Quoted: Oooh.  I can hear it now. "Maaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrk.   Maaaaaaaaaarrrrrk."

Does she get extra points for NOT losing her grip and chunking it down range ?

Maybe I don't quite 'get it' about the problem here.

There is a woman 'reserving' a range for kids to shoot.  Either she or the kids, do not feel comfortable around loud guns.  I assume they must be shooting .22LR?

What is the 'problem' with letting her shoot for a couple of hours every 3rd Saturday without having 'AR15.com's version of Range Safety' shoved down her throat?

Hell, I've seen plenty of you guys shoot unsafely, and nobody got bent about it.  No earplugs, no chamber flags, no safety glasses.  And... on ranges that were managed, I heard plenty of guys bitch about those same rules that are being 'enforced' at Tom Bean's place on some 4H kids.

What's the problem with just backing away from the issue and allowing some kids to play with some .22LRs for a few hours each Saturday?

Somebody get their ox gored or something?

Geezus.

Give the kids a break at least.  They have been shooting guns, having a good time, and now it seems people are pissing down their necks and telling them it is just raining.

They are kids, being introduced to a gun hobby, and now they have this bunch of Know-it-alls telling them how they should enjoy the sport.

Maybe some of you should go spend your time looking for skateboard kids and enforcing helmet, kneepads and elbow protection rules.  

Do you *really* think you are going to change this woman's opinion of Gun Owners through your antics?  

So she does not like black rifles.  Big deal.  

Go sit at the range, display your weapons, be polite.  Ranting about what time a sign was displayed just seems petty to me.

I think that most of you should read a book about winning friends and influencing people.

TRG

Quoted: Maybe I don't quite 'get it' about the problem here. There is a woman 'reserving' a range for kids to shoot.  Either she or the kids, do not feel comfortable around loud guns.  I assume they must be shooting .22LR? No problem in her reserving the range. SHe has been told by the owner that is fine as long as she gives 24 hr notice, However showing up without notice and wanting people already on the range run off so she can shoot didnt fly with the range owner (Ralph) What is the 'problem' with letting her shoot for a couple of hours every 3rd Saturday without having 'AR15.com's version of Range Safety' shoved down her throat? no problem in allowing her kids time to shoot, we even offered to help and to allow them to try out our toys. They also shoot shotgun and other firearms and are looking for instructors for the kids in this and other avenues of the sport. as far as range safety . when she calls a "commence fire" when there are people down range changing targets and doesnt have the kids wearing eye and ear protection even if it IS required by 4H guidelines, as a so called instructor with 30 yrs experience ( or so she says) that is unacceptable Hell, I've seen plenty of you guys shoot unsafely, and nobody got bent about it.  No earplugs, no chamber flags, no safety glasses.  And... on ranges that were managed, I heard plenty of guys bitch about those same rules that are being 'enforced' at Tom Bean's place on some 4H kids. What's the problem with just backing away from the issue and allowing some kids to play with some .22LRs for a few hours each Saturday? she could have the range for the whole day if she wanted to, but when she drags the owner of the range out of his home, demands that paying customers that were already on the range be removed.  Making up signs falsifying statments from "the management", violoating 4H guidelines of program instruction and safety and complaining that a suppressed 9mm is "too loud for the kids" but not requiring them to wear ear protection (as required by 4H guidelines) , making public statements that black rifles were unnecessary and the kids didnt need to be exposed to them. Not following protocol requested by the range owner of prior notification. Taking advantage of the owners generosity to have them access to the range from 9:30 to 11:30 with notice and then taking over the range from 8am to 12 noon without notice, Instead of confronting other participants at the range and asking politely to refrain from shooting until her kids were through ( which we would have NO problem with) instead she demands we leave and confronts those on the range in an aggressive manner Somebody get their ox gored or something? yeah, she pissed off the owner of the range ! Geezus. Give the kids a break at least.  They have been shooting guns, having a good time, and now it seems people are pissing down their necks and telling them it is just raining. no one told her it was raining, but damn  if shes going to talk about a drought and no water available while shes drinking a gallon of iced tea They are kids, being introduced to a gun hobby, and now they have this bunch of Know-it-alls telling them how they should enjoy the sport. Maybe some of you should go spend your time looking for skateboard kids and enforcing helmet, kneepads and elbow protection rules.   Do you *really* think you are going to change this woman's opinion of Gun Owners through your antics?   she doesnt have a problem with gun owners just doesnt think that owning a "black" rifle is acceptable, kinda like a democrat thinking that unless you vote dem your voice as a republican should be removed from the equation So she does not like black rifles.  Big deal.   Go sit at the range, display your weapons, be polite.  Ranting about what time a sign was displayed just seems petty to me. we werent the ones making the sign an issue, she was. and posting the sign made from a 2ft piece of cardboard  placed in an obscure spot, leaning against a tree behind a corner of a building where noone can see it, doesnt fall in the request made by the owner of the range I think that most of you should read a book about winning friends and influencing people. TRG

Quoted: Quoted: Maybe I don't quite 'get it' about the problem here. There is a woman 'reserving' a range for kids to shoot.  Either she or the kids, do not feel comfortable around loud guns.  I assume they must be shooting .22LR? No problem in her reserving the range. SHe has been told by the owner that is fine as long as she gives 24 hr notice, However showing up without notice and wanting people already on the range run off so she can shoot didnt fly with the range owner (Ralph) Then this sounds like something Ralph should be addressing, not Arfcommers What is the 'problem' with letting her shoot for a couple of hours every 3rd Saturday without having 'AR15.com's version of Range Safety' shoved down her throat? no problem in allowing her kids time to shoot, we even offered to help and to allow them to try out our toys. They also shoot shotgun and other firearms and are looking for instructors for the kids in this and other avenues of the sport. as far as range safety . when she calls a "commence fire" when there are people down range changing targets and doesnt have the kids wearing eye and ear protection even if it IS required by 4H guidelines, as a so called instructor with 30 yrs experience ( or so she says) that is unacceptable Again, this sounds like something Ralph should be addressing, not Arfcommers Hell, I've seen plenty of you guys shoot unsafely, and nobody got bent about it.  No earplugs, no chamber flags, no safety glasses.  And... on ranges that were managed, I heard plenty of guys bitch about those same rules that are being 'enforced' at Tom Bean's place on some 4H kids. What's the problem with just backing away from the issue and allowing some kids to play with some .22LRs for a few hours each Saturday? she could have the range for the whole day if she wanted to, but when she drags the owner of the range out of his home, demands that paying customers that were already on the range be removed.  Making up signs falsifying statments from "the management", violoating 4H guidelines of program instruction and safety and complaining that a suppressed 9mm is "too loud for the kids" but not requiring them to wear ear protection (as required by 4H guidelines) , making public statements that black rifles were unnecessary and the kids didnt need to be exposed to them. Not following protocol requested by the range owner of prior notification. Taking advantage of the owners generosity to have them access to the range from 9:30 to 11:30 with notice and then taking over the range from 8am to 12 noon without notice, Instead of confronting other participants at the range and asking politely to refrain from shooting until her kids were through ( which we would have NO problem with) instead she demands we leave and confronts those on the range in an aggressive manner <insert broken record response about Ralph> Somebody get their ox gored or something? yeah, she pissed off the owner of the range ! see above Geezus. Give the kids a break at least.  They have been shooting guns, having a good time, and now it seems people are pissing down their necks and telling them it is just raining. no one told her it was raining, but damn  if shes going to talk about a drought and no water available while shes drinking a gallon of iced tea They are kids, being introduced to a gun hobby, and now they have this bunch of Know-it-alls telling them how they should enjoy the sport. Maybe some of you should go spend your time looking for skateboard kids and enforcing helmet, kneepads and elbow protection rules.   Do you *really* think you are going to change this woman's opinion of Gun Owners through your antics?   she doesnt have a problem with gun owners just doesnt think that owning a "black" rifle is acceptable, kinda like a democrat thinking that unless you vote dem your voice as a republican should be removed from the equation Why do you care about her preferences for BRs?  You think your actions are going to change her mind? So she does not like black rifles.  Big deal.   Go sit at the range, display your weapons, be polite.  Ranting about what time a sign was displayed just seems petty to me. we werent the ones making the sign an issue, she was. and posting the sign made from a 2ft piece of cardboard  placed in an obscure spot, leaning against a tree behind a corner of a building where noone can see it, doesnt fall in the request made by the owner of the range Am not! Is too! Am not! Is too! I think that most of you should read a book about winning friends and influencing people. TRG

Seriously.

The whole thing seems childish and petty to me.

You don't like her, she does not like you, and each of you is taking this a little too far.  

Since when was it anyone's (from this gun board) place to enforce 4H rules? Are you her boss? Are you in charge of her?  

Are you going be *really mean* and rat her out to the 4H?

You're just fucking up some 4H kids' day at the range, IMHO

If the Owner has a problem with range safety, bring it to his attention.  If he fails to take action, then find someplace else to shoot.


]

TRG

First of all all this HAS been addressed with Ralph, He has told me that he is tired of her crap and to do what I needed to do if she doesnt comply with the range directives ( have ya got the idea yet that He has given me the authority to address this issue and to bring it to a amicable solution or to deal with her in his place ? ) Basicly Iv known Ralph since BEFORE he built the range and have been part of the range since inseption.

Seriously.

The whole thing seems childish and petty to me.

You don't like her, she does not like you, and each of you is taking this a little too far.  

actually Ive met her once, we exchanged plesentries and all was fine ( Hi, how are you today, Yes mamm, yes sir  etc), UNITL I LEFT then she tore into the others on the range in my absence

Since when was it anyone's (from this gun board) place to enforce 4H rules? Are you her boss? Are you in charge of her?  

never said we were

Are you going be *really mean* and rat her out to the 4H?

never said we would

You're just fucking up some 4H kids' day at the range, IMHO.

unlike their day would get fucked up if one of the kids lost an eye due to no protection, or someone got shot due to her calling a commence fire while people were down range

If the Owner has a problem with range safety, bring it to his attention.  If he fails to take action, then find someplace else to shoot.

see above

sorry, but Ive been shooting at this range for close to 15 yrs, she has been here two weeks. 9read that  "twice" and you want ME to leave ?  I doubt it

I get your point but...

If you (CnL) are acting on Ralph's behalf, is there a range rule that requires eye and hearing protection?

Is there range requirement for an RO?

Are there range rules posted anywhere?  I've never been there, so clue me in.

If you are mad about her talking behind your back?  Come on...happens all the time.  Get over it.


If Ralph owns the place, and you are acting on his behalf, then this could be over in a few short conversations.  Without the need for finger pointing, jumping around about signs, and quibbling over the noise level of a suppressed 9mm (which I own as well, and suppersonic is almost indistinguishable to an untrained ear from unsuppressed).

If she is in violation of a posted range rule, address it.  

"Ma'am, I am acting on the Owner's behalf

Planning to 'camp the range', so to speak, to make a point  about 24 hr notification is petty and childish.

Planning to bring even more rifles each time she is there with the 4H is even more juvenille, IMHO.

Be polite.
Be direct.
Be professional.
Enforce the rules as posted.

TRG

Quoted: I get your point but... If you (CnL) are acting on Ralph's behalf, is there a range rule that requires eye and hearing protection? Is there range requirement for an RO? not by our guidelines but there is by  4H guide lines Are there range rules posted anywhere?  I've never been there, so clue me in. These have in the past and will be again, If you are mad about her talking behind your back?  Come on...happens all the time.  Get over it. not talking behind my back  but attacking others on the range4 without anyone there to intercede and or defend their position. Why did she wait til I Left to address any issues she might have ? ??? If Ralph owns the place, and you are acting on his behalf, then this could be over in a few short conversations.  Without the need for finger pointing, jumping around about signs, and quibbling over the noise level of a suppressed 9mm (which I own as well, and suppersonic is almost indistinguishable to an untrained ear from unsuppressed). this is my intention, to do so quietly and respectfully. I emphised to the others on the range this weekend to do just that. Not to confront her and to be respectfull and to let cooler heads prevail. She ws the one that lost it. Our guys stayed polite and backed off til it could be addressed by myself or Ralph If she is in violation of a posted range rule, address it.   I/we will "Ma'am, I am acting on the Owner's behalf Agreed, that is the plan Planning to 'camp the range', so to speak, to make a point  about 24 hr notification is petty and childish. I/we werent going to make this an issue until she did. I personally talked to ralph Friday night and as of 10pm NO NOTICE WAS POSTED ( violation of the agreement between him and her to give 24 hr notice minimum) then turn around and state she posted it "AROUND MIDNIGHT" in a spot that no one could see unless you put a flashing red light on it Planning to bring even more rifles each time she is there with the 4H is even more juvenille, IMHO. wasnt planning on bringing "more" actually I have a surprise for her when we bring not only several target .22s along with certified instructors, eye protection, ear protection, ( a case has already been given to them btw) R.O.s coaches, etcand show these kids the PROPER way to enjoy the sport Be polite. Be direct. Be professional. Enforce the rules as posted. thats the plan, but can SHE handle it ............ Not from what Ive seen   . . . .kill em with kindness and let them make an azz of themselves ........ TRG

Quoted: Quoted: I get your point but... If you (CnL) are acting on Ralph's behalf, is there a range rule that requires eye and hearing protection? Is there range requirement for an RO? not by our guidelines but there is by  4H guide lines Are there range rules posted anywhere?  I've never been there, so clue me in. These have in the past and will be again, If you are mad about her talking behind your back?  Come on...happens all the time.  Get over it. not talking behind my back  but attacking others on the range4 without anyone there to intercede and or defend their position. Why did she wait til I Left to address any issues she might have ? ??? If Ralph owns the place, and you are acting on his behalf, then this could be over in a few short conversations.  Without the need for finger pointing, jumping around about signs, and quibbling over the noise level of a suppressed 9mm (which I own as well, and suppersonic is almost indistinguishable to an untrained ear from unsuppressed). this is my intention, to do so quietly and respectfully. I emphised to the others on the range this weekend to do just that. Not to confront her and to be respectfull and to let cooler heads prevail. She ws the one that lost it. Our guys stayed polite and backed off til it could be addressed by myself or Ralph If she is in violation of a posted range rule, address it.   I/we will "Ma'am, I am acting on the Owner's behalf Agreed, that is the plan Planning to 'camp the range', so to speak, to make a point  about 24 hr notification is petty and childish. I/we werent going to make this an issue until she did. I personally talked to ralph Friday night and as of 10pm NO NOTICE WAS POSTED ( violation of the agreement between him and her to give 24 hr notice minimum) then turn around and state she posted it "AROUND MIDNIGHT" in a spot that no one could see unless you put a flashing red light on it Planning to bring even more rifles each time she is there with the 4H is even more juvenille, IMHO. wasnt planning on bringing "more" actually I have a surprise for her when we bring not only several target .22s along with certified instructors, eye protection, ear protection, ( a case has already been given to them btw) R.O.s coaches, etcand show these kids the PROPER way to enjoy the sport Be polite. Be direct. Be professional. Enforce the rules as posted. thats the plan, but can SHE handle it ............ Not from what Ive seen   . . . .kill em with kindness and let them make an azz of themselves ........ TRG

Well, it sounds like the plans have changed from the first post of this thread.

Hope it works out for you.

TRG