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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:49:29 PM EDT
Has the CHL qual. target changed from the TX-PT target to the B-27 target? Anyone know anything about this?

TC

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:14:05 PM EDT
yes...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:54:44 PM EDT
We used them for the first time this past Sunday.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:54:46 PM EDT
whats the difference?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Freakinout:
whats the difference?



The circles marking the kill zone or hits.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:43:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Freakinout:
whats the difference?



They've made an easy qualification, easier. The 5 ring/area is quite a bit larger now.

Just wondering what the reasoning is for the change. Too many people can't pass? Standardization with other states?

TC

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:51:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:49:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thunderchild:

Originally Posted By Freakinout:
whats the difference?



They've made an easy qualification, easier. The 5 ring/area is quite a bit larger now.

Just wondering what the reasoning is for the change. Too many people can't pass? Standardization with other states?

TC




Easier? I thought it was pretty easy the first time. Maybe I can go for a perfect score when my chl needs to be renewed.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:02:27 AM EDT
When I took the course (old target), there was a guy in the class who missed the entire target two out of his first five shots, at three yards.

So I guess it does need to be easier.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:33:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:36:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:45:16 PM EDT
The change is in response to DPS reviewing several shootings.

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:26:17 PM EDT
Anybody know where to take a CHL course in the East Texas Area?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:45:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 5:53:59 PM EDT by cnemikeman]
There are several quality CHL instructors in the East Texas area. In the Longview/Tyler/Kilgore area, I would recommend "Smitty" -- John and Trisha Smith. Husband/wife team who teach the class together. Good instruction, humor,too.
Farther north, I would recommend Marshall Robinson in Naples, TX (Morris County.)

Mike
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:53:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Triple_D:
When I took the course (old target), there was a guy in the class who missed the entire target two out of his first five shots, at three yards.

So I guess it does need to be easier.hr


Anyone that misses 2 out of 5 from three yards needs to put the pistol back in the box and forget about carrying it. I honestly think that you can hit that target blindfolded from 3 yards.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:54:42 AM EDT
My wife is going next month to get her CHL --- she'll be gald to hear it is "easier" - even though she has no problem hitting her target....

In my renewal class a couple of months ago the lady in the lane next to me shot my target ---- I'm squezzing off my first shot at 7 yards and my target jumps and sure enough there's a "by stander" shot lower right corner......
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:55:41 AM EDT
I had one instructor tell me there have been several legally blind folks pass the test. It ain't that hard. Is the scoring area bigger and does anyone have a pic of the new one?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:34:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 3:07:07 PM EDT by Thunderchild]
Here's the old TX-PT target.



The new B-27 style target.



TC

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:21:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:48:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Why would DPS review shootings and then make the qualification easier? TRG



They must have discovered that the bad guys are getting fatter and their heads are getting harder. A headshot is only worth 3 points now....
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 1:58:16 PM EDT
I just took the CHL class at Top Gun in Houston. They had the old blue target. They had some poor chick missing the target and the teacher was yelling at her every move. Hee Hee
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:18:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:
The change is in response to DPS reviewing several shootings.




Got any links?

Why would DPS review shootings and then make the qualification easier? Last I checked it was almost a no-brainer to qualify...?

TRG



My thoughts too.

TC
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:
The change is in response to DPS reviewing several shootings.




Got any links?

Why would DPS review shootings and then make the qualification easier? Last I checked it was almost a no-brainer to qualify...?

TRG



Its not a matter of making the qualification easier, but lowering the point of aim. Shooters who do not jerk the trigger tend to pull the front sight up and out of the "groove" of the rear sight when invloved in actual violent encounters. This is in response to them trying hard to see the front sight. When aiming at the area the old target focused you on, it would cause you to shoot high, often over the shoulders.

DPS did not make this change randomly or without much study and consideration. We discussed this at CHL instructor school.

Regarding head shots, most civilians, in most encounters, are best served shooting center mass. As the level of training increases, of course head shots become a more viable option as students become better shooters and more aware of the risks and limitations in head shots.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:41:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:56:24 PM EDT
The typical CHL holder is quite happy with his lack of skill, and wouldn't PAY for further training. Heck. They already think it's too hard. You are not going to get them in a classroom or range any more than absolutely necessary.

BTW: I had an 87 year old lady pass a class with a .38 snubbie. Had to stand behind her and "call the shot" onto the target.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:56:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 5:57:58 PM EDT by Schulze]

Originally Posted By Thunderchild:
Here's the old TX-PT target.

www.stayingalive.info/images/tx-pt.gif

The new B-27 style target.

tinypic.com/k3p3eh.gif

TC




At least we still get three points for a dick shot, which is apparently just as good as a headshot. I'm happy.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
At least we still get three points for a dick shot, which is apparently just as good as a headshot. I'm happy.



Either way, it's a head shot!

TC

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:36:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texastactical:
The old target was anatomically better than this new one in regards to neutralizing the threat.

How about more training instead creating a target to compensate for poor skill.



Based on what data? DPS is diligent in reviewing and formulating tactics and training to keep their Troopers alive. This target was changed based on Trooper shootings.

No disrespect intended, but I value DPS' reasoning more than anyone on the internet I don't know. To be fair, for all you know I could be a 13 year old girl repeating shit I read on some other forum. I guess its buyer beware on the internet. ;)
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:37:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 11:43:22 AM EDT by texastactical]
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:42:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:59:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texastactical:
www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/images/body/factfiles/organs_middle.jpg

As you can see the vital organs; heart and lungs, are in the upper chest and the brain is in the head

Now compare that to the old target:
www.stayingalive.info/images/tx-pt.gif

and compare it to the new target:
tinypic.com/k3p3eh.gif

It is plain to me which represents the vital zones more accurately.

I'm not saying the old dpt target is perfect but it definetely beats the new one.



Maybe they're trying to discourage head shots?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:26:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:04:40 AM EDT
I'm kinda torn. I can see the point of DPS presented here, but I can also see the point of Mike and others.

At my initial CHL shooting test, it was too easy to drill holes in the head at 3 yards. However, one stray shot by the target's left ear (miss) made me get serious, and aim where I know I will hit without fail. The CHL shooting test is just to make sure you can hit a man-sized target, not if you can make smiley faces in the head, like the Lethal Weapon movie.

Last year I had my renewal. While waiting to get started at the range, we were asked how many folks had shot their guns in the past year. Of 20 folks, 6 or so raised their hands. Then we were asked how many had shot their guns since the last renewal or initial CHL test. Of 20 folks, 10 raised their hands. That means 10 people hadn't shot their guns in FOUR YEARS! We had people (3 in the renewal class) who were shooting RENTED GLOCKS...meaning, they didn't have their own guns or guns suitable for carry (above .32 ACP).

Getting a CHL without range time, shooting, taking classes, etc. is like getting a drivers license and ALWAYS taking the bus. I don't get it.

I actually like Paul Howe's targets, which are the shape of a IDPA silhouette, but only two boxes, one for the head, one (a vertical rectangle) to represent the heart and spinal column. Shots into those two zones with pistol or rifle will either shut the badguy down (CNS shot up top), put holes in the heart, or break his spine and spinal cord, resulting in a badguy who can't stand, and may not be able to shoot back.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:02:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By texastactical:
www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/images/body/factfiles/organs_middle.jpg

As you can see the vital organs; heart and lungs, are in the upper chest and the brain is in the head

Now compare that to the old target:
www.stayingalive.info/images/tx-pt.gif

and compare it to the new target:
tinypic.com/k3p3eh.gif

It is plain to me which represents the vital zones more accurately.

I'm not saying the old dpt target is perfect but it definetely beats the new one.



Excellent graphics. I wish you could get those side by side for scroll free viewing.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:08:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:56:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:05:41 PM EDT
You're welcome!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:55:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texastactical:

Great job Schulze thanks!!


Originally Posted By Schulze:
tinypic.com/k9thmc.jpg





Agreed, thank you very much. That helps a lot!
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