bought anything more than a few hundred rounds at a time from them, mainly because I can see specifically what I'm getting (packaged in clear plastic bags). I've always made it a point to look closely at the casings to see what brass they were using. For the longest time, it was always Lake City, and it always looked good, never a problem.

I hope this will be a wake up call for them. I'd hate to see them not do right by their customers.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:00:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:03:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 7:04:48 AM EDT by mikejohnson]
yeah, if they count them by hand and package in small quantities, I can see where they'd find defects easily... buying in bulk, it would be hard for them to inspect each one.

but then again, oulufinn found a defective one in his 100rd bag...

However, apparently this isn't the only case Rogue has found defective ammo. As he said in his first post, "FALARAK this is for you per your request................I found much more!"
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:04:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:28:40 AM EDT
Thanks for the input ROGUE. Be sure to let them know, as I have shot thousands of rounds with out a problem. I usually get the 55gr FMJ for cutting cardboard and the match stuff of comps. Guess I will start to tke a closer look and count............................
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:43:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By roseco:

Originally Posted By rogue007:
I just e-mailed them and the e-mail returned "cannot deliver".........they dont even have a valid e-mail account.




How 'bout you call them? That's what they make telephones for. Dallas Reloading has been around for a lot of years and there's a reason why they are still around. I'm sure they will take care of you.



I think he will call them when he has time, but he tried email first... and being that yesterday was a Sunday, I doubt their shop was open, and driving back down to the show is a waste of time/gas... Are you open on Sundays, besides gun shows?

I think they will take care of him too, but I think its good he is warning others, and its something several people cannot believe, even with the pictures... However, now people are coming out of the woodwork with their issues too... Hmm...
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:52:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chas_martel:
I've shot many thousands of .223 rounds from Dallas Reloading Supply.

I've never had a problem.

Yeah, an occasionaly dented case, like maybe 20 or so out of 10K rounds.

I've never had a squib or a kaboom and I run it in a RR and will keep doing so.

I think you just got a bad batch.




+1
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:55:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By chas_martel:
I've shot many thousands of .223 rounds from Dallas Reloading Supply.

I've never had a problem.

Yeah, an occasionaly dented case, like maybe 20 or so out of 10K rounds.

I've never had a squib or a kaboom and I run it in a RR and will keep doing so.

I think you just got a bad batch.




+1



This is his third batch just like this... only he posted pics cus Falarak suggested it.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:58:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:59:58 AM EDT
I would fire every one of those cases, except the one with the hole in it.

However - I am concerned about their quality control:

1. Typically bulk loose ammo is sold by weight - so obviously their calculations are off.

2. There should be some culling/inspection process done, which obviously isnt very effective. This raises the price, however.

3. The fact that I have been seeing a lot of "mixed" headstamp leads me to believe they arent getting 100% front line military once fired brass anymore.... which means their brass might not even BE "once fired".


So my question is this: how, in your minds, does this stack up to XM193PD, and XM855PD? We have seen the same issues.... shorted rounds, dents, and add loose bullets, improper seating, etc. And people pay $180/K for that stuff!

In my opinion.... buying local Dallas reloading for $150/K, and doing a cursory inspection as you load you mags.... is still a decent deal.

But I would rather buy good surplus at the same price... if it were available.

I think the best deal Dallas Reloading has going, is their soft point ammo. Since so many of the area ranges require SP/HP ammo.... Dallas reloading SP ammo is roughly HALF the cost of commercially available SP ammo. If you dont shoot at a range that requires this, then I can see not using DR ammo.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:05:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 8:06:02 AM EDT by mikejohnson]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
I would fire every one of those cases, except the one with the hole in it.



I agree about the XM193PD comparrison, in fact I mentioned the same on one of these threads....

my concern is the ones that are seated improperly-- with the brass peeled and wedged inside,making the the crimp thicker... won't that be a pressure problem especially for .223 chambers since this is .223 REM ammo?? and maybe an issue in 5.56 chambers???
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:18:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:24:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 8:25:41 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
my concern is the ones that are seated improperly-- with the brass peeled and wedged inside,making the the crimp thicker... won't that be a pressure problem especially for .223 chambers since this is .223 REM ammo?? and maybe an issue in 5.56 chambers???



It absolutely could.... but more likely would just be a fail to chamber. Those in that picture are all very minor, except for one in the middle.

Check out S&B. They have a HIGH rate of split case necks and crushed necks like seen above.... and yet it still goes bang every time. Some people seem to like it.

After picking up 1000's of rounds of their brass at the hun farm, I have seen a massive amount of crushed necks on S&B ammo, that fired fine in whatever gun, and didnt show any other signs of overpressure on the case head.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:20:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
I would fire every one of those cases, except the one with the hole in it.



I agree about the XM193PD comparrison, in fact I mentioned the same on one of these threads....

my concern is the ones that are seated improperly-- with the brass peeled and wedged inside,making the the crimp thicker... won't that be a pressure problem especially for .223 chambers since this is .223 REM ammo?? and maybe an issue in 5.56 chambers???



Actually, now that you mention it I did have a problem with 1 round of DRS ammo that is similar to what you describe. I had a round in a mag fail to feed all the way into the chamber of one of my ARs, and it got stuck in there TIGHT. I couldn't even move the bolt with the charging handle. After banging it on the ground for about 5 minutes I was able to dislodge the round and upon inspection I discovered that a portion of the neck had peeled back and was folded on top of the case (thereby making the case too large to feed all the way into the chamber...or so I am assuming). I've never seen a gun jam that badly.

Gives me something to think about.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:58:46 AM EDT
I cant get ahold of these people...............
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:03:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 12:07:58 PM EDT by rogue007]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By MST2:
Here is the 3 step solution for you:

1. Stop your whining.
2. Quit being a pussy.
3. And shoot that fucking ammo.



+1




I am going to load this ammo for you in a mag next time we go to a shoot and watch you fire it in your gun.......your braver than me..........
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:41:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
I cant get ahold of these people...............



Dude, shut up.

You bought reloads and you found a few bad ones. OK, so what? Did you expect every single round to be perfect...like new factory ammo? If so, then why didn't you fork over the extra money and buy factory ammo from someone else? I was at Big Town on Saturday and I saw a few people selling ammo.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:28:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By rogue007:
I cant get ahold of these people...............hr


Dude, shut up.

You bought reloads and you found a few bad ones. OK, so what? Did you expect every single round to be perfect...like new factory ammo? If so, then why didn't you fork over the extra money and buy factory ammo from someone else? I was at Big Town on Saturday and I saw a few people selling ammo.




Wow, what a response.

Those a more than a few bad ones.

Anyone who would shoot that stuff is STUPID or has HUGE BALLS or both.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
I cant get ahold of these people...............



today is a holiday for some-- give them a ring tomorrow. Check out hte BR thread-- Delta posted a couple numbers.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:07:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By MST2:
Here is the 3 step solution for you:

1. Stop your whining.
2. Quit being a pussy.
3. And shoot that fucking ammo.



+1




I am going to load this ammo for you in a mag next time we go to a shoot and watch you fire it in your gun.......your braver than me..........



You are on.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:07:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChuckTuna:
Anyone who would shoot that stuff is STUPID or has HUGE BALLS or both.



So what are you trying to say?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:47:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
I cant get ahold of these people...............



They don't have an actual store. They just do gun shows and I think mail order. One lives a couple of miles north of Big Town. I can't seem to find their business card, or I'd send you the phone numbers, I'll keep looking.


mm
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:51:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mm38:

Originally Posted By rogue007:
I cant get ahold of these people...............



They don't have an actual store. They just do gun shows and I think mail order. One lives a couple of miles north of Big Town. I can't seem to find their business card, or I'd send you the phone numbers, I'll keep looking.


mm




from Delta on BR

Originally Posted by Delta@br...

Here is there number Bob Canning 972-279-9269
Lamar does the rifle ammo 972-556-2565

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:54:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:

Originally Posted by Delta@br...

Here is there number Bob Canning 972-279-9269
Lamar does the rifle ammo 972-556-2565




I have a different phone number.

IM sent.



mm
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:28:45 PM EDT
FWIW, I have been shooting their .223 reloads for about 7 years without a single solitary problem. Never had a problem with any of their guys at the shows either. Call them or go to Market Hall in March I guess.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:49:56 PM EDT
This is common practice for me...................


This is my 8th thousand round box from these guys and the last two boxes had these in them.
Not because of these I got but starting from the beginning I ALWAYS checked ammo before loading into mags.

1. It gives me somthing to do in front of the TV, instead of just watching TV.
2. My father always told me to do so, check for bad ammo before loading without learning the hard way.

Even if I bought WWB or even my cases of XM193 or Q3131/a I would still look before I loaded, its habit for me.
Hell, I even check pistol ammo. I see these rounds I got and expect to see this in bulk reload packs, but not this bad.
I am just using this for a warning for anyone here that uses this ammo from these guys to take a minute or thirty
and check them out before unloading down range.
This doesnt have to be about TX's counting of the wings because that is just retarded , this is about something possibly
blowing up in your face and possibly hurting you guys. I do not want to see some of you guys hurt.

Overall I am still going to purchase from them and get cheap blammo..........I think I might switch to Wolf if I am going to keep getting this kind of product.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:28:42 PM EDT

Amazing. I almost want to pull all the bullets in my hundred rounds to check powder charges too. This is rifle ammunition and it needs to have better quality control. I like a "deal" as much as the next guy but this is a clusterfuck. Black Hills Blue Box and Winchester White Box for me until some good milsurp comes available, no glass eyes for me.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:33:42 PM EDT
Funny, never heard of or experienced Wolf duds, or kabooms, so I guess they're only shit in this urban legend infested internet commando gathering which some would call a forum.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:34:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
Funny, never heard of or experienced Wolf duds, or kabooms, so I guess they're only shit in this urban legend infested internet commando gathering which some would call a forum.



What is your point, and who the hell were you referring to?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 7:40:20 PM EDT by MauserMark]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
Funny, never heard of or experienced Wolf duds, or kabooms, so I guess they're only shit in this urban legend infested internet commando gathering which some would call a forum.



What is your point, and who the hell were you referring to?



a joke man.

playing the famous line about wolf ammo that's so notorious on this forum. I like to poke fun at it.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:40:51 PM EDT
It means he needs to get out and shoot more.


Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:43:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 8:30:17 PM EDT by MauserMark]
basically what does wolf have to do with this problem he has? But he starts it, "yall think dat wolf is bad.."

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:01:19 PM EDT
I actually love Wolf, I just didnt want to shoot it in my AR's.

I want the AR's to be "use to" brass only, if you know what I mean.

I run nothing but Wolf in my AK's, no brass will ever hit the feedramp.

Since nobody likes Wolf in "their" AR's we insisted in using that line...."for those who think wolf.........", it looks
like somebody is pissed off and needs to blow some steam. I guess it was the weather this week-end that
ruined a lot of plans.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:57:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 3:59:46 AM EDT by TxLewis]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By ChuckTuna:
Anyone who would shoot that stuff is STUPID or has HUGE BALLS or both.



So what are you trying to say?




That your'e his kinda guy!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:07:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By ChuckTuna:
Anyone who would shoot that stuff is STUPID or has HUGE BALLS or both.



So what are you trying to say? h.gif




Well, Why in the hell would anyone risk blowing up an $800 or more rifle on a 15 cent relaod that should have been thrown away? Or worse yet forget the rifle, how about the personal injury that could result? Shoot all you want...some of us have more sense.


I think that is what I was trying to say........
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:17:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 5:19:17 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By ChuckTuna:
Well, Why in the hell would anyone risk blowing up an $800 or more rifle on a 15 cent relaod that should have been thrown away? Or worse yet forget the rifle, how about the personal injury that could result? Shoot all you want...some of us have more sense.


I think that is what I was trying to say........



Because I have been shooting and reloading long enough to know that those small dents are not a risk. They are a risk of chambering....and locking.... but if they chamber, they will exand out and fireform to your chamber upon ignition. Hyrdaulic dents, while not preferred, or pretty, pose very little risk of "blowing up" a rifle. Of course I will visually inspect them to make sure they are way out there.... but I only see MAYBE 2 that are even questionable.

Have you ever opened up XM193 or Q3131? They very often have small dents. Not as significant as some of these hydraulic ones.... but the ratio is the same. At least 2 or 3 out of every 100 has a pretty good ding.

So... do you have more sense, or so you just not understand?


(PS - I am gonna bump-fire all these rounds while I scream out your name. )
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:26:57 AM EDT
the ones with the dents might be okay-- but many have issues with improper bullet seating.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:29:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 5:32:00 AM EDT by ChuckTuna]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By ChuckTuna:
Well, Why in the hell would anyone risk blowing up an $800 or more rifle on a 15 cent relaod that should have been thrown away? Or worse yet forget the rifle, how about the personal injury that could result? Shoot all you want...some of us have more sense.


I think that is what I was trying to say........



Because I have been shooting and reloading long enough to know that those small dents are not a risk. They are a risk of chambering....and locking.... but if they chamber, they will exand out and fireform to your chamber upon ignition. Hyrdaulic dents, while not preferred, or pretty, pose very little risk of "blowing up" a rifle. Of course I will visually inspect them to make sure they are way out there.... but I only see MAYBE 2 that are even questionable.

Have you ever opened up XM193 or Q3131? They very often have small dents. Not as significant as some of these hydraulic ones.... but the ratio is the same. At least 2 or 3 out of every 100 has a pretty good ding.

So... do you have more sense, or so you just not understand? hese)



I've been around the shooting sports for a while myself. And you are probably right, wont cause any damage. But why risk it?

Yes, I have found a few dents in XM193, Never found any with the necks messed up like that though, I would never fire the ones that are as bad as the ones in the pics. I'll bet you'd use the forward assist to Jam them ito the chamber if they wouldn't fit, just to show you're a man?

In my mind It is a damn silly risk. But you seem intent on Proving that your nuts are bigger than the next guy's............, Have at it. I wont fire any amo that is as FUBAR as that. And I also aint ito comparing NUTS.


I wish you luck in your endeavors........

Chuck(The Ever so safe and STRAIGHT Redneck) Tuna
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