Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match Update: Waco, TX 9-30-05 to 10-2-05 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match Update: Waco, TX 9-30-05 to 10-2-05 (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 9/26/2005 4:48:34 PM EDT

[#1]

I just got in from working over in the New Orleans area. I'll be there this weekend.... see you guys there.

I guess I should probably call Tiger Valley or something and send them some money since I don't remember if I registered for the event or not.

Jeremy

Posted: 9/29/2005 7:04:05 PM EDT

[#2]

We just spent the day with the guys from Cav at Tiger Valley while they were getting ready for this weekend's match. Very nice setup and they have room for any shooters that want to show up and shoot. TJ has a great facility and it should be a good time for everyone...

They've spent alot of time of thinking out and preparing the stages and it shows. We shot the downed helicopter stage and its a blast.

Shawn getting ready to fetch the key for his 'breakout'

Free at last

The shoothouse - Cav is providing a breaching shotgun for the door and then enter to enagage the targets for the night shoot.

Posted: 10/2/2005 5:59:42 PM EDT

[#3]

I'm posting videos here...
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=395564&page=1

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:29:04 PM EDT

[#4]

Looks like they are going to lose a lot of shooters at future 3-gun matches because they imposed some fees after the match (for 'damaging' a flight suit on the dummy, and for a damaged target stand). Doesn't seem like the best decision:

www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28255&st=0

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:06:28 PM EDT

[#5]

Tag, for Russell's comments...if this was the match where the $100 fine was imposed.

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:23:07 PM EDT

[#6]

Since the BE thread was locked, here is what I was about to post there:

-------------------------

ALSO I THINK SOME ONE HAD TO PAY FOR A CLAYBIRD STAND AND THAT WAS ONLY $30.00 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????

[ link to LARGER image ]

"Damaging a clay holder by firing a slug at it is a 60 second penalty, and the shooter must pay for the target holder."

It's fair game to impose atypical conditions by giving advance notice prior to ... an unannounced stop at a law office ...

Firstly, this wasn't a USPSA match. Secondly, the rules posted on the web say the following (w.r.t clay holder):

3.5 If a competitor’s ammunition punctures a steel target, they will pay for the replacement cost of that target.

Since everybody else can mouth off--

Speaking of sportmanship, dog-piling Cav Arms without hearing their side of the story is reprehensible. Why aren't they posting? They are still working their asses off tearing down the match, cleaning up the range, and driving 1200 miles home.

If you did NOT shoot the match, and did NOT receive a shooter's packet, and did NOT attend the shooters' briefing, you need to STFU because you did not receive the shooters' instructions and warnings. You basically have no idea WTF you are talking about.

For the record, I think it's real hokey to charge for minor damage to a prop. After all, we were dragging/carrying the dummy and throwing him into the "chopper." But the RO is likely the only one who SAW the event occur and we haven't heard from him yet.

-z

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:28:13 PM EDT

[#7]

Glad I didn't go.

I wouldn't want my high quality ammo to put holes in substandard pot metal targets.

How would they tell whoes ammo put holes in the steel targets?

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:42:24 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
How would they tell whoes ammo put holes in the steel targets?

It would be obvious when you shot a 10 yard steel plate with your rifle.

That is moot anyway because nobody shot any shotgun/pistol plates with their rifles.

Shooters were specifically instructed to not shoot the clay holders with slugs, not shoot the pistol/shotgun plates with slugs or rifles, and to not shoot the dummy.

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:47:35 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Tag, for Russell's comments...if this was the match where the $100 fine was imposed.

Tagging as well.
Hard to believe if it was them.

Posted: 10/4/2005 4:07:56 AM EDT

[#10]

~~www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28274~~

Edit: guess they removed that post.

Posted: 10/4/2005 5:45:05 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28274

Link no worky?

Posted: 10/4/2005 5:49:38 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Since the BE thread was locked, here is what I was about to post there:

Why did they lock the Brian Enos thread? Are they not open to fair and open discussion about this topic?

Quoted:
If you did NOT shoot the match, and did NOT receive a shooter's packet, and did NOT attend the shooters' briefing, you need to STFU because you did not receive the shooters' instructions and warnings. You basically have no idea WTF you are talking about.

-z

Also, I was just posting about what I read on the Brian Enos thread, and I was not taking sides one way or other. Even the original poster himself stated he would not go back to that match:
{cut and pasted from the other thread, and if I recall correctly, the original thread was much longer too and had and some replies}

Went to a 3-gun match this weekend with a few friend's & shot what I thought was a fairley good match untill I was presented with a bill for damaging a prop. It went like this. You shot your ar from a platform, ran down range about 40 yds, picked up a dummy, ran back, and tossed it onto the platform. At this time our squad was told to use the dummy as a rest for the AR to shoot off of. Most everyone did so , as did I. Except my muzzle break gases tore a small hole in the pant's leg I did'nt know off. After the match was over I was told I owed a $100.00 for the pant's & had to pay. I've never seen anyone with any sense put a $100.00 pair of pants on anythine, much less a prop that they know is going to get shot over. To keep a heated agurment down, I paid the money but will never go to this match again as will the guy's with me. Have been shooting 3-gun for 20 yr.'s & have never seen ANYONE have to pay for a prop. that was hurt by accident. I don't know if the other shooter's were aware of it or not but felt inclined to tell everyone how I felt. The way my luck goes , I probley paid retail for the pant's.

Posted: 10/4/2005 6:59:17 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Why did they lock the Brian Enos thread? Are they not open to fair and open discussion about this topic?

BE is historically not open to divisive discussion. In any case, the kind of personal attacks present in that thread shouldn't be allowed by moderators anywhere.

My response here was the reply I was about to post there, but couldn't because the thread was locked. It was not directed at people here per se, but to address the dogpiling that was going on on BE.

Posted: 10/4/2005 7:15:36 AM EDT

[#14]

I think we should hear what Cav Arms has to say before coming to any conclusions. I personnaly use Nomex flight suits for shooting events, and would be pretty upset if it had a hole it. They go for anywhere around 50-300 depending on the source new/used.

Posted: 10/4/2005 8:23:41 AM EDT

[#15]

This is what I posted in another thread on the same subject...

Wow, I’m glad to see some of you have already made up your minds about what happened. Of the 45 people who shot that stage, only one person blew holes in the brand new set of CVC coveralls. Everyone at the match was told that if you shoot a prop you will be charged for it. Everyone at the match was told specifically that if they use the dummy for a rest and shoot it or blow holes in it with their comps, that they would have to pay for it. No one was charged for any clay holders (we whacked it with a hammer and it was fine, if Mell was charged, I want to know by who so I can get his money back for him).

I didn’t think it was unreasonable to ask people to control their muzzles at this match and being that everyone except on man was able to do so, I don’t think I made a bad call. The only person who did this was the one man at the match who has the most experience shooting and should know better. When I asked him about damaging the dummy, he didn’t deny it, when I presented him with the damaged coveralls (as in they are his now) and a bill, he happily paid it. He didn’t say anything about it seeming steep or offer to instead replace the coveralls with a new set (which would have been fine) or maybe trade some gunsmithing for the coveralls…nothing, just his patented smile and $100 in cash. At the MGM match, you hole a steel target, you have to buy it (I know, I’ve seen it happen) and at the Mystery Mt. match (the largest 3-gun match in the world) if you shoot a prop, you get a stage DQ and depending on the damage, you may also have to pay for it.

Last year people complained that the props seemed cheap, so I used a full set of real issue CVC (combat vehicle Crewman’s) gear fore the dummy. The Kevlar vest, CVC helmet, boots, goggles and gloves were mine. The Coveralls were barrowed from a friend who is still in the military and I told him I would replace them if they were damaged (these are very hard to tear and a washing would have made them like new again). I looked online and the only places I could find that sold them new (and could give me a receipt and I will NOT use Ebay as they are anti-gun) they run from $65.00 to $150.00 for a new set (depending on size, I need Med/Reg).

I am so disgusted by this bullshit. My guys and me killed ourselves to make this match happen and if anyone thinks we made money off of this, they are dead wrong. I also like how this hits the net while we are still on the road trying to get home after tearing the range down and getting it cleaned up for the shoot you Texas folks are doing there this weekend (I’m at a truck stop on my lap-top, I got a cell call to let me know I was being dog-piled on-line). Please feel free to contact me directly to tell me I’m a cheap-ass and a dick if you would like.

Shawn M. Nealon
CEO Cavalry Arms Corp
723 W. Commerce Suite A
Gilbert, Arizona 85233
(480) 833-9685
[email protected]

Well other then that, I think it was a good match and people seemed to enjoy it. It was good see some of you Texas folks again and we hope to do it again next year.

Posted: 10/4/2005 8:33:44 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
This is what I posted in another thread on the same subject...

Wow, I’m glad to see some of you have already made up your minds about what happened. Of the 45 people who shot that stage, only one person blew holes in the brand new set of CVC coveralls. Everyone at the match was told that if you shoot a prop you will be charged for it. Everyone at the match was told specifically that if they use the dummy for a rest and shoot it or blow holes in it with their comps, that they would have to pay for it. No one was charged for any clay holders (we whacked it with a hammer and it was fine, if Mell was charged, I want to know by who so I can get his money back for him).

I didn’t think it was unreasonable to ask people to control their muzzles at this match and being that everyone except on man was able to do so, I don’t think I made a bad call. The only person who did this was the one man at the match who has the most experience shooting and should know better. When I asked him about damaging the dummy, he didn’t deny it, when I presented him with the damaged coveralls (as in they are his now) and a bill, he happily paid it. He didn’t say anything about it seeming steep or offer to instead replace the coveralls with a new set (which would have been fine) or maybe trade some gunsmithing for the coveralls…nothing, just his patented smile and $100 in cash. At the MGM match, you hole a steel target, you have to buy it (I know, I’ve seen it happen) and at the Mystery Mt. match (the largest 3-gun match in the world) if you shoot a prop, you get a stage DQ and depending on the damage, you may also have to pay for it.

Last year people complained that the props seemed cheap, so I used a full set of real issue CVC (combat vehicle Crewman’s) gear fore the dummy. The Kevlar vest, CVC helmet, boots, goggles and gloves were mine. The Coveralls were barrowed from a friend who is still in the military and I told him I would replace them if they were damaged (these are very hard to tear and a washing would have made them like new again). I looked online and the only places I could find that sold them new (and could give me a receipt and I will NOT use Ebay as they are anti-gun) they run from $65.00 to $150.00 for a new set (depending on size, I need Med/Reg).

I am so disgusted by this bullshit. My guys and me killed ourselves to make this match happen and if anyone thinks we made money off of this, they are dead wrong. I also like how this hits the net while we are still on the road trying to get home after tearing the range down and getting it cleaned up for the shoot you Texas folks are doing there this weekend (I’m at a truck stop on my lap-top, I got a cell call to let me know I was being dog-piled on-line). Please feel free to contact me directly to tell me I’m a cheap-ass and a dick if you would like.

Shawn M. Nealon
CEO Cavalry Arms Corp
723 W. Commerce Suite A
Gilbert, Arizona 85233
(480) 833-9685
[email protected]

Well other then that, I think it was a good match and people seemed to enjoy it. It was good see some of you Texas folks again and we hope to do it again next year.

Well, I was in Louisiana helping our Official Texas Hometown Refugee, LordTrader, move back to Texas. Would have driven down to Waco for a beer, but it was a *little* out of the way for me...

TRG

Posted: 10/4/2005 8:39:15 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Well, I was in Louisiana helping our Official Texas Hometown Refugee, LordTrader, move back to Texas. Would have driven down to Waco for a beer, but it was a *little* out of the way for me...

TRG

Not out of the way at all. Just take a left in Corsicana and take either 84 or 31 and you're right there.

mm

Posted: 10/4/2005 10:06:54 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Since the BE thread was locked, here is what I was about to post there:

Why did they lock the Brian Enos thread? Are they not open to fair and open discussion about this topic?

Quoted:
If you did NOT shoot the match, and did NOT receive a shooter's packet, and did NOT attend the shooters' briefing, you need to STFU because you did not receive the shooters' instructions and warnings. You basically have no idea WTF you are talking about.

-z

Also, I was just posting about what I read on the Brian Enos thread, and I was not taking sides one way or other. Even the original poster himself stated he would not go back to that match:
{cut and pasted from the other thread, and if I recall correctly, the original thread was much longer too and had and some replies}

Went to a 3-gun match this weekend with a few friend's & shot what I thought was a fairley good match untill I was presented with a bill for damaging a prop. It went like this. You shot your ar from a platform, ran down range about 40 yds, picked up a dummy, ran back, and tossed it onto the platform. At this time our squad was told to use the dummy as a rest for the AR to shoot off of. Most everyone did so , as did I. Except my muzzle break gases tore a small hole in the pant's leg I did'nt know off. After the match was over I was told I owed a $100.00 for the pant's & had to pay. I've never seen anyone with any sense put a $100.00 pair of pants on anythine, much less a prop that they know is going to get shot over. To keep a heated agurment down, I paid the money but will never go to this match again as will the guy's with me. Have been shooting 3-gun for 20 yr.'s & have never seen ANYONE have to pay for a prop. that was hurt by accident. I don't know if the other shooter's were aware of it or not but felt inclined to tell everyone how I felt. The way my luck goes , I probley paid retail for the pant's.

You know, I'd like to see the original poster, Benny, who's bitching about the $100 in damages, put on a better match. That match ROCKED!!! It was either pay up or get a match DQ and loose his FIRST PLACE OVERALL!! What a shmuck!! Besides that, I'd encourage anyone else to go next year......it was a blast!!

Posted: 10/4/2005 10:16:21 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since the BE thread was locked, here is what I was about to post there:

Why did they lock the Brian Enos thread? Are they not open to fair and open discussion about this topic?

Quoted:
If you did NOT shoot the match, and did NOT receive a shooter's packet, and did NOT attend the shooters' briefing, you need to STFU because you did not receive the shooters' instructions and warnings. You basically have no idea WTF you are talking about.

-z

Also, I was just posting about what I read on the Brian Enos thread, and I was not taking sides one way or other. Even the original poster himself stated he would not go back to that match:
{cut and pasted from the other thread, and if I recall correctly, the original thread was much longer too and had and some replies}

Went to a 3-gun match this weekend with a few friend's & shot what I thought was a fairley good match untill I was presented with a bill for damaging a prop. It went like this. You shot your ar from a platform, ran down range about 40 yds, picked up a dummy, ran back, and tossed it onto the platform. At this time our squad was told to use the dummy as a rest for the AR to shoot off of. Most everyone did so , as did I. Except my muzzle break gases tore a small hole in the pant's leg I did'nt know off. After the match was over I was told I owed a $100.00 for the pant's & had to pay. I've never seen anyone with any sense put a $100.00 pair of pants on anythine, much less a prop that they know is going to get shot over. To keep a heated agurment down, I paid the money but will never go to this match again as will the guy's with me. Have been shooting 3-gun for 20 yr.'s & have never seen ANYONE have to pay for a prop. that was hurt by accident. I don't know if the other shooter's were aware of it or not but felt inclined to tell everyone how I felt. The way my luck goes , I probley paid retail for the pant's.

You know, I'd like to see the original poster, Benny, who's bitching about the $100 in damages, put on a better match. That match ROCKED!!! It was either pay up or get a match DQ and loose his FIRST PLACE OVERALL!! What a shmuck!! Besides that, I'd encourage anyone else to go next year......it was a blast!!

No good deed goes unpunished, man... It sounds like CavArms learned its lesson.

TRG

Posted: 10/4/2005 5:51:15 PM EDT

[#20]

TRG,

I hope that the "Lesson Learned" for Cav Arms was not the "Screw This - I ain't Doing All That Freaking Driving, Work and Effort just to get Bitched At with No Thanks Again"!!

Sorry to hear that what everyone says was a GREAT match is overshadowed by controvesy over a prop that cost only a freaking C note - (Heck my younger brother blows that much at Rick's Caberet (strip club in Houston) in about 20 minutes (well about 15 minutes... more like 10 minutes...) and he dosent't even have any chance of taking home anything sweet as a prize!! -

Even though I had to work - (Yes - Work Sucks but I need the Bucks!!) and missed the shoot this year, I sure hope that the guys at CAV ARMS won't let the down side of this "Tempest in a teacup" keep them from coming back next year! I'm getting my set up tuned and WILL be present and Ready when the firing line goes hot next year!

CAV ARMS - THANKS for the Event and I look forward to next year!!

BIGGER_HAMMER

Posted: 10/6/2005 11:54:02 AM EDT

[#21]

Someone left a gun belt, holster, and mag pouches at the range...if you are missing your rig, please call me and we'll see if this one is yours 480-833-9685.

---Russell Phagan
Cavalry Arms Staff

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cavalry Arms 3 Gun Match Update: Waco, TX 9-30-05 to 10-2-05 (Page 2 of 2)

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