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Posted: 8/26/2003 7:01:47 PM EDT
Hey guys, while awaiting the processing of my CHL paperwork I came up with a question.

Any inside the waistband holsters that I've seen have a small tab of metal that fits over the outside of your belt.

If you have one of these holsters and have your shirt tucked around your weapon, but the little tab is still showing....is that considered concealed from a legal stanpoint ??

I've seen a couple with really small tabs that I figure I could clip my cellphone over to hide it if necessary.

This damn hot Texas weather really makes concealment a problem!

Thanks for any info or advice.

Ed
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 7:10:39 PM EDT
Hey man,

There is a simple measure you can use. If there is a complaint, there is a problem. Meaning, if someone can complain you are not concealed, you are not abiding by the concealed laws!

c
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 7:24:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Recruit_Killer:
Hey man,

There is a simple measure you can use. If there is a complaint, there is a problem. Meaning, if someone can complain you are not concealed, you are not abiding by the concealed laws!

c



Yeah, but I don't exactly plan on experimenting to see at what point someone complains. I figure if that ever happens you're probably in deep doodoo by then.

I guess I'm concerned about the definition of "someone". Probably 99% of the population would never notice a half inch metal tab on your belt, but anyone who knows guns would immediately know what it was. But then I figure that a 'gun person' probably wouldn't complain.


Link Posted: 8/26/2003 8:08:38 PM EDT
What do you want to conceal? If it's a large frame gun, then perhaps, if possible, start wearing your shirts untucked now, so family and friends get used to it.

Otherwise, look at other options of concealment.

The idea with concealment is that you don't look like you are carrying to the average person. Other CHL holders and LEOs may have a better eye to notice if you are printing (even slightly), so it will be hard, especially in this heat to conceal effectively.

But, like Recruit Killer said, if no one is complaining, then you should be ok.

-Zmeja
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 8:41:18 PM EDT
Texas Ed,
Tell you the truth, I wear a fanny pack. Looks gay as hell, but who cares, I would rather be under-estimated.

Also remember the law, has to be with intent to ...

take care bud,

c
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 4:57:14 AM EDT
the wording says concealed is not "discernable by normal observation". just a clip over the top of pants does not mean a gun to me, and i carry. i used galcoo's deep cover holster for my g26. tuck the shirt between holster and pants. but i'm so skinny it's obvious something is there. do like recruit killer said, get a fanny pack. may look gay as hell, and everyone may know you are carrying, but you are legal.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 4:58:16 AM EDT
i use shirt tuckers from time to time and have never been "caught. as you say most folks walk around in a fog and won't notice. most LE and CHL civies don't notice because they are looking for shop lifters or bad guys (if they are looking at all). to see a small black or brown tab on a belt of the same color from several feet away is difficult compound that by the hundreds of people you see every day.

give this a try. go to your local food court at lunch and sit and watch people for an hour or two. you will see several hundred people in a busy mall. try to guess who is packing.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 5:58:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2003 6:06:48 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
FWIW, my Hawaiian and Mexican wedding shirt collection has grown immensely since Texas passed it's CHL law.

While I cannot speak for others, I'd notice the tab, in-fact anyone frequenting the same restaurant, where I happen to find myself, that's carrying a concealed handgun is something I notice or at least attempt to.

I'm especially fond of strong side or right hip carriers because they are the easiest to spot. Although most folks won't notice, call me anal, but I prefer/attempt to identify any CHL practitioners with which I come in contact as a simple matter of course. It hones the senses to be a practiced observer, and gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to pay attention to the details.

As a one-time CHL instructor, I felt it was my responsibility to determine for myself, the aspect of CHL in all manners. So for several months I experimented with all manner of carry modes. From Renegade ankle holsters to Bianci and Galco leather rigs and shoulder holsters, I tried to carry different pistols in different modes. I learned a lot, but mainly learned "what worked for me". While teaching I attempted to answer those questions asked by students about particular modes and styles of CHL and on occasion explained why I use and carry in the mode I do.

From riding in the car/pick-up, or my particular favorite, "scoots", to those trips to the little boys room, how and where ya carry is important. Nuthin is more embarrassing than dropping your trousers only to have your pistola hit the floor, (not to mention the reaction from the dude in the next stall) or am I the only one who ever had to go while in carry mode. What works for me might not work for you, but I always attempted to alter my carry methods at first to be aware of associated advantages or disadvantages of that particular mode of carrying.

If a fanny pack works for ya swell, they are a definite step ahead in the "john" situation, IMO.

Your grips and the material your shirt is made of are definitely something one must consider if "strong-side/hip" carry is your choice as pistol is somewhat out of your peripheral view and printing can happen without ya knowing. So making sure that the polyester shirt don't stick to the sharply checkered 1911 grips is a priority.

There's way to many variables to type here and I suggest ya do your own testing to find out what works for ya.

For me, I'm happiest when the fact I'm carrying comes as a complete surprise to everyone around me, at anytime and anyplace, (except where prohibited).

Mike

PS - While last in Cooper's small book on "Principals of Self Defense", never underestimate the value of SURPRISE.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:18:57 AM EDT
Which holsters are you looking at? Most of the inside the waistband holsters I've seen with metal tabs it would be impossible to tuck your shirt in over the gun because the metal tab would have to poke out and it would look pretty obvious.

If you are looking at IWB holsters you can tuck a shirt over, there are a few good varieties that are nice and discreet; but you need a very slim gun (1911s work well) or else your belt bulges out awkwardly.

I've tried both the Galco Deep Cover that maggiethecat mentioned and I have a Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 that is tuckable.

The Galco has a small J-hook that sticks out from underneath the belt; but it is made so incredibly thick that the part that will give you away is the "Hey is that a TV?" bulge at your beltline.

Galco has since improved the design to make it thinner and the J-hook more discrete; but I haven't tried that one.

The Versa-Max 2 is a great rig. It comes with leather loops for normal IWB wear and Kydex clips for tuckable wear. The clips grip on to your pants and hold the rig very solidly. Under a 1.5" belt the clips disappear and I've been able to get away with as 1.25" belt in the same color as the clips (black).

I carry my Hi-Power like this on occasion and have never had a problem with being spotted - even by people who know I carry - although once you know what to look for you can spot it pretty easily; although I have a few buddies who are LEOs and know I carry and they have missed it several times, so maybe it only seems easy to me.

My favorite is just to wear an untucked shirt with the belt loops though (more comfortable and easier to remove). Hawaiian shirts are also pretty handy for concealed carry. You could pack a bazooka under some of them.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:29:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
FWIW, my Hawaiian and Mexican wedding shirt collection has grown immensely since Texas passed it's CHL law.



I'm especially fond of strong side or right hip carriers because they are the easiest to spot.



Your grips and the material your shirt is made of are definitely something one must consider if "strong-side/hip" carry is your choice as pistol is somewhat out of your peripheral view and printing can happen without ya knowing. So making sure that the polyester shirt don't stick to the sharply checkered 1911 grips is a priority.

There's way to many variables to type here and I suggest ya do your own testing to find out what works for ya.

For me, I'm happiest when the fact I'm carrying comes as a complete surprise to everyone around me, at anytime and anyplace, (except where prohibited).

Mike



What he said....

Experiment, experiment...oh, and set aside an area for holsters you no longer use.....

I ended up with a Keltec P-11 with a belt clip...hawaiian shirts or polo shirts untucked work fine...the only issue with holsterless in Houston is the sweat caused you to clean em more often..but that ain't a bad thing...right?

I think someone makes belt clips for just about any pistol...seen em advertised in Shotgun news.....

When I'm dressed up more formerly, I do use an Uncle Mike's ankle holster...Works for my keltec with the belt clip securing it nicely..though, getting to an ankle holster is not a fast thing.....oh, and watch it when you cross your legs...you might expose the weapon
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:51:07 AM EDT
Depending on the size and weight, most CC handguns can be carried in a clip holster and covered by not tucking in a shirt all the way. Just let a few inches of the shirt hang loosly over the waistline, just enough to cover the top view. There are so many gadgets with clips that most will go unnoticed.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:59:53 AM EDT
Looks like I'm going to need to expand my shirt collection. My main problem with buying clothes is that the shirts are too short. I'm 6'4" with 37" arms. If I get the XXL shirts I look like I'm wearing a tent.

Got to find a hawaian shirt dealer that sells talls......
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:43:55 AM EDT
Amen on that. My buddys that know I carry know when I am because my shirt is not tucked in. I'm still looking for an IWB for my Glock 30. I'm a big boy but that sucker is hard to hide because of the width. If you are in the Dallas area and make some of the gun shows check out the holsters Jim Burke makes. He makes a modified SOB that works pretty well if you are wearing a jacket or a vest. It rides high enough that the barrel will be even with the bottom of your belt. Good craftmanship on the leather and he stands behind his work. You cant miss him at the shows, he dresses like an old cowboy complete with big hat and handlebar moustache.

There is usually a guy at Market Hall who sells a tuckable IWB made of Kydex. They look good but I have not talked to anyone who has used one.
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