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Posted: 12/29/2005 9:21:59 PM EDT
My understanding that it is legal to sell a rife to another person in TX and there are no paperwork requirements.

Is this correct?

Thanks,
tug
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:36:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tugboat:
My understanding that it is legal to sell a rife to another person in TX and there are no paperwork requirements.

Is this correct?

Thanks,
tug



Private sales are legal in Texas, no paper work is required as far as I know, however, I usually record the make, model and serial number of the firearm as well as when and where I sold it and keep it for my personal records as kind of cya thing.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:56:40 PM EDT
I agree. That is a good idea.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:14:23 AM EDT
i make a bill of sale just in case but i rarely sell anything.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:13:36 AM EDT
No paperwork is needed, but I always write up a bill of sale and I also get the DL # of the buyer for
my records.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:39:43 AM EDT
Never give out your address. Or take an address from anyone. Never give your DL#.
Do all sales cash only. Shake the man’s hand and walk away.

Beware of anyone who tells you different.
There is no need to subject yourself to the security risk of telling someone your address or DL. With that info they can steal your identity. They can also track you down and rob you or burglarize your house.

If there is ever a problem with the gun and the cops ask you questions tell them you sold it at a gun show. No you don’t remember the date, place or what the “person” looked like. Hell you don’t remember owning that gun.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:53:34 PM EDT
I STRONGLY recommend exchanging information between buyer and seller for the following reason: The gun may be stolen, or otherwise linked to a crime.

Here is a common scenario for you: You are pulled over for any lawful reason and the officer, for whatever reason, decides to check the serial number of the weapon hou have in NCIC. Of the weapon is reported stolen, you will probably have some 'splainin' to do. Personally, I would prefer to be able to tell the DA or the investigating officer that I purchased the weapon on (insert date) from (insert buyer) for whatever sum. If the want is for any date prior to yhe purchase date, you will have a much easier (and cheaper) time getting off the hook. The reverse can also apply if you sold the gun to someone and it is later used in a crime. If you purchased it from a dealer, there will be a 4473 on file. The National Tracing Center (ATF) in West Virginia will try and track down the last known papered owner of the gun. If you are that person, it would be REALLY HELPFUL in your situation to have the buyer's information available when they come a knockin'.

I investigate identity theft as part of my job, and I do understand this concern. If you are getting bad vibes about a transaction, RUN - DON'T WALK away from it.

With anything that can come back and bite you in the ass - C. Y. A.!!!

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:16:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
Never give out your address. Or take an address from anyone. Never give your DL#.
Do all sales cash only. Shake the man’s hand and walk away.



+1 Absolutely.


Originally Posted By hk940:

Beware of anyone who tells you different.



There is just no need to give a complete stranger your ID, downright stupid. The law does not require it, and there is not even anecdotal stories of people getting screwed over. It is one giant theoretical argument without merit. If they insist they need "protection" and a ID/DL, paper trail, then have them run the sale through an FFL. They still do not get your ID, but they have washed their hands of the gun, and have a receipt showing they sold it to a FFL.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:58:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By hk940:
Never give out your address. Or take an address from anyone. Never give your DL#.
Do all sales cash only. Shake the man’s hand and walk away.



+1 Absolutely.


Originally Posted By hk940:

Beware of anyone who tells you different.



There is just no need to give a complete stranger your ID, downright stupid. The law does not require it, and there is not even anecdotal stories of people getting screwed over. It is one giant theoretical argument without merit. If they insist they need "protection" and a ID/DL, paper trail, then have them run the sale through an FFL. They still do not get your ID, but they have washed their hands of the gun, and have a receipt showing they sold it to a FFL.




I agree with the going through a FFL route. Best avenue to protect all parties involved.

I stand by my beliefs that a smary buyer and seller will CYA when it comes to a paper trail. I base this on my history as a Texas Peace Officer (deputy Sheriff, deputy Constable, and municipal police officer), and my 12 years as a licensed Private Investigator. I sold a car a while back to someone who failed to register the title in the buyer's name; as a result, I was issued citations by mail and had to go to court to "prove" that I had disposed of the vehicle, and was not the individual named on the citation issued based on the registered owner's information. Why take chances?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:50:19 PM EDT
The fellow I am selling to is a new arfcom member - navajo31
He seems like a good guy, he gave references which was nice.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:57:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 10:58:18 PM EDT by Tonster]
I have bought a couple firearms from some folks on this board...I had no problem giving someone I am buying from a bit of added security.

Worried about identity theft...I used to work retail...You should really worry about the info(SS, TDL) you gave some idiot kid for your last cell phone contract.
I have too many stories about peoples info being "used" after buying a cell phone.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:52:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NFA_Investments:

I stand by my beliefs that a smary buyer and seller will CYA when it comes to a paper trail.



I fled a commie state where you needed permission to own a gun and had to keep detailed records of all transactions. So no way am I going to voluntarily go back to that system. As Dick Cheney says, "It is easy to take freedom for granted if you have never had it taken from you".

In my 20+ years of buying & selling guns anonymously, I have never had a problem. - the only problems I have had are paper trail guns - one guy harrassed me insisting I sell him the gun back because he sold it too low, another buyer saying the gun was in poor condition, not genuine HK parts, etc., I want my money back or I am going to sue you, even though it was face to face and he examined it on the spot before going forward with the deal.

So for me, I fear the nutcase with my ID more then I fear having to give LE an explanation about something I am 100% innocent of anyway.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:09:40 AM EDT
keep it simple, just dont sell
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:20:48 PM EDT
You could always have an FFL do the transfer for you, that way everyone is covered, no questions. If you are near the Houston area, I'll do it for you for nothing.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:25:41 AM EDT
and keep an eye out for the black helo flying overhead......

I've been buying/selling and trading guns for a long time(as an individual) in Texas.

Paranoia will destroy ya!


I have broken no laws. Texas does not require the registration of firearms.

Joe
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:53:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
Never give out your address. Or take an address from anyone. Never give your DL#.
Do all sales cash only. Shake the man’s hand and walk away.

Beware of anyone who tells you different.
There is no need to subject yourself to the security risk of telling someone your address or DL. With that info they can steal your identity. They can also track you down and rob you or burglarize your house.

If there is ever a problem with the gun and the cops ask you questions tell them you sold it at a gun show. No you don’t remember the date, place or what the “person” looked like. Hell you don’t remember owning that gun.



Thank you and AMEN brutha.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:23:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By hk940:
Never give out your address. Or take an address from anyone. Never give your DL#.
Do all sales cash only. Shake the man’s hand and walk away.



+1 Absolutely.


Originally Posted By hk940:

Beware of anyone who tells you different.



There is just no need to give a complete stranger your ID, downright stupid. The law does not require it, and there is not even anecdotal stories of people getting screwed over. It is one giant theoretical argument without merit. If they insist they need "protection" and a ID/DL, paper trail, then have them run the sale through an FFL. They still do not get your ID, but they have washed their hands of the gun, and have a receipt showing they sold it to a FFL.



+2
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:03:34 PM EDT
i agree with Keith. unless you want BATF red flaging you because you cant prove where a weapon came from and it turns up stolen. simply ask for ID and get a name and DOB if they say no then you dont want that gun anyway.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:48:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:49:21 PM EDT by NFA_Investments]

So for me, I fear the nutcase with my ID more then I fear having to give LE an explanation about something I am 100% innocent of anyway.


While I do understand your point, I don't think I want to risk my freedom and / or the financial cost of a trial because I don't trust the government. Honestly, I trust the government more than some unlicensed guy walking around a gun show whom I know absolutely nothing about and is conducting a firearm transaction with me based on some sort of honor system.

As for "I don't remember owning that gun anyway," be DAMN careful with comments like that. Especially if they are made to Federal Agents. Just ask "Martha" about lying to federal agents... If you told even one person that the gun was yours, or ANYONE or anything out there points back to you, it can be the BOHICA hat for you!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:06:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:18:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NFA_Investments:

So for me, I fear the nutcase with my ID more then I fear having to give LE an explanation about something I am 100% innocent of anyway.


While I do understand your point, I don't think I want to risk my freedom and / or the financial cost of a trial because I don't trust the government. Honestly, I trust the government more than some unlicensed guy walking around a gun show whom I know absolutely nothing about and is conducting a firearm transaction with me based on some sort of honor system.



How in the world do you go to trial for not keeping a record of who you sold a gun to? Have you ever had a gun traced? I bought 3 MAC10s in 1982 just as the Open-Bolt ban was going into effect. Xferred up to my FFL. Kept one, let 2 friends buy the others. One sold his, kept no records. 4 years later BATF calls dealer, seems gun was converted to FA and used in drive-by/murder. ATF then calls guy, he tells ATF he doesn't know who he sold it to (truth). End of story. Not sure where anybody gets the idea you can get in trouble for not having records, as long as FED/State law do not require it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:25:58 AM EDT
They only need CASH. - In GOD we trust...Although I usually write up a bill of sale. Date, Name, Price and Serial #.

But if you have concerns -Why not make them write you a personal check?
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